Leeds Trams

[GardenRail]

There seems to be a little momentum gaining speed with the still to be, Leeds Trams. So maybe a new thread dedicated to everything from now to construction. Will be interesting to look back in years to come, whether it actually happened.

Mayor sets out plan for West Yorkshire tram system to better-connect region

Proposals for first phase of mass transit scheme set to be approved by West Yorkshire leaders before submission to the Government

www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk

 

[Nodding Cat Ch]

So many ideas, so little action...

New plan


Old Supertram plan


Trolley Bus plan

Back in the day.

 

[Ken H]

The route to start with is from the city to Lawnswood. Trams or trolleybuses, not sure. I favour trolleybuses cos they can be fitted with batteries to go off the wires for short distances. So maybe extensions to cookridge. Or even save wiring city square.

 

[The exile]

The route to start with is from the city to Lawnswood. Trams or trolleybuses, not sure. I favour trolleybuses cos they can be fitted with batteries to go off the wires for short distances.

So can trams though of course not (intentionally) off the rails. The advantage of a tram network is that it inspires more confidence in where / that the things will be running in the long term. Buses (including trolley buses off the wires) can be introduced and then withdrawn at the drop of a metaphorical hat.

 

[GoneSouth]

Maybe the title for this thread should be West Yorkshire Trams after publication of the latest attempt to introduce trams to the area?

Plans for £2bn West Yorkshire tram system published

The proposals would see two lines built to link Leeds and Bradford, with work potentially starting in 2028.

www.bbc.co.uk

I don’t know the status of the WYCA back in the days of previous attempts to do this, but it does look like the focus is now WY rather than just Leeds in future ?

 

[19Gnasher69]

The route to start with is from the city to Lawnswood. Trams or trolleybuses, not sure. I favour trolleybuses cos they can be fitted with batteries to go off the wires for short distances. So maybe extensions to cookridge. Or even save wiring city square.

This was considered to be the ‘premier’ route for both the erstwhile Leeds Supertram and NGT (trolleybus) schemes as it would have served the hospital, universities, Headingley and student residential areas all the way up to Lawnswood. Alas many good (sic) citizens of LS6 were very much opposed to both proposals.
In the case of the tram this was due to the disruption during construction and for NGT they objected to the posts and catenary (from recollection around Hyde Park).
Presumably they prefer to watch students and the hoi polloi boarding buses as they ferry the kids to the Grammar School in the Range Rover.
I suspect, therefore, that it’s very much on the back-burner. Though I’m pretty certain that WYCA (as successor to the WYPTE) owns a number of properties and areas of land along the route - legacies of the tram scheme.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Looks like WYCA is trying to start small to get the project approved initially, before adding more lines in the future. Whilst slower, if it gets approved, it's far better to have an initially small network that is approved and grows in the future than no transit network at all.

The project is set to be discussed on Thursday at the WYCA meeting, so there'll be lots of news out of the meeting regarding this and the West Yorkshire Bus Franchising.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Mar 2024 ==

Speaking to the Yorkshire Evening Post, Mayor Brabin said: "At the Combined Authority meeting this morning we approved our Strategic Outline Business Case to go before Government and I've promised spades in the ground by 2028.

'It will happen': Mayor makes Leeds trams pledge as funding framework approved

Mayor Tracy Brabin has pledged that a proposed Leeds tram system "will happen" this time.

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk

I don't want to jinx it, but this could actually happen. It all depends on Government approval.

 

[Ben427]

The new routes seem to make far more sense than the Headingley route; that route although massively overcrowded (like alot of Leeds) has decent connectivity and the A660 corridor is not the outlier when it comes to congestion it once was.

Additionally from the point of view of economic deprivation the areas on the Headingley route are not in need of levelling up particularly.

The proposed initial routes imo are strong - Connection to Jimmy's is vital both for staff and patients and the general population - it's one of the most deprived LSOAs in the city from memory.

Likewise White Rose via Elland Road goes through highly deprived areas and Leeds and Bradford connectivity needs far greater improvement.

I'm still dubious as I imagine that the Govt will try to stymie things at OBC and FBC stages; which is typical of the many issues in UK infrastructure funding. The Govt claim to fund local areas through things like the CRSTS funding but still have final say on things. It's not proper devolution of funding and powers, there should be a one pot settlement over a five year period and then leave the local areas to it.

 

[thejuggler]

The 11 week consultation for the proposed WYCA mass transit scheme started today. Plenty on line and numerous drop in events planned.

