Notice of Intended Prosecution Chilterns!! Avoiding correct fare!

[TTLS]

Hello everyone

I was asked to present a ticket on one of my train journeys 4 months ago which I had brought on the train rather than beforehand and this was flagged by an inspection officer who asked why I had bought a ticket after boarding. This is because I had bought a ticket for a shorter distance online before boarding. It was a scary moment in my life having your rights read out to you and I anxiously awaited the notice.

It has arrived now and in the notice it also mentioned they have spotted I may have avoided the correct fare before on Trainline which I admit I have done over the last 10 months. My journey is Mbone to Wruislip but I often got Mbone to Wemb tickets.

I am deeply remorseful and ashamed of having to admit this as the purpose was just to save money for my bills but that is not at the responsibility of chiltern. I take full accountability and want to be able to settle and repay back the difference + fees because I genuinely feel so bad and stupid. Since that day I have bought my tickets at the machine and at the kiosk for all my journeys and will never cheat again.

I would like to ask for advice on how to formulate my response as I haven't been in legal problems before. Should I agree with both statements or should I agree with the first and wait for a response on the latter part?

Thanks for any guidance during this stressful time

T

 

[Haywain]

Why on earth are you buying tickets from a machine when using Oyster or contactless would be cheaper?
This is going to prove rather expensive to resolve.

 

[TTLS]

I had no idea Mbone was contactless but thank you for that

 

[30907]

Welcome to the forum!

You've probably guessed this is a generic letter. Train companies have realised that a lot of people cheat regularly, but buy online which means they can be found out; instead of taking them to court for a one-off offence they can offer to settle privately.

Assuming you don't want to go to court, your reply should be along the lines frequently suggested by our member @Hadders. While you don't need to incriminate yourself, I suggest you should admit that you have short-fared on previous occasions (you don't need to say how many!), and ask if they would consider settling out of court to cover the fares you have failed to pay plus their reasonable admin costs.

You may have to try more than once, as Chiltern were at one time playing "hard to get" (but that may have changed!), but you may end up with an offer made up of N peak-time fares plus £100-odd for costs. It may be quite a sum over 10 months but find a way to pay it!

 

[TTLS]

Welcome to the forum!

You've probably guessed this is a generic letter. Train companies have realised that a lot of people cheat regularly, but buy online which means they can be found out; instead of taking them to court for a one-off offence they can offer to settle privately.

Assuming you don't want to go to court, your reply should be along the lines frequently suggested by our member @Hadders. While you don't need to incriminate yourself, I suggest you should admit that you have short-fared on previous occasions (you don't need to say how many!), and ask if they would consider settling out of court to cover the fares you have failed to pay plus their reasonable admin costs.

You may have to try more than once, as Chiltern were at one time playing "hard to get" (but that may have changed!), but you may end up with an offer made up of N peak-time fares plus £100-odd for costs. It may be quite a sum over 10 months but find a way to pay it!

Thank you for your message. I can imagine it is going to be expensive but that is karma... Not a period I am proud of but getting caught is a blessing in disguise, it was an anxious way to live and I am since better at budgeting.

Okay so if I make them know that I have shorted before I don't have to give the time period even when they probably already have it? I have seen in other pages that chiltern sometimes reply with a spreadsheet for you to explain whilst others have been told directly in the NOIP that they have been suspected of shorting on X day(s).

 

[30907]

Okay so if I make them know that I have shorted before I don't have to give the time period even when they probably already have it? I have seen in other pages that chiltern sometimes reply with a spreadsheet for you to explain whilst others have been told directly in the NOIP that they have been suspected of shorting on X day(s).

I would suggest something like "I have done this on previous occasions in the last year" would be a suitable approach - honest but not specific. See how they respond - either with a spreadsheet or with a figure!

 

[TTLS]

I would suggest something like "I have done this on previous occasions in the last year" would be a suitable approach - honest but not specific. See how they respond - either with a spreadsheet or with a figure!

