Which train operators issue credit card sized tickets and which ones issue new style paper tickets?

[kkong]

Maybe I'm imagining it but I'm sure some years ago I got an advance ticket with an Aztec code on regular CCST stock.

I have also seen CCST with Aztec codes on them - but not for some years.

 

[Bungle965]

Maybe I'm imagining it but I'm sure some years ago I got an advance ticket with an Aztec code on regular CCST stock.

I have also seen CCST with Aztec codes on them - but not for some years.

Avanti still issue CCST tickets with Aztec codes.

 

[rhizomergence]

CCST with Aztec code issued by Avanti ticket office! It would be sooooo good if this type of ticket could become the standard. They’re durable, convenient, and versatile! But the railway is allergic to ideas that make sense.

 

[Watershed]

So haw many plastic wallets would need to be manufactured to enable that?

Not many. Can't imagine annual ALR sales add up to more than a few thousand, perhaps just into the five figures?

 

[AM9]

Not many. Can't imagine annual ALR sales add up to more than a few thousand, perhaps just into the five figures?

Actually I was thinking king of all printed ticket roll issues (or at least those of high value that might require multiple presentations in their validity), not just ALRs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2024 ==

Oh please, if people can find a bar code on their phone to waive at it they can find it on the ticket.

Those having difficulties in using gates may not even have a smartphone, let alone be adept at finding barcodes on a smartphone and presenting them in the time that others seem to think they should be through the gates.

 

[Mcv378]

Are the existing CCST printers incapable of printing an Aztec code?

Other countries manage to print single-side-print rail tickets of the same size as CCST, with Aztec codes on them.

The photo below shows such a ticket, alongside a CCST.

View attachment 164527

A ticket that size above is ideal, it's the size I thought we are getting here in the UK.

 

[Wallsendmag]

The barcodes are type 11 though which does absolutely nothing and the type 6 as used on PRT and e-tickets etc doesn’t fit on CCST. Other media is more suited to rovers and seasons watch this space

 

[kkong]

The barcodes are type 11 though which does absolutely nothing and the type 6 as used on PRT and e-tickets etc doesn’t fit on CCST.

The Slovakian ticket I posted earlier has a more dense Aztec code than the Avanti one. Why can't the Type 6 code be fitted on CCST?

 

[Amaranthe]

How durable is a PRT ticket for use as an All Line Rover?

It would be advisable to keep it in an NRE wallet. Stretch it across the two facing pockets and it shouldn't need to be taken out.

I was actually given both an NRE plastic wallet and an LNER cardboard folder type thing.

The problem I had with the NRE wallet was that it obviously creases the ticket when you close the wallet.

However the LNER one was the perfect size for the PRT ticket and fitted nicely in my inside jacket pocket.

 

[Krokodil]

The problem I had with the NRE wallet was that it obviously creases the ticket when you close the wallet.

Shouldn't crease the Aztec code though, that will be well protected.

 

[317 forever]

PRT seems an odd acronym for bog roll ticket

 

[xotGD]

I collect lots of tickets from the Northern machines at Leeds. Tickets always card, accompanying receipt usually card, but occasionally on a piece of paper. This may just be from one of the machines.

I'm much more likely to leave the house without my phone than my wallet (or forget to charge my phone overnight), so physical tickets are a safer bet for me. I put the frog in my wallet the evening before, so I know it is there.

Plus I can avoid the scrum at Leeds when they are doing secondary checks on phone tickets.

It's always amusing to see a family group getting issued with bog roll tickets on the train, watching the ticket machine spew out a few metres of tickets.

And for anyone with a railcard on their phone, having a physical ticket allows both to be displayed simultaneously.

 

[AM9]

PRT seems an odd acronym for bog roll ticket

Why, when they are printed on what is called 'Print Roll' stationery?

 

[infobleep]

Plus I can avoid the scrum at Leeds when they are doing secondary checks on phone tickets.

Why are secondary checks required for phone tickets but not paper ones?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

Why, when they are printed on what is called 'Print Roll' stationery?

You are the first person, on page 5 of this thread, to explain the abbreviation PRT. It was first used on page 1. Thanks. A reminder to others reading, always explain any abbreviations when they are used for the first time.

