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Alcohol restrictions on European trains, and how do you define a quiet coach?

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Hoofhearted

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My son and I have just returned from a gruelling 15 day rail tour of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland Slovakia and Hungary. Due to the relatively cheap cost of rail travel in these countries we chose to book first class, when available. However, we were taken by surprise to discover that alcohol is banned on trains throughout the three Baltic states, and alcohol on Polish trains can only be consumed in the restaurant car, and only if purchased at the restaurant car. There were no issues in Slovakia and Hungary. We travel a lot by train throughout Europe and it is noticeable that the alcohol ban is spreading. Two years ago we had an uncomfortable confrontation with a ticket inspector on a Romanian train, when he marched me up to the toilet area to pour our cans down the sink. We've also noticed in the UK that alcohol is banned in Scotland and Northern Ireland. The alcohol ban appears to be spreading, and I can only assume that it must be due to drunkenness and assaults on railway staff, which I can quite understand. We had no problem with the ban, and adhered to it.

On another note, having booked first class on Latvian trains, whilst adhering to the no alcohol rule, my son and I were conversing whilst watching the scenery pass by leaving Riga. Next thing, the man sitting next to my son told us to stop talking, as this was the quiet coach! We were gobsmacked! Now our understanding of quiet coach in the UK, is no playing of music and movies, without headphones, no use of mobile phones, and no boisterous behaviour in that coach. But to ban a general conversation is simply ludicrous, in my opinion. Anyway, tension escalated, and the Train Manager was called. After a long discussion he offered us two seats in second class, whilst retaining first class privileges (tea/snacks etc). He was excellent in fact, and admitted that the rule is simply ridiculous, but must be enforced if someone complains.

I would pose this question - What if a family of four, with two very young children, choose to purchase first class tickets, and throughout the journey the children were screaming and bawling, as they do? How would that situation be resolved?
 
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Bletchleyite

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I would pose this question - What if a family of four, with two very young children, choose to purchase first class tickets, and throughout the journey the children were screaming and bawling, as they do? How would that situation be resolved?

If your children are "screaming and bawling" throughout journeys you need to think about where/when you are taking them and how you might work to improve that behaviour (as is the role of a parent). Perhaps a car would be more sensible?

Fortunately, most children I find behave well on journeys, and those who are "screaming and bawling" throughout a journey are in the minority. The only problem I tend to have with them is parents who think it's OK to play TV and game music out loud rather than simply giving them a pair of headphones to listen to it. I have far more issues with rowdy adults on trains than children, as a whole.

But back to your original point, is all of First Class a quiet area on those trains, or was the "non-quiet" part just full? It seems odd to only have quiet first class, because many business passengers will wish to make phone calls, and while UK businesses typically won't pay for 1st these days so it's mostly a leisure and self-upgrade product now I don't think that's as true elsewhere in Europe where the uplift is a lot more modest.
 

DanielB

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The Netherlands has an alcohol ban in trains on Kings Day, even buying alcohol at Kiosks on stations is not possible that one day.

Regarding the quiet area: we've got a "stiltecoupé" in ICs, where it should be silent (so no conversations or music). Quiet would translate to "rustig" in Dutch, whilst "stilte" is "silence" in English.
Some recently refurbished stock, as well as ICNG, has a working area as well which is a bit similar to a quiet coach in the UK. Though that coach doesn't have clear rules.
Particularly in ICNG the marking of the zones is not very clear. There are hardly any stickers indicating the zone, instead this is done with coloured light: orange is where you are free to talk, blue is the quiet (working) area and purple the silent area.
 

kkong

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We've also noticed in the UK that alcohol is banned in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Alcohol isn't banned in Scotland, only on ScotRail services.

You may continue to drink alcohol on LNER, Avanti, TransPennine Express, Caledonian Sleeper and - when they can be bothered running their trains in Scotland - CrossCountry.

I expect the ban on ScotRail services to be lifted before too much longer, because it is widely ignored.
 
