Chiltern Railway Fare Evasion

[scoobydoo189]

Hi all. I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice or support. I was on a Chiltern railway train today and was asked for my ticket and 16-25 railcard. I usually take trains regularly to London for university however haven’t been asked for my railcard in months. Anyway I went to get my railcard up and it said it had expired in March which I was not aware of. I then realised my ticket was invalid and tried to quickly buy a full price one but the inspector caught me doing this and asked my details. I told him the truth and renewed my railcard there and then but he was not satisfied. When he took my details he saw that I had used my discount in the period between Mar 2024 and today which made all those tickets invalid. Then said I would receive a letter in the mail. After reading all the posts on here I can now see I have a rather dire situation on my hands. I have counted 50 times I have used the discount in this short period of time prior to which I had a valid railcard which I also showed the ticket inspector.

I will be seeking legal counsel as unfortunately I believe I do not know enough about this issue to defend myself. I am happy to pay anything to avoid a criminal conviction.

My questions are what is the likelihood of me receiving a conviction if I fully comply and admit to everything and pay in full? What is the best way to deal with this situation? And has anyone had a similar situation with a positive outcome? Or negative one?

 

[ikcdab]

Welcome to the forum. If this goes to court then you will be found guilty and you will be convicted. You have no defence or mitigations and no way to talk your way out of it. You may employ a solicitor, but that will not change the situation. So if it gets that far, then you should plead guilty and take the consequences.
Your aim at the moment is to avoid it going to court and acheiving an out of court settlement.
The railway companies have differing approaches on this. Some almost always offer a settlement, others do not. It also depends on the severity of the fare evasion. You have evaded fares on 50 occasions, so that may count in the more severe category.
Others will come along and advise on Chiltern's attitude to settlements.
A solicitor isnt really necessary, but if you are determined to avoid a court case, then a solicitor may be able to negotitate a settlement better than you might on your own - but it will cost you a high three figure sum to do so.
That's up to you: if you go it alone and fail to get a settlement you might kick yourself for not employing a solicitor, but there is no guarantee that a solicitor can do any better than you can on your own and with advice from this forum.
Best thing for now is to wait for the letter to arrive, post it here (suitable anonymised) and take it from there.
And in the meantime there are two other things to do:
1. continue reading the threads on here
2. start saving - you will be required to pay for those evaded fares. You havent said what stations you were travelling between, but when costed at the undiscounted anytime single rate, the costs can soon add up.

 

[Haywain]

I will be seeking legal counsel as unfortunately I believe I do not know enough about this issue to defend myself. I am happy to pay anything to avoid a criminal conviction.

A solicitor will cost you in the region of £500 to £800 over and above the money that the train company will ask for to settle the matter (around £150 plus the fares you should have paid).

What is the best way to deal with this situation?

You can deal with this yourself, with our help. It isn't complex and doesn't require legal expertise. However, it will require the money to pay a settlement when it is offered by the train company.

And has anyone had a similar situation with a positive outcome?

You will find dozens of threads on here with cases similar to yours where the posters have had an outcome that didn't involve going to court. Whether having to pay a lump sum in settlement is actually a positive outcome is debatable!

 

[ikcdab]

This thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/chiltern-prosecution-intention-notice-letter.271026/
suggests that "Chiltern are normally prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and they are within their rights to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to."

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Just to confirm what happens next - Chiltern will write to you in the next few weeks. The ketter will use quite threatening language and say that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you. The letter will ask for your version of events before they decide how to proceed.

Chiltern will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this will be the outcome but it is what we typically see. If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of all the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase in addition to an admin fee of around £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered, payment in installments isn't allowed.

When it arrives, post a copy of Chiltern's letter in this thread (do redact any personal details and case reference numnbers) along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.

 

[scoobydoo189]

Hi all. Thank you for the welcome and messages. I 100% do not disagree this was my mistake all I want to do is get an out of court settlement. But I’m just thinking with a large amount like 50 are the chances slimmer of me getting a settlement. Are there people who have had more who have received a settlement? When I had a look at all the posts on the different forums they never really stated if similar cases achieved out of court settlements.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2024 ==

A solicitor will cost you in the region of £500 to £800 over and above the money that the train company will ask for to settle the matter (around £150 plus the fares you should have paid).

