Which train operators issue credit card sized tickets and which ones issue new style paper tickets?

[AM9]

except when they get demagnetised, or incorrectly swallowed by a ticket machine (*), of which I've had both happen to me enough times over the years to prefer eTickets or smartcard tickets to allow me to physically retain control of the ticket.

(*) Thankfully not often where I've had to actually request the ticket was retreived to continue travel, but it has on several occasions complicated delay repay claims.

I've been using CCSTs ever since they were introduced and only had about three cases of demagnetising and at least one of them was a CCST network Railcard. I don't remember ever having had my ticket retained incorrectly,

 

[Bungle965]

I've been using CCSTs ever since they were introduced and only had about three cases of demagnetising and at least one of them was a CCST network Railcard. I don't remember ever having had my ticket retained incorrectly,

Sadly your experience doesn’t tally up with a lot of customers, you only have to stand at a busy gateline and see the failure rate with a code of 09 (Unable to read) to understand the issue.

 

[MrJeeves]

I've had a ticket from North Downs to Burgess Hill swallowed up at Haywards Heath before.

I also had a Travelcard demagnetise itself before I had even put it through a barrier on Friday (likely from my magnetic phone case brushing past it at some point).

 

[AM9]

Sadly your experience doesn’t tally up with a lot of customers, you only have to stand at a busy gateline and see the failure rate with a code of 09 (Unable to read) to understand the issue.

Standing by a busy gateline is likely to give the impression that a significant proportion of travellers experience ccst read failures, particularly because the flow of others is smooth and without causing any problems. Do you have any actual figures for ccst read failures?

 

[yorksrob]

Sadly your experience doesn’t tally up with a lot of customers, you only have to stand at a busy gateline and see the failure rate with a code of 09 (Unable to read) to understand the issue.

One usually has plenty of time to do so, due to the number of people fruitlessly waiving their mobile phones at the barrier, calling forlornly to the barrier attendant.

 

[Belperpete]

Must have been some time ago now as it was only the Envoy devices that could print PRT cross London (For a small amount of time their replacements) but that has been disabled for a while now.

The Avanti guard issued me with CCST mag strip card tickets, not PRT bog roll.

 

[blueberry11]

I was under the impression why barriers may retain your ticket is because its unlikely the customer needs to use it again (unless its delayed) and to reduce waste and to ensure customers cannot refund the used ticket. But with barcode tickets, they can be scanned instead of inserted and cannot be retained by the barrier. Maybe for the same reason why car park tickets get retained at the barriers, but no one keeps it, let alone claiming delay repay.

 

[Bungle965]

The Avanti guard issued me with CCST mag strip card tickets, not PRT bog roll.

That wouldn’t have been a Train Manager then, TMs even before the current TIS only had PRT devices.
Most likely a Revenue Protection Inspector.

 

[renegademaster]

I don't think anywhere ran by GTR uses bog roll tickets yet?

 

[Travelmonkey]

The bog roll tickets are like voyagers only liked by a small subset off nutters, me being one of them. Tbh I find them mildly incovnvient but as a cash spender if it is a bog roll ticket that's just the cost of doing business with the TOC,

As I type this I've not long been sold a bog roll ticket by my EMR guard for todays adventures.

 

[Edvid]

I don't think anywhere ran by GTR uses bog roll tickets yet?

I've seen Worldline/Evoke TVMs at Luton Airport Parkway issue them, though I've not had one myself as I generally use tickets on my phone unless they're Travelcards or cross-London.

 

[island]

Should do, it's been the case for several years. All bus companies are interested in is the right words anyway, the magnetic stripe means nothing to them.

Not so. With the increasing rollout of 2D barcode tickets on buses, many bus drivers ask for PRT PlusBus tickets to be scanned, with variable results. CCST are most often waved through.

 

[renegademaster]

I've seen Worldline/Evoke TVMs at Luton Airport Parkway issue them, though I've not had one myself as I generally use tickets on my phone unless they're Travelcards or cross-London.

Wouldn't it be an EMR one?

 

[Edvid]

No, they're definitely GTR. Last I checked, at least one other TVM of that model (at the airport-side DART station) has a sticker explicitly proclaiming Thameslink ownership/operation; GTR have them at Gatwick Airport as well.

 

[renegademaster]

No, they're definitely GTR. Last I checked, at least one other TVM of that model (at the airport-side DART station) has a sticker explicitly proclaiming Thameslink ownership/operation; GTR have them at Gatwick Airport as well.

Odd. Can you buy advances on them?

 

[Edvid]

Never tried, so I haven't a clue.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Odd. Can you buy advances on them?

Not yet as far as I knoow

 

[Bungle965]

Not yet as far as I knoow

It's in the pipeline along with cash accepting machines....

 

[Krokodil]

Have you asked any TMs about that?

I wouldn't mind having access to a CCST printer. Apart from the commission lost on the (admittedly rare) occasion that someone asks for a cross-London ticket (from up here it'll be a three-figure fare) I also hate having to tell passengers that I can't print off their ToD and that they'll have to nip to the excess fares TVM when rushing to change trains. It's not just cross-London, it's also SailRails which sometimes turn up and the passenger won't be encountering a barrier to prevent them "forgetting" to print it off and refunding the ticket.

