How to improve Euston station

[occone]

I'd like to see the precinct outside covered over, which could be done tastefully and would create a pleasant space for people to wait in.

Currently it's a haze of cigarette and vape smoke, and as detailed in the news article, not nice to use in the rain.

It always feels slightly threatening to me too; I don't feel comfortable getting my phone out. Covered over and made part of the station would make a great difference.

 

[HSTEd]

I think the roof has to come off the platforms.
It's going to have to go anyway and it would make it easier to rearrange things.

 

[Trackman]

I'd like to see the precinct outside covered over, which could be done tastefully and would create a pleasant space for people to wait in.

Currently it's a haze of cigarette and vape smoke, and as detailed in the news article, not nice to use in the rain.

It always feels slightly threatening to me too; I don't feel comfortable getting my phone out. Covered over and made part of the station would make a great difference.

The Piazza should stay as it is, people need the outdoor space - not just for smoking/vaping.
Was going to say fresh air too, but it's not best in that area of London, but it has improved over the years.
Slightly threatening? Yes, But I'm seasoned now so know how to deal with the idiots. Simple - ignore them. Only time I've had a go back at someone on the Piazza was during Covid as they said I wasn't 1.5m (or whatever) away from them.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

How to improve Euston station? Just a random thought...

(Pic of a crane/wrecking ball.)

 

[ScottGallagher]

What is based in the 3 storey building above the bus station I've always wondered.

In time could Euston lose the bus station? or perhaps move it closer to the main road, that will take away the green space but needs must!

 

[occone]

In time could Euston lose the bus station?

That would make a great difference, it's a horrible welcome to the station. Plus from the wrong angle you have to thread through people waiting for buses, and the station always smells of wee.

Simplifying the outside into a large square, more covered space, but still with space for people to wait around would make things much more tolerable.

Would removing the retail units by the platform help too, do people reckon? If they all moved outside/elsewhere, you could have a long line of ticket barriers. All the clutter and tat could go away from the functioning of a train station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That would make a great difference, it's a horrible welcome to the station.

It is however very useful. Any improvement really shouldn't make transport integration worse by pushing people out to overcrowded on street stops.

 

[artemic]

I've always thought everywhere in Euston is at 90° to where you are - can't say the new departure boards have helped in that regard! - perhaps the station needs rotating

Tongue removed from cheek; perhaps a road entrance to the bus ranks outside the station could be closed to provide a wider, more 'friendly' path into the station?
It always feels like you are Theseus fighting your way through the labyrinth trying to get into the station, particularly coming in from the roadside. The difference being that he eventually got where he was going!
Buses could still access from all directions, albeit perhaps a little more awkwardly, via the entrance at Eversholt St.
Suppose the main problem is that then you pile everyone out into the middle of Euston Road - quite possibly the worst in London () - but that doesn't seem to stop other stations!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've always thought everywhere in Euston is at 90° to where you are - can't say the new departure boards have helped in that regard! - perhaps the station needs rotating

Tongue removed from cheek; perhaps a road entrance to the bus ranks outside the station could be closed to provide a wider, more 'friendly' path into the station?
It always feels like you are Theseus fighting your way through the labyrinth trying to get into the station, particularly coming in from the roadside. The difference being that he eventually got where he was going!
Buses could still access from all directions, albeit perhaps a little more awkwardly, via the entrance at Eversholt St.
Suppose the main problem is that then you pile everyone out into the middle of Euston Road - quite possibly the worst in London () - but that doesn't seem to stop other stations!

The vast majority of people go straight into the Tube rather than out. The number of people leaving on foot is quite small, and most of those probably go to Euston Square. Actually here's one suggestion - build the proposed second Euston Square entrance right outside so that walk and double back along the platform is removed!

 

[ScottGallagher]

That would make a great difference, it's a horrible welcome to the station. Plus from the wrong angle you have to thread through people waiting for buses, and the station always smells of wee.

Simplifying the outside into a large square, more covered space, but still with space for people to wait around would make things much more tolerable.

Would removing the retail units by the platform help too, do people reckon? If they all moved outside/elsewhere, you could have a long line of ticket barriers. All the clutter and tat could go away from the functioning of a train station.

Wee smells and Euston are two peas in a pod particularly the alley between the bus station and WH Smith (where you always see evidence) for as long as I can remember , but it can't be closed off realistically.

 

[InTheEastMids]

I'd like to see the precinct outside covered over, which could be done tastefully and would create a pleasant space for people to wait in.

I can see why this might help general overcrowding, but it also puts passengers even further from the platforms.
So I think they'd still crowd near the platforms in expectation of the sprint, it's the sprint that is the problem.
I understand it's caused by short turnarounds due to fleet utilisation and platform capacity, which is interesting as I've never seen the Euston issue framed as a choice the rail industry has made to prioritise these factors over customers' ability to run.