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berneyarms

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Alcohol is banned on all Irish Rail services as well, except alcohol purchased on the Enterprise.
 

kingston_toon

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Interesting thread! Is there a definitive list of countries in Europe (or regions within countries / operators etc) where alcohol is banned? One of my favourite pastimes is travelling by train across Europe while sipping a few local craft beers but I wouldn't want to accidentally break the rules where the position isn't entirely clear.

Albania - couldn't find any rules but no-one seemed to mind
Germany - always seems fine on IC / ICE, mostly fine on DB Regio but banned in some regions, banned on some other operators such as Metronom
Poland - as noted, banned except in PKP IC restaurant cars when purchased there (assume Polregio is banned?)
Italy - never had a problem, seems legitimately OK
Switzerland - never had a problem
Austria - never had a problem
Sweden - appears to be the same as Poland i.e. only in bistro cars and when purchased there
Denmark - apparently OK / tolerated?
Latvia / Lithuania / Estonia - as noted, banned
Ireland - as noted banned
Scotland - as noted, banned on ScotRail services but widely ignored
 

deltic

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Can add
London - all TfL services including London Overground
Merseyrail
 

James H

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If I wanted to chat to my companions, personally I would not sit in the quiet coach
 

185143

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Interesting thread! Is there a definitive list of countries in Europe (or regions within countries / operators etc) where alcohol is banned? One of my favourite pastimes is travelling by train across Europe while sipping a few local craft beers but I wouldn't want to accidentally break the rules where the position isn't entirely clear.

Albania - couldn't find any rules but no-one seemed to mind
Germany - always seems fine on IC / ICE, mostly fine on DB Regio but banned in some regions, banned on some other operators such as Metronom
Poland - as noted, banned except in PKP IC restaurant cars when purchased there (assume Polregio is banned?)
Italy - never had a problem, seems legitimately OK
Switzerland - never had a problem
Austria - never had a problem
Sweden - appears to be the same as Poland i.e. only in bistro cars and when purchased there
Denmark - apparently OK / tolerated?
Latvia / Lithuania / Estonia - as noted, banned
Ireland - as noted banned
Scotland - as noted, banned on ScotRail services but widely ignored
Sweden is the same as Ireland's Enterprise. Drink where you like, but it has to be from the Bistro. Well, when I travelled from Gothenburg to Copenhagen there were certainly people going to the bistro and bringing beers back.
 

Hoofhearted

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Many thanks for all your responses. Just a couple of points. Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian train are all three car DMU's/EMU's. First class takes up one half of a coach, about 20 seats, and ALL SEATS come under the quiet zone. So if you travel 1st class you are, without exception, in the quiet zone. So (James H) if you want to chat with companions, you're gonna have to book 2nd class. With regard to alcohol being banned on trains, don't you think the simple answer would be to put some kind of a sticker on each window (like a no smoking sticker) stating that alcohol is prohibited? As for rowdy kids/babes in arms on trains - nothing can be worse than that scenario on an aircraft - and it occurs all too often!
 

JB_B

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In Finland it's OK but again only for purchase and consumption in the buffet car. ( I was politely called back when I attempted to take a glass of wine back to my partner.)

In Bulgaria I was told that by a local that it would probably be fine as long as you're not annoying anyone but it does seem to be against the rules.
 

deltic

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Renfe Spain seems to have banned drinking alcohol on trains in 2022
 

Merseysider

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Had no issues having a couple of beers at my seat yesterday on Ouigo España (Barcelona - Madrid). They do sell alcohol in the buffet car.
 

Hoofhearted

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Thanks for all your responses everyone. Yesterday evening I was wondering what impact a total alcohol ban on all trains in the UK would have? Bearing in mind, on Saturdays in particular, what effect that would have on the thousands of football fans travelling north, south, east, west to follow their teams. Alcohol consumption by travelling football/rugby fans in England and Wales on trains at the weekends is huge. Your thoughts please?
 

deltic

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Problem is that it is unenforceable without huge resources being devoted to it. The one that shocked me was a train about 10am that was full of already tanked up race goers on the way to Cheltenham festival.
 

