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ASLEF - LNER drivers to strike every Sat & Sun for 3 months from 31 Aug - Now called off

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Carlisle

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LNER are trying to run the service for the benefit of the DfT and the now ex-government.
Given current industry structure & level of government subsidies, a TOC has little option other than to follow directions of whoever the current elected government happens to be.Perhaps the old BR or a future GBR might’ve been/could potentially be different.
 
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Bikeman78

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Passengers may well desert LNER if they continue to be more expensive, less comfortable and less reliable than flying.
Their rubbish ticketing system is enough to put me off, never mind several strikes. Thankfully I have no reason to use them.
 

Krokodil

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Given current industry structure & level of government subsidies, a TOC has little option other than to follow directions of whoever the current elected government happens to be.
Well yes, but the poster I quoted believed that LNER acts in the interests of its passengers, rather than political whims.
 

Horizon22

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Surely 'spare shift' drivers who have not been pre-allocated a turn of duty are still required to attend their home depot at the necessary book-on time. They are not sitting at home getting paid whilst waiting for a phone call when someone goes sick. 'Spare' drivers and drivers who are off on Rest Day are two totally separate things.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Indeed. It wouldn’t really be useful to have on-call staff at home as they’d still have to get to depot/station to be productive as opposed to just being at the relevant site.

It was briefly used during Covid but I think barely anyone got called in because by the time you’d needed the crew member it would have been an hour or so before they could get there which would have been pointless.
 

PLY2AYS

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That wasn't what I asked
Do you want a service or not, is what it boils down to.

Either you want the right number of drivers, or you want the service to fail? What does ‘who pays for it matter’? How about the current shareholders?
 

En

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Staff liable to be called at home should be receiving a call allowance as standard.
on-call / call-out payments is where you are required to respond within a specific time frame - whether that is by returning a call , logging into a system or actually going to a place of work... If there is no compulsion to respond there is no 'on call' allowance payable
 

Moonshot

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Do you want a service or not, is what it boils down to.

Either you want the right number of drivers, or you want the service to fail? What does ‘who pays for it matter’? How about the current shareholders?
Which shareholders would these be considering LNER is operated by the state?
 

ainsworth74

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Which until recently was one that could only see the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
I admire your optimism in thinking that HM Treasury would change the habits of decades or even centuries just because a new Government is in town!
 

Moonshot

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I admire your optimism in thinking that HM Treasury would change the habits of decades or even centuries just because a new Government is in town!
Indeed.......you really do have to wonder why a lot of people on here seem not to understand a relatively simple point. Extra costs require covering either by the taxpayer or the farepayer. An influx of drivers to abolish permanent overtime will in reality be costly to the taxpayer.....
 

sikejsudjek

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Whilst I agreed with the strike for a decent pay rise, I think this further strike is going to be totally counter productive. Labour will have to demonstrate to the public that they can say 'no' to the unions, and this will be seen in government as an ideal opportunity to do just that.
 

TreacleMiller

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Whilst I agreed with the strike for a decent pay rise, I think this further strike is going to be totally counter productive. Labour will have to demonstrate to the public that they can say 'no' to the unions, and this will be seen in government as an ideal opportunity to do just that.

So, staff should be "bullied" and the subsequent poor service should run until the end of time?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Indeed.......you really do have to wonder why a lot of people on here seem not to understand a relatively simple point. Extra costs require covering either by the taxpayer or the farepayer.

Absolutely it does. The issue was that the strikes themselves had a wider economic impact which likely lost more tax revenue than the pay rise "cost" the taxpayer.

An influx of drivers to abolish permanent overtime will in reality be costly to the taxpayer.....

Training is certainly expensive. The figure is around 100k per from memory. OT payments are certainly cheaper than hiring new staff which exactly how the railways have walked into a driver shortage.
 

Moonshot

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So, staff should be "bullied" and the subsequent poor service should run until the end of time?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==



Absolutely it does. The issue was that the strikes themselves had a wider economic impact which likely lost more tax revenue than the pay rise "cost" the taxpayer.



Training is certainly expensive. The figure is around 100k per from memory. OT payments are certainly cheaper than hiring new staff which exactly how the railways have walked into a driver shortage.
What I don't get is why staff would be bullied into working overtime or rest days. As I am one, if I don't want to work overtime or a rest day, then I don't make myself available for that. I don't get pestered either.....and that applies for all staff at where I work. I know of no one who does get bullied into working when they don't want to
 
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Indeed.......you really do have to wonder why a lot of people on here seem not to understand a relatively simple point. Extra costs require covering either by the taxpayer or the farepayer. An influx of drivers to abolish permanent overtime will in reality be costly to the taxpayer.....
HM Treasury and therefore taxpayers will have to pay for the railway infrastructure and the trains leased by LNER regardless of whether anyone travels on the trains so it is in the best interests of HM Treasury and taxpayers to ensure that LNER provides a reliable service with affordable easy to understand and flexible fares that persuade rail passengers to pay to travel on the trains to provide fare income to at least partly offset the railway infrastructure and train leasing costs. I have not so far read of any action by the Government to try to get the strikes called off. I do not know if the Government just plans to let the strikes go ahead and not intervene. However I am not sure even if all 22 days of strikes go ahead that it will be as damaging as the LNER management removing off peak fares in putting people off travelling on LNER train services. I am certainly aware of people who would have considered travelling by train with LNER for off peak fares deciding to make their journeys by car instead due to the removal of the off peak fares. This is also putting them off travelling by train with any operator so it is leading to loss of business for the railway more widely than LNER though train operators will not know this as they do not know when people decide not to travel by train.
I am guessing that ASLEF decided to call strikes every Saturday and Sunday as these are the days when the LNER service is most reliant on overtime and rest day working and therefore the days most affected by issues which are the declared reasons for the strike.
 

