£16000 For A Football Special

[GingerSte]

I would imagine that the best time to make these enquiries would have been before the playoffs started. They would then have had time to make their enquiries and get the best price (eg other operators or rolling stock).

They could also reduce their risk by charging £40-45 per head instead of the break-even price. They could also charge more for first class for the posh Posh lot. It has already been said that this is cheaper than the existing options, and could have been advertised during the matches (particularly in the match programmes).

A quick look at the match report for Posh's last match gives an attendance of 11,920 (source: BBC). Assuming, say, 9000 of them were Peterborough fans, then you only need 5% of these for a 464 seat train. With a competitive price and direct journey, this is very do-able IMO.

So I would argue that the risks are quite low, but they are still there. Part of the problem with the railways is that they don't do risk (financial) well. Perhaps there is room for some entrepreneur to make themselves a few grand out of one weekend.

 

[northwichcat]

eg other operators or rolling stock.

I'm not sure if any other operators could run a Peterbrough-Manchester more competitively. I think if operators run passenger services outside their usual operating area they have to pay a premium, if they are permitted to do so at all.

 

[merlodlliw]

Sorry, you are blaming EMT for not taking the risk themselves? Given that the fixture was only confirmed when the Posh beat MK Dons a few days ago?

I suppose I am, but note FGW" are putting on specials from Swansea for the play off on Monday, similar time span.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not sure if any other operators could run a Peterbrough-Manchester more competitively. I think if operators run passenger services outside their usual operating area they have to pay a premium, if they are permitted to do so at all.

You are correct, ATW cried foul to other bidders for the WAG Express operating in Wales & Borders franchise.


Bob

 

[samj1]

Huddersfield-Manchester trains on Sunday should be quite entertaining considering there will be about 30,000 fans going, and the stock being 2 car 156s or 3 car 185s

 

[northwichcat]

Huddersfield-Manchester trains on Sunday should be quite entertaining considering there will be about 30,000 fans going, and the stock being 2 car 156s or 3 car 185s

What's to stop you getting a 153 on the Northern service and a 170 on the TPE service?

Seriously, in another thread someone posted that TPE will be running some 6 car formations on Sunday.

The Northern service is more difficult as it's one of the few services where 4 carriage trains cause problems. Northern could run corridor linked 4 car 150/2 or/and 156 formations and use local door operation where's there a platform length issue.

It may sound stupid but do Northern know there's something going on in Manchester on Sunday? They quite often seem to rely on voluntary rail user groups telling them when they expect services to need strengthening.

 

[Greenback]

I suppose I am, but note FGW" are putting on specials from Swansea for the play off on Monday, similar time span.

Bob

I believe (read it in the local paper) that there is also a charter train running.

Over 20000 Swansea fans went to Wembley for the 1994 Mickey Mouse Cup Final, I would think that 30000 + will make it this year!

 

[N Levers]

£16000... so maybe I won't be organising a London - Penzance HST LAN party then... :cry:

 

[YorkshireBear]

Midland mainline put on a HST from derby to sheffield for football fans only when we played them away in FA CUP a few years ago (i think it was pre EMT i am not sure it was definitely a MML livery) i presumed they did it themselves as everyone was allowed on with the standard return between derby and sheffield.

£16,000 to peterbrough is not alot of money they arnt exactly a poor league 1 club, considering what some of the players and staff(manager) are on id say definitely £16,000 upfront for loyal fans is nothing!!!!! disgraceful in my opinion. If my local team SWFC had turned this down they would fo been getting very snotty emails of me.

 

[yorkie]

Off Peak Return is £66.90 using the times quoted...

...which only a mug would pay! Total rip-off.

Peterborough - Grantham £8.70
Grantham - Nottingham £7.50
Nottingham - Manchester £19.50
Total = £35.70

That's more reasonable.

 

[BigVince76]

A 56 seater coach for that sort of trip would cost around £750-£850. (This is based on trips of similar distance I have had to organise.). So hiring buses is much cheaper, but I would much rather take a train!

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Info supplied by FTPE for Sunday (not a word from Northern)


Access to Huddersfield station and train services for football bound passengers will be controlled by a queuing system, which will be operated on a first come first served basis. Reservations are no longer available although those already booked will be honoured where possible.

Huddersfield station will be an alcohol free zone and trains to Manchester will be operated as dry trains, meaning no alcohol can be purchased or consumed on board.

 

[ivanhoe]

A 56 seater coach for that sort of trip would cost around £750-£850. (This is based on trips of similar distance I have had to organise.). So hiring buses is much cheaper, but I would much rather take a train!

