London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Failed Unit]

I also wish people would stop complaining, as has been said above it's too late! When they did customer surveys in the past you all said free food! Here we are with free food and now you want to pay for it! Blimey almighty.

I have the right to complain, as someone how had the choice between free food on Virgin and paying for decent choice of food on east coast I voted with my feet and didn't use Virgin. Did 100% of people surveyed really say free food? What questions were asked on the survey?

I know you work for east coast so you can't critise what they do, but do you really think that the all day offer is good? I am sure if people were asked now, would you rather have 2 small sandwiches and a packet of crisps or the option to buy something decent what would you chose on a 4hour+ journey?

Also you forgot that many first class tickets already had food including in the price, the "Scottish Executive" and the various "Dine" options that would were priced the same as the anytime return. So getting food including in your ticket is not new it happened under GNER, NXEC and also East Coast

Change happens, we don't have to like it, it doesn't always mean things are better does it?

I would rather have something decent myself and pay for it, that viewpoint has never changed - it is just seeing how poor the offer is now it just proves I was right. I do accept that the Leeds and Edinburgh route have different demands and the current offering is maybe OK for the journeys of the 2h mark, but those are not the journeys I personally am making. However it will hit East Coast as some times I will go standard now and buy something decent to eat on the station, other times I will use Virgin.

It is never too late, look at history - new coke anyone - if the backlash is good enough east coast will think again! Hopefully some pressure will also get some of the northbound journey times reduce back to the time they were pre-timetable change!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I guess some people are prepared to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Exactly what gift horse is this, we make the service slower but give you a poor choice of free food if you travel in the day - so you should be grateful that you can no longer pay for decent food. That is almost like Ryanair saying you should be grateful that you can walk to the aircraft as we don't charge you for this!

Maybe Eastcoast should have followed the Scotrail example - kept the at seat dining and given people a voucher to spend included in the ticket price. I mean the all day offer which is hardly worth giving out would probably would only cost £5 if you buy it from M&S (and that is probably unfair to M&S) - But I shouldn't moan it is free afterall and it is more than a biscuit. If they had given me a £5 voucher at least I could buy a decent sandwich (ie what was previously on SALE or as part payment to the larger offerings on the at seat menu) If East coast give me 8 cans of beer they could pay for that by turning off the air-conditioning, I mean I have free beer so I can't complain the coach is hot can I, don't look a gift horse in the mouth I have free beer.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I take it back, both East Coast and Virgin are as bad for catering

From Virgins menu

(from 11:00 until 16:00 and after 19:00 - Mon-Fri - on selected services)

Choice of two delicious sandwiches or snacks, made from the finest ingredients.
With a sweet treat like a muffin or slice of cake.

(from 17:00 until 19:00 - Mon-Fri)

Choice of two tasty seasonal hot options (vegetarian option available).
Or choice of two delicious sandwiches or snacks.
With a sweet dessert treat like a chilled pudding or slice of cake.
Or cheese and biscuits (selected services only).

Evening Meals are not served on Super Voyager services between Birmingham and Scotland

But as they are both as bad, but that is what passengers wanted apperently, poor choice but free over decent choice you need to pay for

 

[jon0844]

I haven't tried the new service, and never really tried the old one, but do they need to have exotic dishes (well, actually not that exotic but described such that people will wonder what something is)?

Will they put the menu on the website with the ticket ordering system, so you can choose the type of ticket and then see what food is served, so you can plan around food you like?

Personally, I think the new system sounds fine in principle, and they may just come to offer more universal dishes. What's wrong with a burger (call it a gourmet burger, obviously!) and other 'favourites' for the many people who actually like to stick with what they know and are scared of change?

I don't know what people were asked exactly when they said they wanted free food, but I wonder if they were asked what meals they'd like. Were they given examples? Were they asked to list their favourites?

 

[38Cto15E]

If one is travelling in first class and doesn't fancy the freebies being offered, can they purchase alternatives to eat?

 

[Failed Unit]

If one is travelling in first class and doesn't fancy the freebies being offered, can they purchase alternatives to eat?

They can - as this is an improvement to the service they can get up and walk to the buffet and join the queue in standard. They have no idea what they can purchase as there is no menu on the train or on-line but hey that is part of the fun. In happier days you could get anything you wanted from the buffet and and seat menu delivered to your seat, but that is not what people want. If the buffet is closed you can also play the game "where is the trolley!"

 

[jon0844]

EC should be advertising these games as things to occupy your time while on a long journey.

Sadly, the only chance I had in recent years to experience the restaurant was not to be as problems on the ECML forced EC to merge two trains into one, so there was no restaurant (or even the shop) for our trip to Leeds - and we came back on a Sunday, so only got free tea and biscuits. A lot of tea I might add (goodness knows how many refills I had!).

 

[Blindtraveler]

i have to take issue with failed unit on one point - despite the lack of evening meals on voyagers the free offering is to my mind good.

