LNER to pilot removal of Off-Peak tickets

[jayah]

All passenger rail services are socially useful to some extent, I would have thought.

I'm open to the idea there may be some that aren't socially useful enough to justify what they cost, but I'd be intrigued to know which ones you consider to be of no social utility at all?

It is a hair splitting point about zero and negligible social utility, but any service whose subsidy is denying society another service e.g. a bus, that has much greater social value, is a misallocation of resources and by its existence is creating negative utility.

 

[Kite159]

How many people would limit themselves to two of the seven hourly trains to save 40p for the return journey? I wouldn't.

Especially when those services tend to be the shortest of the options, who will want to gamble on being able to board a 2 coach 197 from Manchester compared to being able to board a 10 coach GWR IET service etc.

Particularly after big events at the Millennium stadium when it is usually GWR who run a Newport shuttle using a pair of 387s to allow the TfW services to carry passengers going further afield with the queuing system at Cardiff.

 

[BRX]

Ticket prices for tomorrow morning.

If you want to travel direct, (and don't use split tickets or the Manors workaround) you have one option all morning that doesn't cost the Anytime price of £195.

 

[yorksrob]

The new Government isn't deaf to the world around it.

Will it make a stand for passengers and terminate this "experiment" once and for all ?

Surely the fact that North Eastern passengers are being offered such a bad deal compared to the rest of the country must have bad optics

 

[redreni]

Ah, a timely reminder to book my flights for Gateshead away now that the fixtures are out.

Maybe one of these seasons one will be able sensibly to take a gamble on waiting and seeing if a suitable and affordable seat on a train might become available later...

 

[weeklycommuter]

The new Government isn't deaf to the world around it.

Will it make a stand for passengers and terminate this "experiment" once and for all ?

Surely the fact that North Eastern passengers are being offered such a bad deal compared to the rest of the country must have bad optics

I have sent a message on contact 10 Downing Street calling for this so called pilot to be cancelled and for the reinstatement of the off peak fares London to Newcastle and Edinburgh pointing out that the Labour Party manifesto promised affordable train fares. However people including those who live in the North East of England need to raise this with their new MPs.

 

[yorksrob]

I have sent a message on contact 10 Downing Street calling for this so called pilot to be cancelled and for the reinstatement of the off peak fares London to Newcastle and Edinburgh pointing out that the Labour Party manifesto promised affordable train fares. However people including those who live in the North East of England need to raise this with their new MPs.

Excellent work.

I'm not in the affected area, but I will write to my MP outlining my concerns.

I didn't realise I could write directly to the PM. I will do that instead.

 

[BRX]

However people including those who live in the North East of England need to raise this with their new MPs.

Yes.

 

[yorkie]

I see the forum's site is offering £85 off the LNER price for most of these services.

No wonder LNER are desperate for people to "book direct" and have lots of adverts encouraging people to do so, along with offering cashback etc.

 

[Starmill]

Excellent work.

I'm not in the affected area, but I will write to my MP outlining my concerns.

I didn't realise I could write directly to the PM. I will do that instead.

If you ask your MP to write to the Prime Minister's office, that would be far, far more effective than writing to Sir K yourself. Your MP's office might want to persuade you they should be writing to Louise Haigh instead though.

Obviously you can still contact 10 Downing Street yourself if you want but it'll just get lost in a mountain of letters and emails and likely receive a stock response.

 

[yorksrob]

If you ask your MP to write to the Prime Minister's office, that would be far, far more effective than writing to Sir K yourself. Your MP's office might want to persuade you they should be writing to Louise Haigh instead though.

Obviously you can still contact 10 Downing Street yourself if you want but it'll just get lost in a mountain of letters and emails and likely receive a stock response.

Yes, that sounds like a plan.

 

[CompactDstrxion]

I have written to my new MP explaining the 'Simpler Fares' trial and asking them to raise it with the Transport Secretary to ensure it is ended and Off Peak fares guaranteed. I live on an LNER route and I would suggest anyone who uses LNER services should write to their MPs in a similar manner.

 

[bakerstreet]

Alternatively, just keep the Off peak tickets and stop hard selling inflexible fares as the only option.

(Be interesting to see how this works in practice- both in loadings and staff acceptance of tickets)

https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2024-07-12/lner-lets-passengers-travel-later-or-defer-ticket-so-they-dont-miss-euro-final

A rail service provider is allowing its passenger to travel later or the day after so they don't miss the Euro final.

The London North Eastern Railway (LNER) is allowing passengers booked to travel on one of their services during England Euro final match against Spain on Sunday 14 July to travel later or defer their ticket to Monday 15 July 2024.

The offer applies to anyone already booked to be on an LNER service, at any point after 6pm on Sunday 14 July 2024.

LNER said that anyone who decides to travel on Sunday evening can expect special England football messages on trains, at stations and latest score updates where possible.

 

[AdamWW]

Alternatively, just keep the Off peak tickets and stop hard selling inflexible fares as the only option.

(Be interesting to see how this works in practice- both in loadings and staff acceptance of tickets)

https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2024-07-12/lner-lets-passengers-travel-later-or-defer-ticket-so-they-dont-miss-euro-final

Hmmm.

But when England doesn't get to the final +/- 1 hour flexibility on a ticket is all anyone could ever need?

 

[yorksrob]

Alternatively, just keep the Off peak tickets and stop hard selling inflexible fares as the only option.

(Be interesting to see how this works in practice- both in loadings and staff acceptance of tickets)

https://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2024-07-12/lner-lets-passengers-travel-later-or-defer-ticket-so-they-dont-miss-euro-final

Gimmicky public relations wash at its most disingenuous.