My solution? On the 805/7 thread it appears power supply upgrades have put an end to the idea of a second Liverpool for several years, so use the slack this creates to re-diagram Avanti with longer turnarounds meaning platforms can open 15-20 minutes before departure. Don't LNWR have a few more 730s than they need coming too?

I think the roof has to come off the platforms.

I agree but wonder if all the platforms - particularly suburban - are wide enough to cope with lifts/stairs/escalators descending from above. If not, then the scope expands to widen some platforms and given that the space probably comes from P2/3 and P15/16 area, it's a once-in-150 years total rebuild, and probably not-in-any-of-our-lifetimes level stuff, unfortunately.

A shorter term solution could be to relocate whatever's in the blue areas on the station map. No idea what's in those spaces, but I'd like to think that's already been thought of.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/London-Euston-Station-Map.pdf

 

[Bletchleyite]

A shorter term solution could be to relocate whatever's in the blue areas on the station map. No idea what's in those spaces, but I'd like to think that's already been thought of.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/London-Euston-Station-Map.pdf

It certainly does appear (while that map isn't to scale) that by removing some of the retail units on the toilets side you could create a bit more space similar to what was done with the old Boots next to the ticket office, which would significantly reduce congestion towards the toilets and P1-3 which is quite bad. That would be a couple of weeks' work plus the cost of buying out the leases. I'm not sure the other side would be as useful now 17/18 aren't there.

But that would just reduce crowding, not reduce the rush. The rush will always exist as long as there are overcrowded trains with unreserved seating. I'm actually not sure it makes any difference how late the train is called.

Dare I suggest (no, I'm not actually advocating it due to other downsides, but...) that applying enforced compulsory reservation to Avanti would fix it? It did for the low-cost airlines where there was typically a scrum for the best seats which pretty much stopped the day allocated seating was brought in? Wouldn't fix WMT, but to me they just need to stop suppressing platforms on that, it worked fine before. Indeed, I wonder if LNER's higher priced/entirely absent walk ups means more people have reservations and that is why Kings X is nowhere near as bad?

If as I believe I heard on here they are looking at applying the "LNER solution" to an Avanti route as a further trial which would mean much higher numbers of people on Advances and therefore having reserved seats, it might be worth monitoring how that affects the scrum. If you have a reserved seat and everyone else does too (that bit is important, as often people will sit in reserved seats and won't move when asked), is there any reason to run?

 

[nlogax]

Demolish it all. A new concourse should be at track level so the tricky part would be to get passengers between street and concourse. (Re)move the bus station along with other retail buildings in the vicinity and what was the outside plaza opens up the required space to make that vertical transition using lifts, escalators, stairs and ramps. Maybe within the area of the transition build some retail space but on the edges, all under a New St or Moynihan Hall-style roof which projects light down to concourse level.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I said the bus station (in some form) really needs to stay. Remove it and bus connectivity would be far, far worse.

I think if doing a complete rebuild I wouldn't look for an overall roof, I'd extend the concourse over the lines with multiple access escalators/ramps. This would make it a bit New St like at platform level, but once the 80x are all in service there would be no diesel which would make a huge difference.

 

[Western Lord]

How to improve Euston station? Just a random thought...
View attachment 166227
(Pic of a crane/wrecking ball.)

They've tried that once.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They've tried that once.

And can you imagine just how awful the original would have been? The service has outgrown the current one, but the old Great Hall was a third of the size of the present one.

There are too many rose tinted spectacles worn about the old station, largely because of a fairly monstrous concrete arch and a Great Hall that was barely big enough to be the first class lounge. For those who won't have experienced it in person (I haven't either to be fair) think the Leeds old/food concourse but roughly halved in length?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

They've tried that once.

1960s? And made it so much better! Time now, though, to have another go.

 

[Transilien]

1960s? And made it so much better! Time now, though, to have another go.

Hopefully this time it will last over 60 years without having to be rebuilt again!

 

[Trainbike46]

In my view, what needs to happen is:

Short term:
- Remove the terrible advertising board
- Call trains earlier, so fewer people have to wait in the concourse (don't suppress LNWR trains at all, at all times have a Birmingham and a Manchester Avanti train listed as boarding, they go every 20 minutes, so that means they need to be called more than 20 minutes before departure. Just keep the doors locked if cleaning is still ongoing)
- Get better departure boards
- Close the shops near the toilets and use the space to expand the concourse
- Expand the ladies toilets (there's frequent bad queueing for the ladies, but the gents seems to cope better)

Long term:
- Build HS2 Euston (ideally with 11 platforms)
- Make an entrance to Euston Square underground closer to Euston Mainline station
- Possibly build Crossrail 2

 

[nlogax]

I think if doing a complete rebuild I wouldn't look for an overall roof, I'd extend the concourse over the lines with multiple access escalators/ramps. This would make it a bit New St like at platform level, but once the 80x are all in service there would be no diesel which would make a huge difference.