Which is why £16000 is such a rip off. Either this is profiteering at worst or McNulty was right about railway costs. Coach is £16 per ticket , train is £35 per ticket. No contest is it really?

 

[MCR247]

Would have to pay petrol costs for a coach?

 

[merlodlliw]

I believe (read it in the local paper) that there is also a charter train running.

Over 20000 Swansea fans went to Wembley for the 1994 Mickey Mouse Cup Final, I would think that 30000 + will make it this year!

Huntos in the Premier league, now that's thought.

Bob

 

[Greenback]

Which is why £16000 is such a rip off. Either this is profiteering at worst or McNulty was right about railway costs. Coach is £16 per ticket , train is £35 per ticket. No contest is it really?

Coaches have always been cheaper than trains. The economies of coach hire are fundamentally different from hiring a compelte train.

McNulty is right about railway costs being too high. But he hasn;t looked in the right place to amke the sort of savings that are required. A large amount of the additional costs can be found in the way the industry was structured on privatisation.

 

[Thomas6187]

All services from Huddlersfield-Manchester Victoria are meant to be 4 car set on Sunday, and Northern will also be running Football Specials from Manchester Piccadilly-MUFC halt on Sunday.

 

[BigVince76]

Would have to pay petrol costs for a coach?

No the figures I quoted would include everything.

 

[northwichcat]

Would have to pay petrol costs for a coach?

It'd be diesel usually and the operator would be able to purchase paying less tax than someone filling up their car, similar to train operators.

 

[ivanhoe]

Coaches have always been cheaper than trains. The economies of coach hire are fundamentally different from hiring a compelte train.

QUOTE]

Not a difference of £19 per seat though.A reasonable price would be £25 per seat. 8 coaches with 8 drivers is cheaper than one train ? You have got to admit that it does not make economic sense.

 

[northwichcat]

8 coaches with 8 drivers

A London based bus/coach driver earns around £26,000 - outside of London it's much lower than that. The median train driver salary is reported as being around £40,000 with some reported to be earning up to £70,000 after overtime. This means coach drivers are effectively half the cost of train drivers and that's before you take in to account the guard/conductor on the train.

 

[Jeff Worsnop]

Let's look at the facts (Said in a ridiculous Lloyd Grossman voice lol)

They would have to pay to following for supplying a service
Traincrew (x2) maybe a second traincrew for the return trip.
Stock.
Fuel
Servicing and cleaning of the stock before/after
Network Rail pathways

Plus overhead costs such as planners, traffic controls etc.

Blimey. Who would have thought that.

 

[northwichcat]

I think from now on anyone who posts broken quotes should be fined £1 which goes to the pony sanctuary to help all those poor ponies who aren't allowed on trains.

 

[Jeff Worsnop]

I think from now on anyone who posts broken quotes should be fined £1 which goes to the pony sanctuary to help all those poor ponies who aren't allowed on trains.

Eh?
Whats broken quotes?

 

[northwichcat]

Eh?
Whats broken quotes?

Look at posts 51 and 49.

 

[N Levers]

Eh?
Whats broken quotes?[/QUOE]


^
|
THAT

 

[tbtc]

I think from now on anyone who posts broken quotes should be fined £1 which goes to the pony sanctuary to help all those poor ponies who aren't allowed on trains. [/QUOTE

Great idea

()

 

[ivanhoe]

Let's look at the facts (Said in a ridiculous Lloyd Grossman voice lol)

They would have to pay to following for supplying a service
Traincrew (x2) maybe a second traincrew for the return trip.
Stock.
Fuel
Servicing and cleaning of the stock before/after
Network Rail pathways

Plus overhead costs such as planners, traffic controls etc.

Blimey. Who would have thought that.

And coaches have no overheads?
You're defending a high cost railway. Fine, but if you think that £15k is good value, then National Express and Megabus have a fine future ahead of them!

 

[northwichcat]

And coaches have no overheads?

It's worth noting that most National Express franchises operate coaches under 5 years old so there would be quite a bit of money lost every few years with buying new coaches and selling 5 year old ones.

 

[ivanhoe]

It's worth noting that most National Express franchises operate coaches under 5 years old so there would be quite a bit of money lost every few years with buying new coaches and selling 5 year old ones.

I'm sorry but you have lost me here. Care to explain?

 

[jon0844]

The county council around here had a rule that buses needed to be no older than THREE years, although I think that has been dropped as part of the need to cut costs.

If most bus operators intend to have a young fleet, where do/can they sell them on?