End in sight for the ASLEF dispute: Offer now made

[manmikey]

Former Tory rail minister admits failure on reform – praises train staff and unions

Huw Merriman: ‘These people work hard and should be shown more respect’

www.independent.co.uk

The article is behind a pay wall with no option to view for free unless agreeing to tracking and intrusive non essential cookies and the media accuse rail staff of dodgy practices!

 

[Doctor Fegg]

The article is behind a pay wall with no option to view for free unless agreeing to tracking and intrusive non essential cookies and the media accuse rail staff of dodgy practices!

Last time I looked, there was no option to travel for free on the railways either?

 

[officewalla]

I just did the mathematics, it's
(2022 Base Salary x 0.05) x ( 1 + 1.0475 + 1.0475x1.045 )
based on post 237 above

A sanity check would be that if the first year is 5% of the base, the next two years are slightly more, the total should be a bit more than 15%, which it is.

Actually is 14.94% rounded to 2 dp.

 

[Krokodil]

Last time I looked, there was no option to travel for free on the railways either?

That's not a universal view!

 

[Starmill]

No surprise from Merriman. The impression at the time (on any part of his brief) was that he was bound by collective responsibility to defend whatever idiotic policy the PM had thought up this week, even when he knew that it was stupid.

Clearly a Minister's salary and other perks was more meaningful to him than the truth, though.

 

[father_jack]

Former Tory rail minister admits failure on reform – and praises train staff and unions​

Huw Merriman: ‘These people work hard and should be shown more respect’​

Simon Calder
Travel Correspondent.

The last Tory rail minister has made a surprise intervention in the row over train driver pay – praising railway staff and saying he understands why Labour ministers chose to “cut a deal” with the train drivers.
Last week the new transport secretary, Louise Haigh, reached an agreement with the train drivers’ union, Aslef, for a “no-strings” pay rise worth 15 per cent over three years.

Members will begin voting on the offer, for which union leaders have urged acceptance, on 28 August. A large majority is expected in favour of the deal.

But within 48 hours of reaching an agreement, Aslef announced fresh strikes by train drivers working for the state-owned East Coast Main Line operator LNER.


The train drivers’ union says drivers will strike each weekend until 10 November following “a breakdown in industrial relations, bullying by management, and persistent breaking of the agreements by the company”.

Tory leadership candidate James Cleverly accused the Labour government of being “played by its union paymasters”.

But in a series of Sunday evening posts on X (formerly Twitter), Huw Merriman expressed respect for rail staff and their unions.

He wrote: “In my time as rail minister, I was fortunate to meet and work with those who crewed trains and stations, managed the railway and worked with pride for their passengers.

“I’m sorry that I wasn’t able to reach an agreement with all unions who were on strike.”

Mr Merriman was appointed rail minister by Rishi Sunak in October 2022, three months after the train drivers began their industrial action.

The government insisted any wage rise was contingent on radical changes to working practices, while the union demanded an unconditional pay increase. Aslef says the last time he met them for talks was in January 2023.

The former minister wrote: “Having tried to bring in workplace reform to improve rail services and, holding my hands up, failed, I can understand why the new government have decided to cut a deal to end the uncertainty and move on with goodwill.

“Whilst it’s legitimate to debate the terms of the deal, the demonisation of train drivers and those on board and at stations, who carry out a difficult and skilled job for the safety of passengers, is completely unfair. These people work hard and should be shown more respect.

“Despite reports, I had a good working relationship with the rail union leaders and recognised their role representing members.

“I hope, by sticking my head up and accepting my part, others can show our rail workforce the respect and recognition they deserve and focus on the future.”

Mr Merriman stood down as MP for Bexhill and Battle at the July 2024 election. His seat was held by the Conservatives.

 

[InkyScrolls]

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one!

 

[43066]

What are people’s thoughts on whether the previous years’ settlements include back pay for rest day work undertaken? A question that has been doing the rounds where I am…

Some have pointed out that the wording of the offer letter refers to back pay on employee base salary and salary linked
contractual allowances. So that pretty unambiguously covers things like London weighting, DI/mentor uplifts etc. However would it cover RDW which is non contractual in nature?

Hopefully it does, as that will potentially make a few thousand difference for those who’ve done a fair bit. That would also seem to be in the spirit of settling the dispute “as normal”, as appears to have been the intention with this offer.

 

[12LDA28C]

What are people’s thoughts on whether the previous years’ settlements include back pay for rest day work undertaken? A question that has been doing the rounds where I am…

Some have pointed out that the wording of the offer letter refers to back pay on employee base salary and salary linked
contractual allowances. So that pretty unambiguously covers things like London weighting, DI/mentor uplifts etc. However would it cover RDW which is non contractual in nature?