How does this draft look to you:

Dear ---------

I want to sincerely apologise for travelling without the correct ticket for my intended journey from --------- to ---------- on ----------- and for other instances this past year of dishonest behaviour. I thought I was making a cost-effective decision but in reality, I was holy irresponsible and chose unlawful actions without conceiving the consequences.


I acknowledge that my actions have been unacceptable and I take full accountability for them. I understand that such actions result in a loss of revenue for Chilterns and I feel extremely remorseful and riddled with guilt for doing so. I can assure you that I will never travel without a valid ticket again.

Since this day, I have purchased the correct tickets and will continue to do so as a loyal returning customer. I have also researched ways that I can legitimately make my rail fares cheaper and I qualify for a railcard. I ask humbly for a chance to prove to you that these desperate and selfish actions do not represent who I am.


I want to engage and cooperate with you in this matter to resolve the outstanding fares that I owe and would be grateful if that could be possible and the steps required next to settle this without involving the court system. I am prepared to pay additional fees that have incurred from this process.



Please let me know by return email what I can do next to support you,

Yours Sincerely,
T

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Wholly unacceptable is the phrase you were looking for, not holy, thank god

 

[John R]

The language is rather over flowery and a bit over the top IMO. Just one example “loyal returning customer” to describe paying the correct fare. Really?

And your final line really shouldn’t be talking about you supporting the railway in all of this.

I would make it much simpler and at least a third shorter.

 

[AlterEgo]

How does this draft look to you:

Dear ---------

I want to sincerely apologise for travelling without the correct ticket for my intended journey from --------- to ---------- on ----------- and for other instances this past year of dishonest behaviour. I thought I was making a cost-effective decision but in reality, I was holy irresponsible and chose unlawful actions without conceiving the consequences.


I acknowledge that my actions have been unacceptable and I take full accountability for them. I understand that such actions result in a loss of revenue for Chilterns and I feel extremely remorseful and riddled with guilt for doing so. I can assure you that I will never travel without a valid ticket again.

Since this day, I have purchased the correct tickets and will continue to do so as a loyal returning customer. I have also researched ways that I can legitimately make my rail fares cheaper and I qualify for a railcard. I ask humbly for a chance to prove to you that these desperate and selfish actions do not represent who I am.


I want to engage and cooperate with you in this matter to resolve the outstanding fares that I owe and would be grateful if that could be possible and the steps required next to settle this without involving the court system. I am prepared to pay additional fees that have incurred from this process.



Please let me know by return email what I can do next to support you,

Yours Sincerely,
T

- don’t frame committing crime as “making a cost effective decision” when you admit straight up that those decisions were dishonest. I’m sure you have a better moral compass to know that what you were doing was dishonest before you were caught.

- you don’t “conceive the consequences”; this means you have created them yourself. You “conceive of” the consequences, which means you imagine or form them in your mind.

- wholly not holy.

- the company is called Chiltern, not Chilterns.

- don’t frame it as “prepared to pay”, say something more like “I would be grateful if you would allow me to pay”, as you are at their mercy here.

- don’t close by saying “what I can do next to support you”, this sounds like a line manager signing off a summary email of a negative 1-2-1 meeting. You are not supporting them! They are the party threatening to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

 

[antharro]

Every point made above is absolutely valid; this is not a letter you want to send it its current form.
My edits are in bold and strikethrough, comments are in italics or bold italics.




Dear ---------

I want to sincerely apologise for travelling without the correct ticket for my intended journey from --------- to ---------- on ----------- and for other instances this past year of dishonest behaviour. I thought I was making a cost-effective decision but in reality, I was holy irresponsible and chose unlawful actions without conceiving the consequences. <--- Moving this below.

I acknowledge that my actions have been unacceptable and I take full accountability for them. I understand that such actions result in a loss of revenue for Chilterns <--- no "s" and I feel extremely remorseful and riddled with guilt for doing so. <--- don't overplay this for my actions. I thought I was making a cost-effective decision but in reality, I was holy <--- wholly irresponsible and chose unlawful actions without conceiving <--- considering the consequences. I can assure you that I will never travel without a valid ticket again.