As far as silentones point about people stopping com plaining, i have to agree. I'll maybe change my mind once iv tried it but hope i could give an unbiased review

 

[All Line Rover]

I take it back, both East Coast and Virgin are as bad for catering

From Virgins menu

(from 11:00 until 16:00 and after 19:00 - Mon-Fri - on selected services)

Choice of two delicious sandwiches or snacks, made from the finest ingredients.
With a sweet treat like a muffin or slice of cake.

(from 17:00 until 19:00 - Mon-Fri)

Choice of two tasty seasonal hot options (vegetarian option available).
Or choice of two delicious sandwiches or snacks.
With a sweet dessert treat like a chilled pudding or slice of cake.
Or cheese and biscuits (selected services only).

Evening Meals are not served on Super Voyager services between Birmingham and Scotland

But as they are both as bad, but that is what passengers wanted apperently, poor choice but free over decent choice you need to pay for

I disagree. Virgin's First Class offering is excellent. The Light Bites sandwiches are tasty, large and filling - especially since they are served with crisps. The Pendolino Evening Meal is DELICIOUS, and is much better for real than how Virgin describe it!

The fact that Evening Meals are not served on Super Voyagers between Birmingham and Scotland isn't much of an issue, as the Evening Meals served on Super Voyagers to/from London are very poor. It's the best Virgin can do considering the size of the "kitchen."

You can only compare HSTs to Pendolinos, and the First Class food on Virgin's Pendolinos is MUCH better.

 

[Failed Unit]

I have had the evening meal on Virgin before, no compliants to be honest. Not done the light bites, but the menu doesn't inspire, however it can't be worse than east coast. Virgin breakfast is very good. I don't go first class on the voyagers any more because it isn't worth it but people say it has improved recently. I have yet to speak to anyone on the train who thinks the all day east coast offering is good. Most take the view is that it.

The cynic in me thinks that offering things that are obscure, no menus etc will result in low demand for the hot option. We dropped it because no one wants it will be the feedback. I also looked up the survey results. 50% agree to free food the other 50% no preference or wanted the offer to stay the same. A majority yes but not overwhelming that east coast imply.

 

[Essexman]

If one is travelling in first class and doesn't fancy the freebies being offered, can they purchase alternatives to eat?

They can walk to the buffet but the only hot food there is paninis. The buffet choice for Standard has been made worse, maybe to encourage more to use First - but it seems I won't be the only one moing the other way.

 

[northofthesand]

I haven't tried the new service, and never really tried the old one, but do they need to have exotic dishes (well, actually not that exotic but described such that people will wonder what something is)?

Will they put the menu on the website with the ticket ordering system, so you can choose the type of ticket and then see what food is served, so you can plan around food you like?

Personally, I think the new system sounds fine in principle, and they may just come to offer more universal dishes. What's wrong with a burger (call it a gourmet burger, obviously!) and other 'favourites' for the many people who actually like to stick with what they know and are scared of change?

I don't know what people were asked exactly when they said they wanted free food, but I wonder if they were asked what meals they'd like. Were they given examples? Were they asked to list their favourites?

Exactly....It can't be that hard surely to leave some questionnaire's on first class tables for a few months.

Like Greenback suggested a few old favourites and like you said,a good quality
burger, see which are most popular then get them ready to be rolled our for the winter

Then EC or RG whoever talks to people at the coalface like silentone and his crews to see which ones would be the most efficient meals to be able to serve on that perticular service.

 

[Failed Unit]

That is the suprising thing about the whole thing, no one has asked for feedback so east coast think everyone is happy. People who booked over the east coast website could have a survey emailed to them. But I can't forget, it is free so I have lost the right to complian. If I spend £600 per month with east coast - I can look a gift horse in the mouth it is better than a biscuit. If i want 2 glasses of wine I am gready, even if the old bottles used to fill two glasses anyway. If you want to spend some money rather than accept the free offer you are an idiot. East coast should treat passengers with less contempt and accept for many the offer is now much worse. The battle continues.

 

[richa2002]

I also wish people would stop complaining, as has been said above it's too late! When they did customer surveys in the past you all said free food! Here we are with free food and now you want to pay for it! Blimey almighty.

A lot of trains also didn't, and regardless of whoever paid what for their ticket they all get treated the same and some courtesy and lack of greed should be shown.

I'm sure you'll be able to appreciate that any 'customer survey' can be worded to suit a company's intention. I'm sure people were asked whether they would like free food in first instead of having to pay for it and of course, who would say no to that? Though I'm also pretty much just as sure there wasn't a caveat in the question which mentioned the much-reduced choice.

Yes, a lot of trains didn't have at-seat dining or a restaurant but the all-day option is hardly any improvement on what was available before from the café bar to be served at your seat on these trains.

Regardless of whether they paid £300 or £30 for their ticket they would be treated the same. If people are going to be rude throughout their journey then I'm sorry I probably won't be laying on the red carpet for them.

I agree a first class passenger should be treated the same regardless of what type of fare they have purchased but I'm sorry, unfortunately there are rude people in life but it just so happens that these rude people have paid the first class fare so they are expected to receive the same pleasant service as anyone else instead of being moaned about on a forum. The customer is always right regardless of whether they are or not and this is the attitude that should be shown by all 'customer-facing' staff. Of course there is a degree of rudeness that can't be tolerated but I doubt these passengers were swearing or physically assaulting you!