Hopefully it does, as that will potentially make a few thousand difference for those who’ve done a fair bit. That would also seem to be in the spirit of settling the dispute “as normal”, as appears to have been the intention with this offer.

I've been told it does include overtime and RDW payments. Effectively the hourly rate goes up by the agreed percentage backdated to the relevant anniversary date(s) so backdated pay owed is calculated on all hours worked at the new hourly rate(s).

 

[43066]

I've been told it does include overtime and RDW payments. Effectively the hourly rate goes up by the agreed percentage backdated to the relevant anniversary date(s) so backdated pay owed is calculated on all hours worked at the new hourly rate(s).

Thanks. (Even more) brilliant news if so .

Hopefully all will be revealed at the forthcoming webinars.

 

[RexMundi]

I wonder what amount of drivers will be putting their notice in as soon as back pay is sorted

 

[dk1]

I wonder what amount of drivers will be putting their notice in as soon as back pay is sorted

You’ll probably get a some who have waited but it’s really not that much. In most cases the back pay will only be a few thousand.

 

[Zerothebrake!]

There are supposedly ten or twelve at XC Birmingham waiting to put their notice when the deal comes through - and they are mostly ex West Mids so only have to give a month's notice so the situation isn't going to improve anytime soon.

 

[380101]

I wonder what amount of drivers will be putting their notice in as soon as back pay is sorted

The back dated pay rises for 22 and 23 may get taken into consideration for pension figures, but probably not the 2024 portion of the deal. Salary figures for the railway pension scheme are updated once a year in July, so any 2024 increase in Salary will not reflect in the pension system until July 2025 unless any special arrangements have been made between the DfT and RailPen.

 

[Turtle]

You’ll probably get a some who have waited but it’s really not that much. In most cases the back pay will only be a few thousand.

ONLY a few thousand! Plenty of people in this country would be happy with the "only."

 

[43066]

I've been told it does include overtime and RDW payments. Effectively the hourly rate goes up by the agreed percentage backdated to the relevant anniversary date(s) so backdated pay owed is calculated on all hours worked at the new hourly rate(s).

This has now been officially answered in the affirmative. Good news -worth thousands to many, so I suspect they would have founded hard to get the deal over the line otherwise!

Definitely a show of good faith from the government.

 

[TreacleMiller]

ONLY a few thousand! Plenty of people in this country would be happy with the "only."

Most people across the country have had that "few thousand" already over the past 5 years.

 

[Topological]

Most people across the country have had that "few thousand" already over the past 5 years.

Those with the same salary and same percentages would have done, others a lot less so.

I do appreciate it is not a battle for hearts and minds, but most people are not paid what drivers are paid and therefore even higher percentage increases do not correspond to the same "few thousand".

Most of us also had to change our conditions in this time too, but let's ignore that side of it as I know it gets ASLEF backs up.

It might just be nice to recognise that not everyone has things as comfortable as ourselves (in whatever role we have).

 

[TreacleMiller]

I do appreciate it is not a battle for hearts and minds, but most people are not paid what drivers are paid and therefore even higher percentage increases do not correspond to the same "few thousand".

Most of us also had to change our conditions in this time too.

Respectfully, id have to disagree.

Purely based on average pay, rounded to the nearest thousand from government statistics.

£36000 in 2019
£42000 in 2023

That's around a 16.5% increase. You'll note drivers have taken less than this at around 15% but had to wait 5 years to get it.

The average worker in the UK has definitely has had that "few thousand" year on year over the 5 years ASLEF has been on strike.

The majority of drivers are in the 40% bracket too so theyll be keeping significantly less of that rise than the average worker. Some will now move into that bracket and will pay 40% on income that had they had it in 2022 or 2023 they might have still been under the bracket.

Thanks to the cost of living, brought on in part by the charlatan that was Lizz "Trust me" Truss people haven't noticed.

As for negotiating your own pay, if you're agreeing to additional responsibilities beyond your role that should be negotiated separately from inflation. I've done it when working for a private employer. My old role now pays around £10,000 a year more than it did when I left it in 2022. That's a 23% increase.

 

[Topological]

Respectfully, id have to disagree.

Purely based on average pay, rounded to the nearest thousand from government statistics.

£36000 in 2019
£42000 in 2023

That's around a 16.5% increase. You'll note drivers have taken less than this at around 15% but had to wait 5 years to get it.

The average worker in the UK has definitely has had that "few thousand" year on year over the 5 years ASLEF has been on strike.

The majority of drivers are in the 40% bracket too so theyll be keeping significantly less of that rise than the average worker. Some will now move into that bracket and will pay 40% on income that had they had it in 2022 or 2023 they might have still been under the bracket.