I disagree. If it's a complete rebuild you may as well bring the passengers down to platform level from the start. No-one would willingly start out with Birmingham New St as it is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I disagree. If it's a complete rebuild you may as well bring the passengers down to platform level from the start. No-one would willingly start out with Birmingham New St as it is.

But then you're stuck with people accessing the platforms from the ends only. It would be better if they were accessed from multiple points evenly (i.e. the main waiting area was roughly half way along the concourse) as then you don't get the silly situation you get now of a 12-car being full and standing at the back but nearly empty at the front.

I don't get the hate for New St's downstairs bit to be honest. Like Euston's present platforms (which are less nice) the idea isn't that you hang out down there. Maybe enthusiasts hate it because they do like hanging round on platforms because that way you can watch the trains? A Euston concourse that was 200m or so long but as wide as the present one would provide all the space you'd ever need.

To me, the only problems with New St's downstairs bit are (a) that the platforms are too narrow (fixable by changing the layout - at Euston 1-3 has a lot of wasted space and there are the middle roads which could be removed - dump your spare/knackered locos and units at Camden Bank instead) and (b) the fug from the DMUs (no DMUs at Euston once the Voyagers are gone). Without DMUs it could be made even more spacious feeling by having the ceilings a light colour and uplighting them.

 

[dosxuk]

I disagree. If it's a complete rebuild you may as well bring the passengers down to platform level from the start. No-one would willingly start out with Birmingham New St as it is.

The big advantage of having the passengers waiting on a different level is that they can easily be spread out along the length of the platform, rather than all congregated at one end. Results in better loading and less of a rush to get seats. It also means you could easily have separate departure and arrival routes that don't conflict with each other. You could even have waiting areas for each platform, airport gate style, which could drastically improve the experience for long distance services (which are less likely to be affected by a last-minute platform change).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The big advantage of having the passengers waiting on a different level is that they can easily be spread out along the length of the platform, rather than all congregated at one end. Results in better loading and less of a rush to get seats. It also means you could easily have separate departure and arrival routes that don't conflict with each other. You could even have waiting areas for each platform, airport gate style, which could drastically improve the experience for long distance services (which are less likely to be affected by a last-minute platform change).

Airport style queuing areas above each platform would make a massive difference to the scrum - it wouldn't need to run - it might surge forward a bit but it would be much less of a problem. As you say with separated arrival and departure routes (arrivals could be at platform level, perhaps, just off the end?) you would have no need to suppress the platform, just have Eurostar style electronically controlled doors at the queueing areas that only open when the train is called for boarding. (I have assumed there'd be a single gateline at the entrance to the new enlarged concourse - indeed, you could have a much bigger paid area with facilities in it rather than most of them outside - which means people would enter it in dribs and drabs in a relaxed fashion rather than in a panic).

Enthusiasts don't like stations that are like airports because it's hard to watch trains, but in reality making Euston *more* like an airport would probably improve it immeasurably.

A look at how the new-build Chinese mega-stations do it would be educational. They deal with the same huge numbers of people, but manage a civilised experience.

 

[sprunt]

If you have a reserved seat and everyone else does too (that bit is important, as often people will sit in reserved seats and won't move when asked), is there any reason to run?

On particularly busy services, to be able to claim a spot for your luggage in a rack.

 

[alex17595]

How about turning the parcel deck into a sort of departure lounge? Have ramps down to the platform at one end and make the existing platform extrance exit only.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If you have a reserved seat and everyone else does too (that bit is important, as often people will sit in reserved seats and won't move when asked), is there any reason to run?

Yes, because they'll still only announce the platform about 5 microseconds before the departure time...

 

[Bletchleyite]

On particularly busy services, to be able to claim a spot for your luggage in a rack.

Since the refurbishment doubled the size of the Pendolino luggage racks that has appeared to me to be far less of a problem. And in the 80x luggage capacity absolutely abounds - the overheads are huge and there are more large racks than any other 80x, plus between the seat backs of the large amount of facing seating. It's the biggest problem in Voyagers, but these are almost gone now.

Yes, because they'll still only announce the platform about 5 microseconds before the departure time...

By and large that's hyperbole. Platforms are being announced quite late, but not generally so late that if you don't run you'll miss it.

How about turning the parcel deck into a sort of departure lounge? Have ramps down to the platform at one end and make the existing platform extrance exit only.