You can deal with this yourself, with our help. It isn't complex and doesn't require legal expertise. However, it will require the money to pay a settlement when it is offered by the train company.

You will find dozens of threads on here with cases similar to yours where the posters have had an outcome that didn't involve going to court. Whether having to pay a lump sum in settlement is actually a positive outcome is debatable!

Thank you that’s very reassuring. I just don’t want to go to court I just want to pay the fees required. Could you direct me to a case with an outcome which is similar

 

[ikcdab]

Clearly the answer is yes. The chances of getting a settlement with 50 cases of evasion is less than with a one-off. What we don't know is where the threshold lies and what criteria the railway co will apply.
You are looking for reassurances that no-one on here can give. You just need to do the footwork and read past threads to get an idea.

 

[scoobydoo189]

I completely understand. Thank you for all the help. I was wondering if you could give me a rough idea of the cost so I can be prepared should I be given a settlement. So if there are 55 instances and travel is from High Wycombe station to London Marylebone roughly how much would I be looking at? I assume they charge peak times?

 

[Haywain]

I completely understand. Thank you for all the help. I was wondering if you could give me a rough idea of the cost so I can be prepared should I be given a settlement. So if there are 55 instances and travel is from High Wycombe station to London Marylebone roughly how much would I be looking at? I assume they charge peak times?

The Anytime Day Single is currently £17.20, so base your calculations on that.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I completely understand. Thank you for all the help. I was wondering if you could give me a rough idea of the cost so I can be prepared should I be given a settlement. So if there are 55 instances and travel is from High Wycombe station to London Marylebone roughly how much would I be looking at? I assume they charge peak times?

Are the "55 instances" single journeys or return journeys?

 

[scoobydoo189]

Return

 

[John R]

So 110x17.20 then, which is £1,892.

 

[scoobydoo189]

So 110x17.20 then, which is £1,892.

Thank you so much.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2024 ==

Does anyone know how long it usually takes to get the letter in the mail?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2024 ==

Does anyone know how long it usually takes to get the letter in the mail?

I suspect a few weeks. Hard to know for sure.

 

[scoobydoo189]

Hi all, I just wanted to share because I don’t see many people with resolved cases messaging back on here but I thought I would. I decided to go ahead with the solicitor and he managed to resolve the issue within 48 hours! After I provided him with a spreadsheet of all the journeys which were now invalid he contacted Chiltern before they even sent a letter to me and gave me a settlement amount which was hefty, just shy of 2 grand, but worth the sacrifice. If anyone else is considering this path I 100% recommend, I’m far less stressed now. Thank you to everyone on this thread for helping navigate this initially, I really appreciate it.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know. While it’s generally not necessary to use a solicitor they can often obtain a speedier outcome, albeit it at a cost.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all, I just wanted to share because I don’t see many people with resolved cases messaging back on here but I thought I would. I decided to go ahead with the solicitor and he managed to resolve the issue within 48 hours! After I provided him with a spreadsheet of all the journeys which were now invalid he contacted Chiltern before they even sent a letter to me and gave me a settlement amount which was hefty, just shy of 2 grand, but worth the sacrifice. If anyone else is considering this path I 100% recommend, I’m far less stressed now. Thank you to everyone on this thread for helping navigate this initially, I really appreciate it.

Would it be helpful to future site users if you were able to say what solicitors firm you used? Of course understand if you don't want to share that info.

 

[scoobydoo189]

Not a problem. I used Manak Solicitors. Brilliant service, resolved within 3 days. They offer three levels of service depending on how much you want to be contacted throughout the process. I went for the most basic. The main concern for me was that I cannot afford a criminal conviction as I am a healthcare professional. And as the number of invalidated fares was so high, after speaking to people in this forum, I realised I was in quite a bad situation and doubted if I would be able to resolve this myself. This was just my situation however, I’m sure in other less serious situations a solicitor may not be necessary. He was able to resolve it before I ever got a single letter in the mail. So if you want it out of sight and out of mind and are dealing with Chiltern I do recommend them.

