End in sight for the ASLEF dispute: Offer now made

[800001]

Will drivers who have left TOCs automatically get this, or will they need to apply do we think?

Normally they would have to individually approach the TOC to ask for the back dated pay, that’s my understanding.

 

[physics34]

Will it be 6k or 9k backpay? It should be 9k because of two years of the 2022 payrise backdated and one year of the 2023 payrise backdated.... but im hearing its not calculated like that?

 

[Peter0124]

Why would it??

It's for 2022, 23 and 24. ScotRail have been getting increases in that time.

Bizarre you're not happy with that.

I'm unhappy at the current shambolicness of Scotrails service provision. Which I may well have misunderstood as being part of a pay strike. Which is why I was unhappy this deal only applied to England. My mistake if that's the case.

EDIT - Tbh, I have no idea what the problem is with Scotrail right now.

 

[800001]

Will it be 6k or 9k backpay? It should be 9k because of two years of the 2022 payrise backdated and one year of the 2023 payrise backdated.... but im hearing its not calculated like that?

Well it all depends which TOC you work for and what salary you are currently on!

 

[Mcrdvr]

I'm unhappy at the current shambolicness of Scotrails service provision. Which I may well have misunderstood as being part of a strike, which is why I was unhappy this deal only applied to England.

Scotrail is devolved to the Scottish Government so separate from I.R. issues in England.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've been in Scotrail for about a year and walked into 2 pay increases in about 3 months, looking at threads in here, the English TOCs have been without a wage rise in 3 years, so it's probably going to work out the same (give or take a % or 2) when the Scottish Government get the finger out and give the unions what they are asking for.

The Scottish government has just announced cuts in public sector budgets to fund pay increases (a consequence of the UK Chancellor's fiscal policy).
Louise Haigh now has that problem for the rail industry in England.

Scotland scraps universal winter fuel payments for pensioners

The Scottish government says it has been left with "no choice" following cuts by the UK Chancellor.

www.bbc.co.uk

She said Barnett consequentials, provided via UK government spending, would not cover the pay rises and that about a third of the total would have to come from departmental cuts.
“It will mean that public bodies have to constrain their spend in a way I wish was not the case but we have no other choice at this point in time," she said.

 

[Class 317]

As a passenger I'm glad a fair offer has been made and probably will be accepted which can help everyone move forward in a more positive manner.

The only thing that concerns me is it leaves a couple of things unresolved.

The issue of Sunday being outside the working week at some toc leaves whether the service runs subject to the number of Drivers who are wish to work overtime and therefore subject to short notice disruption.

Also it kicks the can down the road in sorting out the widely different T&C's and pay levels between different TOC's which only stores up problems for the future.

Very glad through if this puts the recent couple of years behind us

 

[JamesT]

I'm unhappy at the current shambolicness of Scotrails service provision. Which I may well have misunderstood as being part of a pay strike. Which is why I was unhappy this deal only applied to England. My mistake if that's the case.

EDIT - Tbh, I have no idea what the problem is with Scotrail right now.

You are correct that Scotrail staff are undertaking industrial action in relation to a pay dispute. But as transport is devolved, negotiations for them are with the Scottish government and entirely separate to those referred to in this thread with the UK government which is responsible only for trains in England.

 

[scrapy]

Will drivers who have left TOCs automatically get this, or will they need to apply do we think?

Yes. The deal includes leavers (Apparently one of the finer points negotiated today)

 

[JLX5]

As a passenger I'm glad a fair offer has been made and probably will be accepted which can help everyone move forward in a more positive manner.

The only thing that concerns me is it leaves a couple of things unresolved.

The issue of Sunday being outside the working week at some toc leaves whether the service runs subject to the number of Drivers who are wish to work overtime and therefore subject to short notice disruption.

Also it kicks the can down the road in sorting out the widely different T&C's and pay levels between different TOC's which only stores up problems for the future.

Very glad through if this puts the recent couple of years behind us

It's really nice to see a passenger so understanding and supportive of the situation, and for that I really do thank you.

As for Sundays this will most likely become a thing that TOCs discuss on an individual basis and, as such, Sundays will be more likely to become part of the working week for those who it isn't already. Of course this will depend on it being accepted by the members of the specific TOC.
Don't forget that those TOCs that already have Sunday inside or committed has reached that agreement under talks on a TOC by TOC basis as has been the case for years and years before this mess started.

 

[greatkingrat]

Yes. The deal includes leavers (Apparently one of the finer points negotiated today)

That doesn't necessarily mean it will be paid automatically though. Particularly for people who left some time ago, the company will need to confirm things like bank details are still correct, so I expect it will be a manual process.

 

[dk1]

Yes. The deal includes leavers (Apparently one of the finer points negotiated today)

Excellent news for those guys.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2024 ==

That doesn't necessarily mean it will be paid automatically though. Particularly for people who left some time ago, the company will need to confirm things like bank details are still correct, so I expect it will be a manual process.

I doubt they are in much of a hurry to receive the windfall as most were never totally sure they’d even receive it.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Fantastic news for everyone! A long time in coming; hopefully the rest of the Labour government will prove as beneficial for the railways.

 

[geoffk]

They’ll find it again by being able to run, a full, normal, reliable timetable without cancellations caused by drivers not wanting to work overtime because of the dispute?

Good news if the deal is accepted, but there remains the heavy reliance on overtime just to run the timetable. One step at a time, I suppose.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

As a passenger I'm glad a fair offer has been made and probably will be accepted which can help everyone move forward in a more positive manner.