Since this day, I have purchased the correct tickets and will continue to do so. as a loyal returning customer. I have also researched ways that I can legitimately make my rail fares cheaper and I qualify for a railcard. I ask humbly for a chance to prove to you that these desperate and selfish actions do not represent who I am.

I want to engage and cooperate with you in this matter to resolve the outstanding fares that I owe and would be grateful if that could be possible and the steps required next to settle this without involving the court system. I am prepared to pay additional fees that have incurred from this process.

I would be grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter out of court, through a financial settlement or however Chiltern feels is most appropriate.

Please let me know by return email what I can do next to support you,

Yours Sincerely, <--- it's only sincerely if you're writing to a specific person. Otherwise it's...

Yours faithfully,

Firstname Lastname


So removing all the editing markup, that leaves us with:


Dear ---------

I want to sincerely apologise for travelling without the correct ticket for my intended journey from --------- to ---------- on ----------- and for other instances this past year of dishonest behaviour.

I acknowledge that my actions have been unacceptable and I take full accountability for them. I understand that such actions result in a loss of revenue for Chiltern, and I feel extremely remorseful for my actions. I thought I was making a cost-effective decision but in reality, I was wholly irresponsible and chose unlawful actions without considering the consequences. I can assure you that I will never travel without a valid ticket again.

Since this day, I have purchased the correct tickets and will continue to do so. I have researched ways that I can legitimately make my rail fares cheaper and I qualify for a railcard. I ask humbly for a chance to prove to you that these desperate and selfish actions do not represent who I am.

I would be grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter out of court, through a financial settlement or however Chiltern feels is most appropriate.

Yours faithfully,

Firstname Lastname


Now, I have a question - you've stated you quality for a railcard - why haven't you bought it yet? Buying one, and saying as much in your letter would show intent towards paying the correct fare in the future. If you did buy one, then you could use this sentence:

I have researched ways that I can legitimately make my rail fares cheaper and have purchased a ------ railcard.

I'm sure other members of the forum will comment and make their own edits, so it would be worth giving them a chance to do that. The only other thing I can add is that it might be worth you re-writing it or re-wording it using my letter as a template so it sounds like it's coming from you and not me, but that's up to you. Individuality is important; if Chiltern started receiving lots of letters that read and were phrased almost exactly the same, they'd likely catch on!

 

[TTLS]

Every point made above is absolutely valid; this is not a letter you want to send it its current form.
My edits are in bold and strikethrough, comments are in italics or bold italics.




Dear ---------

I want to sincerely apologise for travelling without the correct ticket for my intended journey from --------- to ---------- on ----------- and for other instances this past year of dishonest behaviour. I thought I was making a cost-effective decision but in reality, I was holy irresponsible and chose unlawful actions without conceiving the consequences. <--- Moving this below.

I acknowledge that my actions have been unacceptable and I take full accountability for them. I understand that such actions result in a loss of revenue for Chilterns <--- no "s" and I feel extremely remorseful and riddled with guilt for doing so. <--- don't overplay this for my actions. I thought I was making a cost-effective decision but in reality, I was holy <--- wholly irresponsible and chose unlawful actions without conceiving <--- considering the consequences. I can assure you that I will never travel without a valid ticket again.

Since this day, I have purchased the correct tickets and will continue to do so. as a loyal returning customer. I have also researched ways that I can legitimately make my rail fares cheaper and I qualify for a railcard. I ask humbly for a chance to prove to you that these desperate and selfish actions do not represent who I am.

I want to engage and cooperate with you in this matter to resolve the outstanding fares that I owe and would be grateful if that could be possible and the steps required next to settle this without involving the court system. I am prepared to pay additional fees that have incurred from this process.

I would be grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter out of court, through a financial settlement or however Chiltern feels is most appropriate.

Please let me know by return email what I can do next to support you,

Yours Sincerely, <--- it's only sincerely if you're writing to a specific person. Otherwise it's...