 

[jcfm]

Not a problem. I used Manak Solicitors. Brilliant service, resolved within 3 days. They offer three levels of service depending on how much you want to be contacted throughout the process. I went for the most basic. The main concern for me was that I cannot afford a criminal conviction as I am a healthcare professional. And as the number of invalidated fares was so high, after speaking to people in this forum, I realised I was in quite a bad situation and doubted if I would be able to resolve this myself. This was just my situation however, I’m sure in other less serious situations a solicitor may not be necessary. He was able to resolve it before I ever got a single letter in the mail. So if you want it out of sight and out of mind and are dealing with Chiltern I do recommend them.

This is really interesting to know I am waiting for letter similar and I haven’t slept or eaten since it happened sick with worry as if it goes to court I will lose my job, mine is with temslink but hoping your solicitor could help with my case to get it put to bed so I can put this out of mind! Are you able to share the cost of solicitor?

 

[WesternLancer]

This is really interesting to know I am waiting for letter similar and I haven’t slept or eaten since it happened sick with worry as if it goes to court I will lose my job, mine is with temslink but hoping your solicitor could help with my case to get it put to bed so I can put this out of mind! Are you able to share the cost of solicitor?

You could start your own thread as people may be able to advise you if it can be sorted without using a solicitor.
But you can always ring the solicitor for a quote on price without instructing them to proceed with the case until you decide if you want legal help. But you may be looking at c£500 solicitor charges from my recollections of other cases on here.

 

[some bloke]

I cannot afford a criminal conviction as I am a healthcare professional.

The requirement to disclose criminal behaviour may cover more than convictions - not surprisingly, given that regulators and employers are interested in fitness to practice more generally, not just technicalities of what the legal outcome was.

For example the BMA says this:

"A criminal conviction applies to all convictions, cautions, reprimands and final warnings. This includes minor misdemeanours, such as:

• spent sentences, cautions, and any matters currently under investigation
• any conviction, caution or investigation in relation to a criminal offence ...
• What you must do
  Inform the GMC without delay if, anywhere in the world, you:
  • formally admit to committing a criminal offence (for example by accepting a caution)"

Declaring a criminal conviction

Find out what constitutes a criminal conviction, what you must do if you have committed a criminal offence, and why you must disclose this information as a doctor.

www.bma.org.uk

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The GMC says something which other regulators may echo:

"If you are not sure whether or not to tell us ... you should ask for advice from a defence body or medical association or from us."

https://www.gmc-uk.org/professional-standards/professional-standards-for-doctors/reporting-criminal-and-regulatory-proceedings-within-and-outside-the-uk/reporting-criminal-and-regulatory-proceedings-within-and-outside-the-uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2024 ==

There might also be overarching requirements from the regulator and/or employer to disclose matters that may be relevant to fitness to practise.

 

[scoobydoo189]

This is really interesting to know I am waiting for letter similar and I haven’t slept or eaten since it happened sick with worry as if it goes to court I will lose my job, mine is with temslink but hoping your solicitor could help with my case to get it put to bed so I can put this out of mind! Are you able to share the cost of solicitor?

Hi. I know it makes you sick with worry. The solicitor cost me £600 and then the settlement was just shy of £2000. So it was a lot but obviously the settlement amount will depend on the activity on the account I think plus a fine. I hope this all gets resolved for you. Let me know if I can help with anything else.

 

[Hadders]

It is very helpful to know the outcome of cases and some approximate figures for solicitor costs and settlement figures.

Just to manage expectations, a solicitor cannot guarantee that a settlement will be offered, the train company is entitled to prosecute in the Magistrates Court if they want to.

What a solicitor can often do is ‘fast track’ a case and possibly present your mitigation in a more professional way than you may feel able to do yourself.

Clearly, if you do use a solicitor then you have to pay their fee, in addition to the settlement fee (if you don’t get offered a settlement you’ll still have to pay their fee!)

Now the technical bit, before anyone else corrects it! A settlement figure is normally the cost of the fares avoided plus an admin fee added by the train company to cover the cost of their investigation. It is not a fine - only a court can impose a fine as a punishment if you are found guilty (or plead guilty). So if you want to keep things out of court you don’t want to pay a fine, you want to pay an out of court settlement.