 

[Haywain]

explain the abbreviation PRT.

Paper Roll Ticket. Probably not explained previously because it's been fairly common usage for some years.

 

[pelli]

Although not capitalised, the words "Paper Roll Tickets" first appeared in this thread in posts #5 and #8, predating the first appearance of the abbreviation "PRT", in post #10.

Lner seem to default to paper roll tickets. Just my experience of Selby, Thirsk, Northallerton and Darlington ticket offices in semi recent times

Larger SWR stations have been doing paper roll tickets for over a year now, but smaller ones are still CCST only. All TOCs ticket offices retain the ability to print on CCST to be able to sell cross-London tickets etc. (although this seemed to mildly surprise staff at an LNER one when my tickets printed that way)

TfW ticket offices seem to all do CCST. I suspect it's still a minority of ticket offices nationally that default to paper roll

Any TOCs that use Fujitsu still only issue to CCST as there is currently no PRT printer compatible.

 

[xotGD]

Why are secondary checks required for phone tickets but not paper ones?

The focus seems to be on checking that people with railcard discounted tickets actually have a railcard. Others who have had to go through the process can probably provide greater insight.

There may also be an element of seeing how many passengers have a ticket from Burley Park.

 

[Sonic1234]

Why are secondary checks required for phone tickets but not paper ones?

The gates can be set to have "special rules" for paper tickets, such as rejecting discounted tickets or rejecting certain types of tickets (GTR reject all Advances). This isn't yet possible for e-tickets.

 

[island]

Why are secondary checks required for phone tickets but not paper ones?

They are not required, but they are sometimes performed as an additional revenue protection measure.

Standard ticket gates are required to determine whether a ticket is valid or not and open within (I believe) half a second of a ticket being presented. This doesn't allow enough time to obtain the scanning history of the ticket, or a record of the ticket being refunded, or other data recorded against the ticket number. Manual scans using the various phone apps or Northern's so-called "intelligent ticket checker" allow time for these to be checked.

At major stations, a common sting operation is to have staff at nearby unstaffed station(s) scanning all e-tickets on entry to the platform and/or giving chits to passengers without tickets. A passenger arriving at the major station claiming to have travelled from said unstaffed station but where their ticket was not scanned or they are not in a possession of a chit, as the case may be, can then be investigated for short-faring.

Credit card size tickets do not have an electronic record of previous usage so this type of extra checks would not provide anything additional.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

The gates can be set to have "special rules" for paper tickets, such as rejecting discounted tickets or rejecting certain types of tickets (GTR reject all Advances). This isn't yet possible for e-tickets.

This isn't correct. For example, LNER gates in the north for many years rejected Two Together discounted e-tickets.

 

[Watershed]

This doesn't allow enough time to obtain the scanning history of the ticket, or a record of the ticket being refunded, or other data recorded against the ticket number.

It absolutely does. That is a large part of what blacklists of refunded tickets and digital scan records are for. I regularly see e-tickets being rejected at barriers for these reasons, usually followed by a denial of the fairly blatant attempt at fare evasion.

Manual scans using the various phone apps or Northern's so-called "intelligent ticket checker" allow time for these to be checked.

The real reason for these checks is that most ticket barriers do not allow the filters for manual e-ticket checks to be configured with sufficiently granularity. For example most don't allow Railcards to be rejected by type - TOCs might want to reject 16-17, 16-25 and 26-30 Railcard discounted tickets but not Senior or Disabled Railcard ones.

They also tend not to allow rejection based on origin (to detect possible short faring) or purchase time (to detect "buy when challenged").

 

[Mcr Warrior]

They also tend not to allow rejection based on origin (to detect possible short faring) or purchase time (to detect "buy when challenged").

If that's the case, why have we had so many newbies on the 'Disputes & Prosecutions' sub-forum who have been stopped at London Marylebone using/misusing tickets supposedly originating from Wembley Stadium?

 

[Watershed]

If that's the case, why have we had so many newbies on the 'Disputes & Prosecutions' sub-forum who have been stopped at London Marylebone using/misusing tickets supposedly originating from Wembley Stadium?