 

[takno]

From the release: LNER said that anyone who decides to travel on Sunday evening can expect special England football messages on trains, at stations and latest score updates where possible.

I suppose they're just testing whether they can find anything more annoying than the "see it, steal it, scarper" campaign.

 

[Hadders]

They are probably just encouraging people to travel at a different time because they know there’s going to be a load of cancellations tomorrow due to a lack of staff.

 

[BRX]

Hmmm.

But when England doesn't get to the final +/- 1 hour flexibility on a ticket is all anyone could ever need?

They are basically highlighting the kind of situation where flexibility is valuable - flexibility that they've taken away.

 

[Haywain]

They are basically highlighting the kind of situation where flexibility is valuable - flexibility that they've taken away.

Except they are actually offering this across the board not just on the routes where the flexible tickets have been withdrawn. It's not defending the trial to give them some credit for giving flexibility to people who did have a choice.

 

[mad_rich]

I have sent a message on contact 10 Downing Street calling for this so called pilot to be cancelled and for the reinstatement of the off peak fares London to Newcastle and Edinburgh pointing out that the Labour Party manifesto promised affordable train fares. However people including those who live in the North East of England need to raise this with their new MPs.

I wrote to my MP (Newcastle, Labour) when the trial was announced asking her to raise it. I only got an auto response, sadly.
I'll push back on it now that they're in Government.

 

[BRX]

Except they are actually offering this across the board not just on the routes where the flexible tickets have been withdrawn. It's not defending the trial to give them some credit for giving flexibility to people who did have a choice.

I should have said "they want to take away" rather than "have taken away".

The point is that they are trying to dismantle the principle of the affordable walk-up railway and this is just one example of the kind of scenario where having public transport that has to be booked in advance, limits people's activities and choices.

 

[bakerstreet]

I should have said "they want to take away" rather than "have taken away".

The point is that they are trying to dismantle the principle of the affordable walk-up railway and this is just one example of the kind of scenario where having public transport that has to be booked in advance, limits people's activities and choices.

Precisely, LNER wish to rid Great Britain of its highly ‘inconvenient’ affordable walk up railway, except when it might suit them to occasionally provide it.

A sort of benevolent dictatorship

 

[yorksrob]

Precisely, LNER wish to rid Great Britain of its highly ‘inconvenient’ affordable walk up railway, except when it might suit them to occasionally provide it.

A sort of benevolent dictatorship

A malevolent dictatorship, surely !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jul 2024 ==

I wrote to my MP (Newcastle, Labour) when the trial was announced asking her to raise it. I only got an auto response, sadly.
I'll push back on it now that they're in Government.

That's a good point. They may feel they have more leverage in Government.

 

[Starmill]

They are probably just encouraging people to travel at a different time because they know there’s going to be a load of cancellations tomorrow due to a lack of staff.

Rail services axed and delayed due to lack of crews​

Federica Bedendo
Role,BBC News, North East and Cumbria
5 hours ago
Rail passengers travelling along the East Coast Main Line have been warned to expect disruption due to a shortage of train crew, with at least 16 services cancelled.

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) said cancelled trains included various services travelling between Edinburgh and London, passing through stations including Newcastle, Darlington, Durham and York.

Several other LNER connections were expected to be delayed or have their route altered.

Disruptions are also affecting passengers elsewhere in the country, travelling on Chiltern Railway and Great Western Railway.

Rail services axed and delayed due to lack of crews

Rail passengers on the East Coast Main Line have been warned to expect disruption on various services.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see the forum's site is offering £85 off the LNER price for most of these services.

No wonder LNER are desperate for people to "book direct" and have lots of adverts encouraging people to do so, along with offering cashback etc.

Given that most tickets are sold on Trainline which does splits, in reality hardly anyone is probably paying these anyway. But some people will be, and that's not OK.

This also hides the effects of the trial - if ALL walk up off peak tickets were removed, fewer affordable splits would exist.

 

[Watershed]

Given that most tickets are sold on Trainline which does splits, in reality hardly anyone is probably paying these anyway. But some people will be, and that's not OK.

This also hides the effects of the trial - if ALL walk up off peak tickets were removed, fewer affordable splits would exist.

Trainline's splits are far from perfect. AFAIK they only offer a maximum of one split point, and often don't seem to offer split returns even where they're cheapest.

 

[PG]

This also hides the effects of the trial - if ALL walk up off peak tickets were removed, fewer affordable splits would exist.

This is worth bringing to the attention of MPs and the PMs office, as I wouldn't put it past LNER to claim that split tickets mean very few are forced to shell out for the high anytime fare, which wouldn't be the case if ALL walk up off peak tickets were removed.

 

[Starmill]

Trainline's splits are far from perfect. AFAIK they only offer a maximum of one split point, and often don't seem to offer split returns even where they're cheapest.

Exactly. They're also really poor at splitting Advance tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly. They're also really poor at splitting Advance tickets.

The splitting engine isn't wonderful (though it did find two I now use quite regularly, including one in the new Project Oval WCML fares which it's bizarre even exists, you'd think they'd have put them in a spreadsheet first to see) but what it's done is made splitting mainstream rather than niche, which means the genie can't go back in the bottle.

 

[D6700]

PR spin from LNER's David Horne to regional politicians yesterday:

Rail North Committee - Monday 15th July 2024

Jump to 32:33-34:20 for the relevant section.

I wonder if David Horne actually believes what he said. I don't, but those in the room may be more easily convinced...