I have wondered about that, but the problem is that the existing platforms are a bit narrow for adding stairs down to them, so you'd need to rip it all out and start again anyway, which would mean taking the parcel deck down as its supports are on the platforms (at least in part).

 

[HSTEd]

Airport style queuing areas above each platform would make a massive difference to the scrum - it wouldn't need to run - it might surge forward a bit but it would be much less of a problem. As you say with separated arrival and departure routes (arrivals could be at platform level, perhaps, just off the end?) you would have no need to suppress the platform, just have Eurostar style electronically controlled doors at the queueing areas that only open when the train is called for boarding. (I have assumed there'd be a single gateline at the entrance to the new enlarged concourse - indeed, you could have a much bigger paid area with facilities in it rather than most of them outside - which means people would enter it in dribs and drabs in a relaxed fashion rather than in a panic).

Enthusiasts don't like stations that are like airports because it's hard to watch trains, but in reality making Euston *more* like an airport would probably improve it immeasurably.

A look at how the new-build Chinese mega-stations do it would be educational. They deal with the same huge numbers of people, but manage a civilised experience.

I very much agree.
Id envisage a concourse over the entire platform area, right to the end.
Continuous gateline running around the outside and separated arrivals from both platform ends.
It might look a bit like an airport but we could always have structural glass above the trains to let some light in and reminds people it is a railway station (have to arrange it to prevent 'upskirting' from the platform)

Put the entire top deck under a lightweight transparent arch roof.

My experience of New Street is dominated by a confusing layout and air pollution, neither of which are an issue here.
I have no issue with the concept of underground platforms at all, and in new construction we can give them enough headroom to make them not claustrophobic.

Ofcourse if we are smashing up Euston we might as well fix the strange skew and make the station point straight up the track too......

 

[MarkyT]

Any improvement really shouldn't make transport integration worse by pushing people out to overcrowded on street stops.

On street stops might be improved with more standing space, seating and shelters. On the Eastbound side of Euston Road there's space for that, but the westbound pavement is rather narrow. A comprehensive redevelopment of the station frontage could shift the road carriageways north a little to create more pedestrian space on the south side, also perhaps useful for Euston Square's east access to street level on that side. The kinks in the lanes necessary to do this would help to keep traffic speed under control passing the station. The reduction in bus turning movements would probably help to smooth traffic flow overall.

Actually here's one suggestion - build the proposed second Euston Square entrance right outside so that walk and double back along the platform is removed!

I think the pedestrian subway should also be built in some form, maybe at first with a 'temporary' street level access on the north side pending decisions on how to tie it in to a redeveloped main line terminus properly. That could also form an access from the terminus to bus stops on the south side. Reductions in pedestrian crossings on the level could further improve traffic flow and safety.

 

[nlogax]

But then you're stuck with people accessing the platforms from the ends only. It would be better if they were accessed from multiple points evenly (i.e. the main waiting area was roughly half way along the concourse) as then you don't get the silly situation you get now of a 12-car being full and standing at the back but nearly empty at the front.

I don't get the hate for New St's downstairs bit to be honest. Like Euston's present platforms (which are less nice) the idea isn't that you hang out down there. Maybe enthusiasts hate it because they do like hanging round on platforms because that way you can watch the trains? A Euston concourse that was 200m or so long but as wide as the present one would provide all the space you'd ever need.

Yes, I do take your point about end of platform pinch-points though with the space opened up by a complete demolition of the plaza, existing buildings, redundant tracks etc you introduce a lot of scope to get people moving up and down the full length of platforms. I would suggest introducing additional station entrances on the eastern, western and maybe even northern sides - for these of course there would need to be some sort of over-platform deck arrangement.

I don't really consider myself a train enthusiast but I do prefer to wait on platforms rather than stand around on a concourse when my train is in the vicinity, and judging by how full platforms get even at stations with reasonable concourses I don't seem to be alone there. In this regard New St is an altogether terrible passenger experience. To be fair at Euston we mostly don't even get that opportunity until what feels like five minutes before departure.

To me, the only problems with New St's downstairs bit are (a) that the platforms are too narrow (fixable by changing the layout - at Euston 1-3 has a lot of wasted space and there are the middle roads which could be removed - dump your spare/knackered locos and units at Camden Bank instead) and (b) the fug from the DMUs (no DMUs at Euston once the Voyagers are gone). Without DMUs it could be made even more spacious feeling by having the ceilings a light colour and uplighting them.

Euston needs to be fully opened up. Whether you do that with an at-level concourse or via a deck arrangement, the grim claustrophobic nature of the platform area needs reversing. Get some natural light into the place, spread the numbers / load and let passengers onto the platform when they want. We don't need a return to Euston Arch-style architectural pomp but we do need something practical that can accommodate the sorts of passenger numbers the current station is completely unable to manage.