Lewisham2221

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What I don't get is why staff would be bullied into working overtime or rest days. As I am one, if I don't want to work overtime or a rest day, then I don't make myself available for that. I don't get pestered either.....and that applies for all staff at where I work. I know of no one who does get bullied into working when they don't want to
Are you an LNER driver?
 

66701GBRF

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on-call / call-out payments is where you are required to respond within a specific time frame - whether that is by returning a call , logging into a system or actually going to a place of work... If there is no compulsion to respond there is no 'on call' allowance payable
As already been stated, it wasn’t about an ‘on call’ payment. It was about a call payment.
 

Bald Rick

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It's not as simple as you seem to think. I remember a time where a driver at my depot did a pension forecast, and when it came back favourable, told everyone else in the depot - who also did their own forecasts and 7 drivers handed their notice in within a week. It takes many many months to train drivers (and that's not including the recruitment process). So it made for interesting times trying to find coverage - especially as the "little railway" I work on doesn't permit voluntary overtime.

There are many other situations that prevent predictability in retirement.

I never said it was simple. But every employer knows the age of all their employees, and age is still the most important factor in retirement.

Age is of course an important factor, but it is a factor that has reduced in importance recently. It was a lot easier to plan when there was a ‘hard stop’!


Indeed.......you really do have to wonder why a lot of people on here seem not to understand a relatively simple point. Extra costs require covering either by the taxpayer or the farepayer. An influx of drivers to abolish permanent overtime will in reality be costly to the taxpayer.....

There’s an excellent article in the latest Modern Railways about how recruiting to reduce overtime / rest day working is far from simple. Martin Ward has written it in a style that is esy for the lay person to understand, and I recommend it to all.
 

Horizon22

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I can't speak for anyone other than me but I want managers (who do an important job) to be actually doing that job. That involves training, their assessment duties and day to day management tasks. They shouldn't be hindering those duties to drive trains.

It's a balance though. They need to keep up their competency and drive a certain number of hours each month. If that can fit it with what would otherwise be a cancellation, that's great although I do doubt that can be known in advance.

Similarly, if there is strike action and a skeleton service is planned with non-union drivers and driver managers again there is no issue.

If they are constantly being drafted in to cover the regular service on a regular basis, that is obviously more problematic because as you say other tasks fall down. It's all relative and to what extent it is happening.
 
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Whilst I agreed with the strike for a decent pay rise, I think this further strike is going to be totally counter productive. Labour will have to demonstrate to the public that they can say 'no' to the unions, and this will be seen in government as an ideal opportunity to do just that.
The Transport Secretary has called on ASLEF and LNER Management to get around the table and negotiate and stop the strikes before they start. Now the Transport Secretary has made this call if the strikes go ahead that would surely show the Government to be ineffective. I am not clear what the Government plans to do as they have not so far taken any action to get the two sides to negotiate. This dispute is not about pay and ASLEF is not asking the Government to do anything so I am not clear how the Government would say 'no' to ASLEF in this case.
 

Krokodil

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I am guessing that ASLEF decided to call strikes every Saturday and Sunday as these are the days when the LNER service is most reliant on overtime and rest day working and therefore the days most affected by issues which are the declared reasons for the strike.
They are also the days that the strikebreaking managers will be more reluctant to come in for, and there are some engineering works coming up which require diversions that the managers won't sign. Essentially the days are chosen to reduce LNER's ability to run a contingency service.
 

Class 170101

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Most (but not all) drivers have been in the 40% tax band for a long while. We’re now at the point that many will be taxed at a marginal rate of 60% above a typical number of rest days, and yes that will have an effect.
Or perhaps offer a day(s) in lieu. This would have zero effect on tax.
 

12LDA28C

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An influx of drivers to abolish permanent overtime will in reality be costly to the taxpayer.....

...which will be offset, at least to a certain extent by a more robust and reliable service leading to increased ridership meaning more farebox revenue which will be returned to the Treasury, no?
 

TreacleMiller

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If they are constantly being drafted in to cover the regular service on a regular basis, that is obviously more problematic because as you say other tasks fall down. It's all relative and to what extent it is happening.

The latter.
 

Class 170101

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But then you'll need someone on rest days later in the year to cover the person on an extra annual leave day. It just pushes the problem back.
Very true but then the queswtion has to be asked what could be offered beside financial payment and as already discussed it doesn't seem very lucrative when the marginal tax rate is 60%
 

Jimini

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Very true but then the question has to be asked what could be offered beside financial payment and as already discussed it doesn't seem very lucrative when the marginal tax rate is 60%

I thought the marginal 60% rate was between £100k and £125k as they take the personal allowance away by tapering (apols if I've got that wrong).
 

ChrisC

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Their rubbish ticketing system is enough to put me off, never mind several strikes. Thankfully I have no reason to use them.
Thankfully I also have no reason to use them at the weekends during the next few months. However, it’s the knock on effects of the strikes each weekend on other routes which will bother me. EMR are already regularly overcrowded at weekends to and from St Pancras with their short 5 carriage Meridians. I’ve been planning a couple of short breaks down on the south coast where I would travel back from St Pancras to Nottingham Saturday lunchtimes. I would rather change my plans and go somewhere else if I’m going to find queues and chaos at St. Pancras and even more overcrowding if lots of passengers from LNER decide to use EMR instead. EMR will not be able to cope week after week if these strikes do take place.
 
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