Like most journeys (although not all) within the London Zones, you can't get an e-ticket for it. So people generally turn up with tickets they've bought online for ToD collection, without having collected them, not realising how blatantly obvious their fare evasion attempt is.

 

[infobleep]

Although not capitalised, the words "Paper Roll Tickets" first appeared in this thread in posts #5 and #8, predating the first appearance of the abbreviation "PRT", in post #10.

I was look up print roll ticket because someone mentioned print roll stationary. What they should have said was paper roll stationary.m and then I would have searched for paper roll ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

They are not required, but they are sometimes performed as an additional revenue protection measure.

Standard ticket gates are required to determine whether a ticket is valid or not and open within (I believe) half a second of a ticket being presented. This doesn't allow enough time to obtain the scanning history of the ticket, or a record of the ticket being refunded, or other data recorded against the ticket number. Manual scans using the various phone apps or Northern's so-called "intelligent ticket checker" allow time for these to be checked.

At major stations, a common sting operation is to have staff at nearby unstaffed station(s) scanning all e-tickets on entry to the platform and/or giving chits to passengers without tickets. A passenger arriving at the major station claiming to have travelled from said unstaffed station but where their ticket was not scanned or they are not in a possession of a chit, as the case may be, can then be investigated for short-faring.

Credit card size tickets do not have an electronic record of previous usage so this type of extra checks would not provide anything additional.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==


This isn't correct. For example, LNER gates in the north for many years rejected Two Together discounted e-tickets.

I have one ticket that gets rejected at the barriers when presenting as a CCST but not when presented as an eTicket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

Like most journeys (although not all) within the London Zones, you can't get an e-ticket for it. So people generally turn up with tickets they've bought online for ToD collection, without having collected them, not realising how blatantly obvious their fare evasion attempt is.

How is the fare evasion obvious? Is this for long journeys that they could refund minus the admin cost or genuiningly people thunk ToD collection reference is OK, when it isn't.

I might be misunderstanding something.

 

[CyrusWuff]

How is the fare evasion obvious? Is this for long journeys that they could refund minus the admin cost or genuiningly people thunk ToD collection reference is OK, when it isn't.

I might be misunderstanding something.

A few reasons:

1) Wembley Stadium has two TVMs (one on the overbridge, one on the Londonbound platform) where they could have collected the ticket before travel; but also
2) A traditional Single from Wembley Stadium to Marylebone is £6.70, whereas it's only £3.20 Off-Peak or £4.40 Peak on Contactless or Oyster. As such, very few genuine travellers will buy a ticket for that journey; and
3) Other than on event days, Wembley Stadium generally only gets a half-hourly service, but people who've arrived on trains that haven't stopped there try to pick up tickets when they get to Marylebone.

 

[infobleep]

A few reasons:

1) Wembley Stadium has two TVMs (one on the overbridge, one on the Londonbound platform) where they could have collected the ticket before travel; but also
2) A traditional Single from Wembley Stadium to Marylebone is £6.70, whereas it's only £3.20 Off-Peak or £4.40 Peak on Contactless or Oyster. As such, very few genuine travellers will buy a ticket for that journey; and
3) Other than on event days, Wembley Stadium generally only gets a half-hourly service, but people who've arrived on trains that haven't stopped there try to pick up tickets when they get to Marylebone.

Understood now.

 

[Mcv378]

I've just seen this picture on the Caledonian Sleeper website, if the new ticket style was like this it would be ideal.

All the information you need on your ticket and it fits perfectly in your wallet too.

 

[MrJeeves]

View attachment 165510


I've just seen this picture on the Caledonian Sleeper website, if the new ticket style was like this it would be ideal.

All the information you need on your ticket and it fits perfectly in your wallet too.

That's just an Apple Wallet ticket screenshot!

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Merseyrail are still on CCSTs

 

[Mcv378]

That's just an Apple Wallet ticket screenshot!

Yes I know, I just wish this was the new style ticket.

 

[Haywain]

Yes I know, I just wish this was the new style ticket.

It is, it’s called an e-ticket.