Two areas being looked at at this stage. Bradford to Leeds link and initial Leeds city centre routes.

 

[yoyothehobo]

The 11 week consultation for the proposed WYCA mass transit scheme started today. Plenty on line and numerous drop in events planned.

Two areas being looked at at this stage. Bradford to Leeds link and initial Leeds city centre routes.

The Bradford-Leeds link is the weird one as it has a good train and regular buses (X6 and 72)

 

[Andyh82]

Probably because Bradford always feel badly done to. The mayor seems closer to the leader of Bradford council than any of the other council leaders

 

[SkinnyFists]

There was a strong streer from the mayor that the first Mass Transit line would be cross-boundary ie not all in Leeds

 

[snowball]

Some stuff here:

Your Voice

Stay informed by joining Your Voice

www.yourvoice.westyorks-ca.gov.uk

The plans for Mass Transit come at an exciting time for our region as we renew our Local Transport Plan. This will inform and shape policies that will drive improvements across all forms of transport for a better connected, sustainable and integrated system that is reliable and affordable, developed with the people of West Yorkshire.


Much has changed since the previous iteration, adopted in 2017, so now is the time to update our plan and ensure it works for us all, now and in the future. The Local Transport Plan is integral to policy development across Mass Transit as it is a statutory document which guides decision making on transport policy and investment across all modes of transport in the region.

Our Local Transport plan will deliver four objectives: boosting productivity, improving health and wellbeing, tackling the climate emergency and enabling inclusive growth. It strengthens the case for Mass Transit. You can also take part in our Local Transport Plan engagement.

Consultation brochure

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ehq-production-europe/1a0a2a4b3169b2741735fdfcd0bf3fa5406ffd5a/original/1720188972/7a628363a5b6b98f27089b251bb689b1_WYMT_phase_one_consultation_brochure.pdf?1720188972

We have followed a robust process to develop
our phase one route options from the Mass Transit
Vision 2040 document. Your feedback from this
consultation will support our ongoing design
development. We will share the updated preferred
route plans with you in a further public consultation
before we submit our application for legal powers
and planning permission to build and operate
phase one.
Phase one will have two lines, the Leeds Line
and the Bradford Line. We are considering three
options for the Bradford Line. For the Leeds Line,
we are considering four options north of River Aire
at Victoria Bridge and three options south of the
River Aire.
Details of these options are set out in the following
pages and represent the different paths each line
could take. Your feedback will help us decide which
route option to choose for each line.

 

[thomalex]

Wow, they're actually proposing to reopen the old Pudsey line

 

[GardenRail]

The Bradford-Leeds link is the weird one as it has a good train and regular buses (X6 and 72)

But they're buses.... People won't leave their cars for a bus. They might do for rail.

 

[bluenoxid]

It will be very interesting to see how they would tackle Pudsey. A lot of homes and many businesses have been built on the formation.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Wish they'd consider tunnels for Leeds city centre. Just think with a network that size it will prove problematic. Although Manchester seems to cope just about in fairness but I just get envy whenever I visit European cities with some element of underground rail (heavy or light).

Appreciate the costs etc. but one can dream.

 

[JD2168]

The Bradford-Leeds link is the weird one as it has a good train and regular buses (X6 and 72)

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Trams replaced the bus services. Before the Sheffield Trams came along in 1994 there was a very frequent bus service along Park Grange Road, after the Trams were introduced the bus service kept reducing until disappearing altogether & the only buses along there now are Tram Replacements & diverted services.

 

[thejuggler]

The 72 bus route for a new tram would simply be a back to the future option. The old Leeds and Bradford trams used to follow that route and terminate in Stanningley.

The route via Pudsey town centre is interesting. It provides a significant upgrade to an area poorly served by public transport, but needs to serve Tyersal rather than use the old railway trackbed which runs across greenbelt.

 

[thenorthern]

I heard Tracy Brabin the Mayor of West Yorkshire on BBC Radio 4's PM yesterday. Obviously she was very positive and enthusiastic about the trams. There was a lot of positive talk about how Labour were pro-public transport which given the cancellation of the Leeds Supertram in 2005 makes me wonder if she is a bit too optimistic.

I would question why Leeds to Bradford is a good route to start given there is already a frequent service between the two cities and it reminds me a bit of how the Midland Metro started of Wolverhampton to Birmingham which again are two cities with an already very frequent railway service.