Thanks to the cost of living, brought on in part by the charlatan that was Lizz "Trust me" Truss people haven't noticed.

As for negotiating your own pay, if you're agreeing to additional responsibilities beyond your role that should be negotiated separately from inflation. I've done it when working for a private employer. My old role now pays around £10,000 a year more than it did when I left it in 2022. That's a 23% increase.

My apologies.

Taking the numbers from the Guardian in June 2022: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-and-what-they-earn-who-are-the-real-fat-cats

Train drivers​

Drivers, who were not (except at Greater Anglia) part of the national or London dispute this week, are normally in the Aslef union and earn more than other workers.

The average salary is £59,000 across the national rail operators. Drivers are on different pay scales at different companies, but the regional variations on the mainland range from £51,000 in Wales to £71,000 for drivers on LNER’s East Coast trains. Most do some overtime, with Sunday shifts usually voluntary.

Drivers on the French SNCF-owned Eurostar earn more, at £77,000 a year.

A driver for London Underground (who, again, were not on strike) earns an average £56,000, according to Aslef.

So if I am using the wrong numbers then please accept my apologies.

However, I imagine many use the number from the Guardian when forming opinions and then there are many more who use papers that are less union sympathetic.

 

[mpthomson]

Most people across the country have had that "few thousand" already over the past 5 years.

I think you'll find that 'most people' have had a lot less than that...

 

[dk1]

ONLY a few thousand! Plenty of people in this country would be happy with the "only."

That's not the point I was making.

 

[TreacleMiller]

My apologies.

Taking the numbers from the Guardian in June 2022: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-and-what-they-earn-who-are-the-real-fat-cats



So if I am using the wrong numbers then please accept my apologies.

However, I imagine many use the number from the Guardian when forming opinions and then there are many more who use papers that are less union sympathetic.

Those numbers are accurate.

I don't see what point you're making that's separate to my own?

Yes, drivers at the very high end of that pay bracket will be getting a significant one off payment. The majority of those driving dont earn 71-77k. Taxed at 40% Drivers at the lower end (Circa 42k) will be getting a lot less of that backpay.

Average non rail wages have risen year on year, drivers wages have not. That is the long and short of it. Those that have had inflation linked rises, or just below it, have had a portion of their cost of living crisis covered through increased income. Drivers did not.

And let's not forget a household with two 36k a year earners in 2019 and 42k in 2023 will bring in more income than a single earner on 71k.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2024 ==

I think you'll find that 'most people' have had a lot less than that...

Some more, some less.

If you want to pull up the median income to suggest otherwise, that's fine. I'm simply looking at average wage growth and stating the obvious - 15% growth.

 

[Topological]

Those numbers are accurate.

I don't see what point you're making that's separate to my own?

Yes, drivers at the very high end of that pay bracket will be getting a significant one off payment. The majority of those driving dont earn 71-77k. Taxed at 40% Drivers at the lower end (Circa 42k) will be getting a lot less of that backpay.

Average non rail wages have risen year on year, drivers wages have not. That is the long and short of it. Those that have had inflation linked rises, or just below it, have had a portion of their cost of living crisis covered through increased income. Drivers did not.

And let's not forget a household with two 36k a year earners in 2019 and 42k in 2023 will bring in more income than a single earner on 71k.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2024 ==


Some more, some less.

If you want to pull up the median income to suggest otherwise, that's fine. I'm simply looking at average wage growth and stating the obvious - 15% growth.

Most professions do not have an average salary of £59,000 (which is the Guardian 2022 number). Those on £42,000 are still well above the majority of UK residents.

ONS 2023 data: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan...bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2023

• Median gross annual earnings for full-time employees was £34,963 in April 2023, which is a 5.8% increase over the £33,061 in April 2022.

I used median, not the lower end of the distribution (which would be the fair comparison with the £42,000 figure) because in my posts I use "majority". So as you can see the Majority of people saw nothing like what drivers are getting.

No matter how it cuts, the amount of money received by most non-drivers is lower than the amount received by drivers. Whilst there would have been sympathy on the terms and conditions, your argument about the value of the back pay versus what others got holds little water.

The timing is a different issue, but the additional money received by drivers IS higher than most have received. As mentioned, most of us could not resist the accompanying terms and conditions changes.

Your post said the "few thousand", not the percentage.

 

[TreacleMiller]

No matter how it cuts, the amount of money received by most non-drivers is lower than the amount received by drivers. Whilst there would have been sympathy on the terms and conditions, your argument about the value of the back pay versus what others got holds little water.