The only thing that concerns me is it leaves a couple of things unresolved.

The issue of Sunday being outside the working week at some toc leaves whether the service runs subject to the number of Drivers who are wish to work overtime and therefore subject to short notice disruption.

Also it kicks the can down the road in sorting out the widely different T&C's and pay levels between different TOC's which only stores up problems for the future.

You can see that becoming an issue when all passenger operators have been nationalised and there has to be a case to come up with a harmonised set of T&Cs that at least all new drivers move onto at some point in the post GBR world.

 

[dk1]

You can see that becoming an issue when all passenger operators have been nationalised and there has to be a case to come up with a harmonised set of T&Cs that at least all new drivers move onto at some point in the post GBR world.

But what’s the point in just new drivers even if the unions allow it? Will be a drop in the ocean and still will only be a fraction of the establishments 20 years from now. No quick fix to be had anywhere.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

But what’s the point in just new drivers even if the unions allow it? Will be a drop in the ocean and still will only be a fraction of the establishments 20 years from now. No quick fix to be had anywhere.

Got to start somewhere as it would be a huge challenge and cost to retrospectively harmonise the myriad of T&Cs that now exist.

 

[En]

"The rail industry is more complicated than the NHS. For a start, the government isn't the employer, TOCs are."

Don't think so. Doctors surgeries are run as independent businesses that happen to receive (insufficient) funding. There are 100s of these; there are not 100s of TOCS.

also NHS trusts are not ' the government' any more than the Direct/ 'last resort' operating companies are

 

[Peter0124]

Scotrail is devolved to the Scottish Government so separate from I.R. issues in England.

You are correct that Scotrail staff are undertaking industrial action in relation to a pay dispute. But as transport is devolved, negotiations for them are with the Scottish government and entirely separate to those referred to in this thread with the UK government which is responsible only for trains in England.

Thats true, I was just replying to the guy who assumed I was unhappy about something else.

I clicked on this thread (not reading any other post) in the hope that it applied to Scotrail and posted a question about that straight away so I am slightly disheartened to find that Scotrail isn't involved in the (obviously) good news down south.

 

[dk1]

Got to start somewhere as it would be a huge challenge and cost to retrospectively harmonise the myriad of T&Cs that now exist.

I pity the poor roster clerk trying to unravel that Sunday list

 

[PupCuff]

I think you'd struggle to find anyone in the industry who thinks this is a bad deal. It's a positive sign that it will be replicated for RMT represented grades and likewise the 2024/25 pay negotiations for TSSA staff.

People can frame it how they want but when the industry is in a place where ROSCOs milk it for all it's worth, suppliers can get away with charging TOCs utterly ridiculous sums for things like USB cables and "toilet out of use" stickers, fare evaders are still being found evading five figure sums each year and it's cheaper to pay a dedicated manager to deal with the 'no win no fee' personal injury claims than it is to just let them run their course, a staff pay deal is quite honestly just a drop in the ocean.

 

[JLX5]

I pity the poor roster clerk trying to unravel that Sunday list

They might be striking next

 

[Bald Rick]

But what’s the point in just new drivers even if the unions allow it? Will be a drop in the ocean and still will only be a fraction of the establishments 20 years from now. No quick fix to be had anywhere.

Given the current demographics, it will very quickly make a difference.

 

[PLY2AYS]

You didn't see my previous post regarding the "subsidy", did you? Or you did but you're being deliberately obtuse.

I didn’t, can you link it?

People like this don’t bat an eyelid when the directors of TOCs raised their own wages (uncertain on figures) but certainly higher tens of percentages than the backdated figures that drivers are to vote on.

And no one batted an eyelid on the millions of shareholder dividends that TOCs have given out, year on year.

Either it’s taxpayer money, or it isn’t. And if people didn’t raise the point about “subsidy” then, why do they raise it now?!

 

[dk1]

Given the current demographics, it will very quickly make a difference.

You are far more sure of that than I am. Suppose it depends on what part of the country you are in and how quickly driver turnover is. Also how agreeable local unions are to any sort of change. Interesting times to say the very least.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2024 ==

I can’t even think or care about anything else beyond the elation felt from teatime this evening. It won’t be something going forward that has any impact on me personally anyway.

 

[HappyDriver99]

Can anyone tell me how backpay is calculated? Say you're on 55k and it rises to 65k....is that simply 10k backpay but taxed? Never been in this kind of situation so it's all new to me!

 

[najaB]

Can anyone tell me how backpay is calculated? Say you're on 55k and it rises to 65k....is that simply 10k backpay but taxed? Never been in this kind of situation so it's all new to me!

Speak with your union rep and/or payroll team. They can give you the precise details.

 

[HappyDriver99]

Speak with your union rep and/or payroll team. They can give you the precise details.

 

[BenjaminButton]

Does anyone know if the back pay/pay increase will apply to Trainee Drivers?

 

[Osian85]

Iv been wondering the same and as the detail says ‘Fully backdated’ iv worked it out ‘compounded’, ie 5% of your 2022 salary, owed for three years, then 4.75% of your ‘new and uplifted’ 2023 salary, owed to you for two years and then 4.5% of your ‘new and uplifted’ 2024 salary owed for one year, and them all up then take away the usual deductions (tax, NI, pension).
This is if course for the base figure and everyones figure will have differences for RDW etc.
What Im not sure about is the rates of the deductions to be applied; whether its within each year or all from this year. It will take some working out!!