 

[The exile]

Wish they'd consider tunnels for Leeds city centre. Just think with a network that size it will prove problematic. Although Manchester seems to cope just about in fairness but I just get envy whenever I visit European cities with some element of underground rail (heavy or light).

Appreciate the costs etc. but one can

Not that tunnel stations are always popular. Those in Essen were seen by many locals 25 years ago as a reason not to use public transport later in the evening. If you really want to see off putting tunnel stations/stops - try Belgrade!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Not that tunnel stations are always popular. Those in Essen were seen by many locals 25 years ago as a reason not to use public transport later in the evening. If you really want to see off putting tunnel stations/stops - try Belgrade!

It is a fair point that. I was simply thinking of speed and reliability.

 

[edwin_m]

I would question why Leeds to Bradford is a good route to start given there is already a frequent service between the two cities and it reminds me a bit of how the Midland Metro started of Wolverhampton to Birmingham which again are two cities with an already very frequent railway service.

This route serves significant places in between such as West Bromwich and Wednesbury, which aren't on the rail route. It's unlikely anyone would use the Metro for Birmingham-Wolverhampton journeys. I don't know the Leeds-Bradford area well enough to say, but does something similar apply there?

 

[Bradford PA]

This route serves significant places in between such as West Bromwich and Wednesbury, which aren't on the rail route. It's unlikely anyone would use the Metro for Birmingham-Wolverhampton journeys. I don't know the Leeds-Bradford area well enough to say, but does something similar apply there?

Journeys from east Bradford (eg: Laisterdyke and Thornbury) to Leeds would be quicker by tram. Pudsey is the town of significance between the two cities which is currently off-rail so the route should go via there if built. One advantage being advocated by the Mayor is that the two Bradford termini would both be served. For travel between Bradford and Leeds that is irrelevant as both Bradford termini have fast/frequent direct services to Leeds. There would be no more convenient journeys from Pudsey up the Aire/Wharfe valleys (Skipton/Ilkley) as these connections are readily available from Leeds.

Much correspondence in the Bradford local press suggesting that cross-Bradford (SE/NW) services from Thornbury/Laisterdyke towards Thornton/Queensbury or Toller (hospital) would be more appropriate. These were originally trolley bus services, then motor buses but currently severed due to the recent pedestrianisation of the city centre.

The original plans for the Leeds system also seem to have taken the E/W cross-city approach rather than heading in the Bradford direction.

 

[thejuggler]

Re Forster Square to Interchange links, a left field thought. Forster Square to Shipley becomes a tram route connecting to heavy rail at Shipley.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Re Forster Square to Interchange links, a left field thought. Forster Square to Shipley becomes a tram route connecting to heavy rail at Shipley.

What is this obsession on this forum with making Bradford services worse?

 

[Bradford PA]

What is this obsession on this forum with making Bradford services worse?

Indeed. And hardly fits in with the new extra platform currently being installed at Forster Square.

 

[superkev]

Nice that somethings happeing an last although not keen on parrelling the Leeds Bradford railway.
I was always of the opinion that the Aire Vally is being held back by the difficulties in crossing Bradford and Leeds. A tram or tram train from say Shipley to link with the transpennine around Huddesfield would not be too expensive as lots of dual carriageway and wide roads on the route.
K

 

[yoyothehobo]

Nice that somethings happeing an last although not keen on parrelling the Leeds Bradford railway.
I was always of the opinion that the Aire Vally is being held back by the difficulties in crossing Bradford and Leeds. A tram or tram train from say Shipley to link with the transpennine around Huddesfield would not be too expensive as lots of dual carriageway and wide roads on the route.
K

Is it really though? The time penalty for crossing Bradford on a tram train to Huddersfield would be such that there is a minimal gains compared to just going via Leeds.

The people of the Aire Valley are nearly all travelling to Bradford and Leeds.

The study needs to identify the flows that have a lot of people and currently poorly catered for

 

[Tetchytyke]

The route via Pudsey town centre is interesting. It provides a significant upgrade to an area poorly served by public transport, but needs to serve Tyersal rather than use the old railway trackbed which runs across greenbelt.

Looking at the consultation, they're clearly trying to big up the option via Laisterdyke, Pudsey, and Wortley. It'll be interesting how they serve Pudsey, I can only assume it'll be through on-street running.

I'd agree about serving Tyersal, it's an estate that has long been forgotten about by Leeds City Council because of its geography.