Yours faithfully,

Firstname Lastname


So removing all the editing markup, that leaves us with:


Dear ---------

I want to sincerely apologise for travelling without the correct ticket for my intended journey from --------- to ---------- on ----------- and for other instances this past year of dishonest behaviour.

I acknowledge that my actions have been unacceptable and I take full accountability for them. I understand that such actions result in a loss of revenue for Chiltern, and I feel extremely remorseful for my actions. I thought I was making a cost-effective decision but in reality, I was wholly irresponsible and chose unlawful actions without considering the consequences. I can assure you that I will never travel without a valid ticket again.

Since this day, I have purchased the correct tickets and will continue to do so. I have researched ways that I can legitimately make my rail fares cheaper and I qualify for a railcard. I ask humbly for a chance to prove to you that these desperate and selfish actions do not represent who I am.

I would be grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter out of court, through a financial settlement or however Chiltern feels is most appropriate.

Yours faithfully,

Firstname Lastname


Now, I have a question - you've stated you quality for a railcard - why haven't you bought it yet? Buying one, and saying as much in your letter would show intent towards paying the correct fare in the future. If you did buy one, then you could use this sentence:

I have researched ways that I can legitimately make my rail fares cheaper and have purchased a ------ railcard.

I'm sure other members of the forum will comment and make their own edits, so it would be worth giving them a chance to do that. The only other thing I can add is that it might be worth you re-writing it or re-wording it using my letter as a template so it sounds like it's coming from you and not me, but that's up to you. Individuality is important; if Chiltern started receiving lots of letters that read and were phrased almost exactly the same, they'd likely catch on!

thank you for your feedback! Sorry about my dyslexia...

I have been waiting for several months now for my PIP decision so I can buy the disability railcard.

When addressing this email, am I not responding to the person directly?

 

[notmyrealname]

When addressing this email, am I not responding to the person directly?

Yes of course, if you have someone's name. Often these letters are just signed in the name of a department.

 

[TTLS]

If they have misspelt my surname should I mention it or is it not important?

 

[antharro]

Yeah, you could mention it in the letter. It won't affect things massively but it's good to have these things done correctly!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Yeah, you could mention it in the letter. It won't affect things massively but it's good to have these things done correctly!

Also, don't get your hopes up that it will make the matter go away. If getting someone's name a little (or even completely) wrong was enough to block a prosecution, the courts would find everyone in front of them giving their name as Mickey Mouse even if their real name was Donald Duck - and no one would ever be convicted.

 

[Deafdoggie]

If they have misspelt my surname should I mention it or is it not important?

Personally, I'd keep quiet. This way, if you're convicted, you still get the punishment, but a DBS check won't find it. As it will be in the incorrect name, whilst it might be picked up and corrected anyway, there's no need to make life more difficult for your self.

I have known it to happen a few times, where an incorrect name gets the charge and the actual name gets a clear DBS.

 

[TTLS]

Also, don't get your hopes up that it will make the matter go away. If getting someone's name a little (or even completely) wrong was enough to block a prosecution, the courts would find everyone in front of them giving their name as Mickey Mouse even if their real name was Donald Duck - and no one would ever be convicted.

I'll be signing off with my real spelling anyway

 

[AAP]

Hello @TTLS ! May I ask you if you have any updates? Thank you!

 

[Hadders]

Hello @TTLS ! May I ask you if you have any updates? Thank you!

In line with our forum rules please start your own thread if you are in need of assistance. We only discuss one case in each thread because experience has taught us that no two cases are ever the same, regardless of how similar they might appear to be at first.

 

[TTLS]

Hello @TTLS ! May I ask you if you have any updates? Thank you!

Hi mate. They have said that they are overworked right now and to expect a response from them within 3 months

 

[TTLS]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the penalty for the Railways Act 1889? I have read online that it is level 3 (capped at 1K). Are there any other costs involved in court?

 

[Hadders]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the penalty for the Railways Act 1889? I have read online that it is level 3 (capped at 1K). Are there any other costs involved in court?