It's not like I'd have to keep the extra printer on my person, I could always leave it in the back cab until I actually need it.

This is down to cost alone.

 

[Bungle965]

I wouldn't mind having access to a CCST printer. Apart from the commission lost on the (admittedly rare) occasion that someone asks for a cross-London ticket (from up here it'll be a three-figure fare) I also hate having to tell passengers that I can't print off their ToD and that they'll have to nip to the excess fares TVM when rushing to change trains. It's not just cross-London, it's also SailRails which sometimes turn up and the passenger won't be encountering a barrier to prevent them "forgetting" to print it off and refunding the ticket.

It's not like I'd have to keep the extra printer on my person, I could always leave it in the back cab until I actually need it.

This is down to cost alone.

This sounds like a TOC issue more than anything else in regards to the first two issues.
As mentioned previously you can issue TOD onboard perfectly fine whilst if it is a Cross-London ticket you can sell to TOD and the customer can collect the ticket from a ticket machine at the first suitable opportunity. Both of these are available on multiple ticket issuing systems.
In regards to SailRail, how is it that the customer hasn’t managed to print their tickets off previously? Isn’t there TVMs in Holyhead?

 

[Krokodil]

In regards to SailRail, how is it that the customer hasn’t managed to print their tickets off previously? Isn’t there TVMs in Holyhead?

Same reason that any other ToDs don't get printed - if the station is unbarriered then there's nothing physically forcing them.

 

[Bungle965]

Same reason that any other ToDs don't get printed - if the station is unbarriered then there's nothing physically forcing them.

I would argue that it should be dealt with then as if the customer doesen’t have a ticket however that is for another thread!

 

[Krokodil]

I would argue that it should be dealt with then as if the customer doesen’t have a ticket however that is for another thread!

On some operators they would indeed have a Penalty Fare winging their way.

 

[MrJeeves]

On some operators they would indeed have a Penalty Fare winging their way.

On others they'd be prosecuted under the wrong offence with procedural errors

 

[High Dyke]

Because the ticket had cross-London validity.

That's what the Memsahib said. She knows about those things.

 

[Hadders]

Interesting observation on the 09:36 Thameslink train from Stevenage to Kings Cross this morning. Train was very busy an a RPI was checking tickets.

I was the only person in the carriage I was I who showed a paper ticket (a Travelcard as it happens). Everyone else showed an e-ticket on their phone.

Until recently GTR’s cheaper super off peak tickets at the weekend couldn’t be fulfilled to e-ticket. How quickly the situation has changed and passengers adopted e-tickets.

More concerning, is why aren’t more people using Travelcards (which are only available on CCST)? They are a bargain at the weekend (not so during the week from SVG) so I suspect many are paying more than they need to for their days out in London at the weekend.

 

[yorkie]

I suspect some people are actually prepared to pay a premium for the convenience of e-tickets, and for contactless when in London.

Especially for families with kids; the adults can have a copy of all the groups e-tickets, with each having a backup.

I suspect paper tickets are increasingly considered to be a faff, and if you lose it, you are stuffed.

Like most people these days, I'm not a fan of paper tickets , however I do make an exception for Travelcards, and I accept that making them e-ticketable would be problematic.

 

[Haywain]

Most people will probably only make 2 underground journeys so by buying separately they are only paying a pound or so* more, so they may well see that as acceptable for the convenience.


*Using Stevenage fares.

 

[redreni]

I suspect some people are actually prepared to pay a premium for the convenience of e-tickets, and for contactless when in London.

Especially for families with kids; the adults can have a copy of all the groups e-tickets, with each having a backup.

I suspect paper tickets are increasingly considered to be a faff, and if you lose it, you are stuffed.

Like most people these days, I'm not a fan of paper tickets , however I do make an exception for Travelcards, and I accept that making them e-ticketable would be problematic.

TfL has made them a lot more of a faff than they used to be.

In my experience it's now more common than it used to be for them to become demagnetised or just not work at all.

I've no issue with moving away from paper tickets, I just wish it wasn't felt necessary to use the change as a Trojan horse for fare increases.

It might be interesting to go down a train between Stevenage and London surveying passengers to find out what tickets they're using and what their plans are when they get to London, and whether they're aware of the day travelcard and how much it is. (Then again, the fact I think this is interesting is one of several reasons why I could never be a successful railway Youruber!)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2024 ==

Most people will probably only make 2 underground journeys so by buying separately they are only paying a pound or so* more, so they may well see that as acceptable for the convenience.


*Using Stevenage fares.

Yes, it depends how the ticket is used. Some families might only want to join the throngs causing an obstruction on the concourse at Kings Cross waiting to do the Harry Potter thing (whatever it is), in which case they're quite right to get a London Terminals return as an e-ticket.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Like most people these days, I'm not a fan of paper tickets , however I do make an exception for Travelcards, and I accept that making them e-ticketable would be problematic.

There is, of course, always the option of issuing Travelcards (except Family Travelcards and those issued with a Two Together or Family & Friends Railcard discount) to a Smartcard.

Granted that's not much use to someone making a one-off journey unless the TOC offers "instant" cards.