Bletchleyite

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Thanks for all your responses everyone. Yesterday evening I was wondering what impact a total alcohol ban on all trains in the UK would have? Bearing in mind, on Saturdays in particular, what effect that would have on the thousands of football fans travelling north, south, east, west to follow their teams. Alcohol consumption by travelling football/rugby fans in England and Wales on trains at the weekends is huge. Your thoughts please?

For most it would be a minor annoyance, but completely unnecessary because most trains don't have problems involving alcohol consumption.

A blanket ban on carrying would be a genuine problem because some car-free people do their shopping by local train, particularly on systems like Merseyrail.
 

Ringo2112

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DB has a small section up front on some of their ICE trains for quiet zone...I even took a picture of it on my trip. One sign says "psssstt", the other had a phone with a red line through. The phone sign means no talking on cell phone and the "psssttt" wording may mean no talking at all. It's great for solo travelers. I sat there a couple times on my trip.
 

iknowyeah

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DB has a small section up front on some of their ICE trains for quiet zone...I even took a picture of it on my trip. One sign says "psssstt", the other had a phone with a red line through. The phone sign means no talking on cell phone and the "psssttt" wording may mean no talking at all. It's great for solo travelers. I sat there a couple times on my trip.
I have to admit I did watch a live football match on my laptop with the sound on in this area once, however for the entire duration of the game my carriage and the next one were empty, and naturally I'd have turned it off if anyone came in
 
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Renfe Spain seems to have banned drinking alcohol on trains in 2022
Can you provide a source for that please? I can categorically tell you alcohol is sold on their high speed trains. Do you maybe mean it was banned specifically for a time in 2022, as post covid restrictions included closing the cafeterías on trains and hence they sold no alcohol?
 

Cloud Strife

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The Polish alcohol ban is certainly a good thing, given the problems with alcohol abuse that this country has.

Poland - as noted, banned except in PKP IC restaurant cars when purchased there (assume Polregio is banned?)

Yup, banned, although in practice no-one is going to bother you if you don't make a show out of it. Drinking alcohol is banned in public here, so it's just an extension of that.
 

Capybara

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Problem is that it is unenforceable without huge resources being devoted to it. The one that shocked me was a train about 10am that was full of already tanked up race goers on the way to Cheltenham festival.
Racegoers are as bad as, if not worse than, other groups. Travelling through York before or after a race meeting can be a very unpleasant experience.

And my experience at travelling in the quiet areas on German trains is that the locals are no more observant than British people are. There's almost always an entitled business person making a 'phone call there as there is in the UK.
 
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In the US, Amtrak allows alcohol consumption. In coach it has to have been bought from the cafe. However if you have a sleeper compartment you can bring your own alcohol but have to consume it in your room. You cannot bring it to the dining car. I believe VIA in Canada has a similar policy.
 

kkong

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Renfe Spain seems to have banned drinking alcohol on trains in 2022

I travelled Malaga-Madrid and return on the AVE in October 2023 in "Elige Confort" class.

I brought my own beer on board both ways and nobody made any comment to me about it.
 

geoffk

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I've commented elsewhere that in Denmark the quiet coach appears to require "no talking". A mate and I were talking quietly and got told off by a lady passenger.

I can't comment on alcohol bans but wonder if different rules would apply on charter trains, e.g. steam specials.
 
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AdamWW

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Poland - as noted, banned except in PKP IC restaurant cars when purchased there (assume Polregio is banned?)

I presume so on Polregio from what I saw on a recent journey.

There was someone next to me drinking from a can of beer. He hid it under his T-shirt when the guard appeared and said it was coca cola.

The guard seemed quite happy to take his word for it...
 

sk688

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Despite the ban on Irish Rail, the Rail Security officers on DARTs usually let people finish a can rather than confiscating it immediately, unless the passenger is disurptive/rowdy.
 

rvdborgt

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Despite the ban on Irish Rail, the Rail Security officers on DARTs usually let people finish a can rather than confiscating it immediately, unless the passenger is disurptive/rowdy.
So... they effectively just collect the empty cans/bottles? One could see that as an additional service :)
 
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