You could be sent to prison for up to three months. In practice this will not happen.

You're correct that the fine is a Level 3 fine, which is a maximum of £1,000. The fine is usually discounted by a third of you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity. In addition you will have to pay:

A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
Compensation for the fares avoided
A contribution towards the train companies court costs (the amount they will ask for is normally included with the summons)

 

[TTLS]

You could be sent to prison for up to three months. In practice this will not happen.

You're correct that the fine is a Level 3 fine, which is a maximum of £1,000. The fine is usually discounted by a third of you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity. In addition you will have to pay:

A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
Compensation for the fares avoided
A contribution towards the train companies court costs (the amount they will ask for is normally included with the summons)

Thank you. It was more than I thought then. I thought the courts were only able to prosecute the day in question rather than your entire history

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you. It was more than I thought then. I thought the courts were only able to prosecute the day in question rather than your entire history

Other historic offences may be taken into consideration rather than prosecuted as their own case.

 

[TTLS]

They have given me the chance to settle this outside of court. They have asked me to add a comment on a spreadsheet next to each suspicious shorted journey with the actual journey I took. This is straightforward.


They have also added hypothetical journeys that they believe I did without a ticket at all. I have stayed in London on Fridays a couple times rather than returning to W Ruislip. My journey from M Bone is also gated both ends so I don't get it. For these instances where they are wrong would it be over doing it to provide photographic/geolocation/TFL proof that I was elsewhere or does a comment about my location suffice? I fear I am more likely to be disbelieved than believed, which given the circumstances, makes sense.

 

[AlterEgo]

They have given me the chance to settle this outside of court. They have asked me to add a comment on a spreadsheet next to each suspicious shorted journey with the actual journey I took. This is straightforward.


They have also added hypothetical journeys that they believe I did without a ticket at all. I have stayed in London on Fridays a couple times rather than returning to W Ruislip. My journey from M Bone is also gated both ends so I don't get it. For these instances where they are wrong would it be over doing it to provide photographic/geolocation/TFL proof that I was elsewhere or does a comment about my location suffice? I fear I am more likely to be disbelieved than believed, which given the circumstances, makes sense.

If it is just a couple of times, is it really worth the hassle in trying to correct them about two occasions?

 

[Hadders]

They have also added hypothetical journeys that they believe I did without a ticket at all. I have stayed in London on Fridays a couple times rather than returning to W Ruislip. My journey from M Bone is also gated both ends so I don't get it. For these instances where they are wrong would it be over doing it to provide photographic/geolocation/TFL proof that I was elsewhere or does a comment about my location suffice? I fear I am more likely to be disbelieved than believed, which given the circumstances, makes sense.

If you can show that your journeys to West Ruislip were genuine then there's nothing wrong in explaining this. As noted above, if it's only a couple of journeys then you need to weigh up whether, in the grand scheme of things, it's worthwhile.

 

[TTLS]

If it is just a couple of times, is it really worth the hassle in trying to correct them about two occasions?

They want an honest account otherwise they will go the court route. I do want to be honest about each and every one rather than lie my way out of it. I am asking whether I should provide evidence to prove it or just write in the comments where I was.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2024 ==

If you can show that your journeys to West Ruislip were genuine then there's nothing wrong in explaining this. As noted above, if it's only a couple of journeys then you need to weigh up whether, in the grand scheme of things, it's worthwhile.

The instances are journeys where I have not gone to W Ruislip but they are suggesting I have without any proof to suggest so. They are suggesting I have boarded a train without a ticket at all on more than 1 occasion. That is why I am asking if a comment is enough or whether I would need to have proof of saying so.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I am asking whether I should provide evidence to prove it or just write in the comments where I went.

Practically speaking, the railway want to deal with this fairly quickly from their point of view, so they don't want mountains of documentation if they can avoid it. So when you respond, confirm what journeys you have evidence for, but don't send it in yet. If the railway want to see the evidence then they will be in touch to ask for it.