The timing is a different issue, but the additional money received by drivers IS higher than most have received. As mentioned, most of us could not resist the accompanying terms and conditions changes.

Your post said the "few thousand", not the percentage.

Im not sure I'm arguing that payments made to drivers isn't above the national average or median pay? Of course it is.

It's certainly fair to use median pay. From the same ONS source -

2019 - £30,378
2023 - £34,963

Once again that's a 15% increase. That is also certainly a "a few thousand" over that period, even factoring in tax. Certainly not enough to dent the near 30% increase in the cost of living.

Comparable to drivers? No.

The point I'm making, and perhaps not making clearly, is that the rise drivers are currently in line to receive is no better or worse than those that the overwhelming majority of workers, private or public in the UK. The difference being here, ours is coming in a lump.

The suggest "most people haven't had a few thousand" as a previous poster has stated is a bit of a stretch. The value of that rise however, is a completely fair post.

Collectively, we've all got poorer.

 

[Topological]

Im not sure I'm arguing that payments made to drivers isn't above the national average or median pay? Of course it is.

It's certainly fair to use median pay. From the same ONS source -

2019 - £30,378
2023 - £34,963

Once again that's a 15% increase. That is also certainly a "a few thousand" over that period, even factoring in tax. Certainly not enough to dent the near 30% increase in the cost of living.

Comparable to drivers? No.

The point I'm making, and perhaps not making clearly, is that the rise drivers are currently in line to receive is no better or worse than those that the overwhelming majority of workers, private or public in the UK. The difference being here, ours is coming in a lump.

The suggest "most people haven't had a few thousand" as a previous poster has stated is a bit of a stretch. The value of that rise however, is a completely fair post.

Collectively, we've all got poorer.

That does clear it up a lot.

However, it is absolutely correct to say that the number of £s that drivers receive is higher than that obtained on the median UK salary, never mind the lower end of the UK distribution. It would be better to stick with percentages when meaning percentages. (My profession did not get 15%).

Drivers have also got their deal without any adjustment to terms and conditions. So whilst we can argue the rights and wrongs of the specific conditions, there will be many who had their conditions changed post Covid who would have been happier if their conditions had not been changed. For that reason there will be a lot of raw nerves on all sides.

As a passenger it is good that the dispute is over and I do hope that your LNER dispute is resolved soon (Thanks again for the excellent explanation on that thread).

 

[TreacleMiller]

That does clear it up a lot.

However, it is absolutely correct to say that the number of £s that drivers receive is higher than that obtained on the median UK salary, never mind the lower end of the UK distribution. It would be better to stick with percentages when meaning percentages. (My profession did not get 15%).

Drivers have also got their deal without any adjustment to terms and conditions. So whilst we can argue the rights and wrongs of the specific conditions, there will be many who had their conditions changed post Covid who would have been happier if their conditions had not been changed. For that reason there will be a lot of raw nerves on all sides.

As a passenger it is good that the dispute is over and I do hope that your LNER dispute is resolved soon (Thanks again for the excellent explanation on that thread).

All fair points.

Can I ask what conditions of your job have changed post covid?

I noticed a lot of "creep" in my role. It became expected, if not contractually agreed, for me to to Zoom calls etc outside of normal working hours - without pay - as a result of working 2 days a week from home during the first months of the pandemic. I was in an apparent "key worker" role and was not furloughed either. That creep, combined with low wage growth for an increase in position resulted in me joining the railway.

Speaking of which, and not to want to ignite any tension, a large part of the country did have a significant paid break from the workplace for a significant period of time. Something else, perhaps, to consider in why those rises have been so shallow. Productivity dived.

 

[Minilad]

There are supposedly ten or twelve at XC Birmingham waiting to put their notice when the deal comes through - and they are mostly ex West Mids so only have to give a month's notice so the situation isn't going to improve anytime soon.

Many of whom are talk the talk but not walk the walk types.
I'd be surprised if more than 1 or 2 actually go ahead with it

 

[Topological]

All fair points.

Can I ask what conditions of your job have changed post covid?

I noticed a lot of "creep" in my role. It became expected, if not contractually agreed, for me to to Zoom calls etc outside of normal working hours - without pay - as a result of working 2 days a week from home during the first months of the pandemic. I was in an apparent "key worker" role and was not furloughed either. That creep, combined with low wage growth for an increase in position resulted in me joining the railway.

Speaking of which, and not to want to ignite any tension, a large part of the country did have a significant paid break from the workplace for a significant period of time. Something else, perhaps, to consider in why those rises have been so shallow. Productivity dived.

Zoom and Teams have a lot to answer for. Especially their apps.

 

[uglymonkey]

Gilded cage springs to mind. Average pay in the UK is £42,210. (ONS)