I guess some people are prepared to look a gift horse in the mouth.

That just sums up what happens when you make something complimentary, all of a sudden you're supposed to be grateful for it and neglect the fact that firstly, you've paid for it in the ticket price and secondly, a few weeks ago a much-wider, better choice of food was available on more trains albeit paid for but as I've said before, the sorts who travel first don't mind paying a bit more for something decent.

But yes, in reply to someone who said whether I'll send my views to East Coast, I certainly will as I know ranting on a forum won't exactly do much good though I'm doubtful if an e-mail to East Coast will be any better.

 

[telstarbox]

Light Bights

aaaah

 

[silentone]

Good grief, next you'll be sending me messages wanting to know what the future menu's hold... oh no wait we've past that.

 

[Failed Unit]

Good grief, next you'll be sending me messages wanting to know what the future menu's hold... oh no wait we've past that.

Steak sandwich of the all day menu? There is no need to ask you (unless you are on the trains when they have no menu) they could be put on the Internet with the days they are in operation, maybe the cafe bar could be put on the Internet as well. Such a radical idea? It used to be dine pre-may by a company called east coast! problem, if people know what is on offer the may decide to go standard if they don't like what is on offer, which is probably why they don't declare it, along with the bad press - is that all? Which the company can reply it is free so stop moaning, although some tickets included food in the past and we offer was better, not every one did you ungrateful passenger.

 

[StrollerEd]

Thank you for contacting the East Coast Customer Relations department. As stated within our East Coast Passenger's Charter, we aim to respond to all written correspondence within 10 working days.


If your enquiry is time critical, such as lost property please do not hesitate to contact us on 08457 225333 (Option 3), Monday to Friday 08:30-17:00 and we will of course be happy to help.

Thank you again for contacting East Coast Mainline.

Regards

Customer Relations Team

tomorrow is the day!

I wonder what they will say.

as an aside, I decided that my enquiry was time critical, so I had phoned them to let them know that imo they have a relatively short time in which to act to change the new arrangements for catering for passengers with first class tickets, and that if they persisted you would generate customer disassisfaction and loss of custom.

I'm due to travel down to London on Thursday. Am in two minds whether its the train or the plane.

 

[Skimble19]

Honestly cannot believe some of the moaning going on right now.. what is the point?! Do you really think sitting moaning about it on here and comparing it to the oh-mighty king of catering Virgin is going to do anything what so ever? It isn't. Moaning at silentone about the website is hardly going to do anything either. You know where to send your complaints - fire off your anger there and you're far more likely to get somewhere.

As for suggestions of a more simple menu (E.g. Burgers, Fish & Chips, Bangers & Mash etc.) I have to agree that would be my personal preference too.. but it's the first summer menu - feedback will be gained and menu's will be adjusted accordingly..

 

[StrollerEd]

Huh?

I am complaining - not moaning.

And I thought that this was a thread on which to vent - if not why not?

 

[sheff1]

I also wish people would stop complaining, as has been said above it's too late! When they did customer surveys in the past you all said free food! Here we are with free food and now you want to pay for it! Blimey almighty.

Did we indeed ? I can assure you I said no such thing !!

I guess some people are prepared to look a gift horse in the mouth.

I would not class a limited selection of mediocre food as a gift horse. More of a disincentive I suggest.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I would not class a limited selection of mediocre food as a gift horse. More of a disincentive I suggest.

To the average person wishing to try First class for the first time I would say adding the words 'complimentry food to 1st class customers' to be quite an incentive. Whether it is mediocre or not is of course subject to opinion which I cannot at the moment express because I have yet to try the new 1st class offering.

We have to remember that the new offering has been designed to entice more custom to 1st class areas. The breakfast offering looks fine to me and should keep most business customers happy imo. The main purpose of this appears to be enticing the off-peak traveller to make the upgrade. You will be surprised how many people will see the words complimentry or free and go for it whether there is much value in it or not. I think it is a master-stroke from a marketing point of view and can see it probably being a reasonable success.

From my point of view if given the choice I would rather it was the old way as well. Still we have to remember that this new offering is still in it's infancy. What is key is that people who have tried the new service and feel that changes should be made is to write to east coast and tell them what you want changing. East coast are not going to want them to put themselves in the position of losing 1st class passengers. The only way they will know how you feel and getting things changed is to complain. If enough people complain then things will probably change. Won't know unless you try.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Ive tried looking on virgins website to see what they offer on there evening menu but it doesnt say, does anyone know if it is better? They seem to offer a meal on a lot of there services on a evening, are these all chef prepared? If so thats pretty impressive, if not then is it just microwaved stuff? They show the breakfast menu which seems just the same as EC, except fried egg instead of scrambled. I wonder if there is a great deal of difference at all, its almost like its been set up for Virgin to take over the eastcoast mainline

 

[Failed Unit]

Honestly cannot believe some of the moaning going on right now.. what is the point?! Do you really think sitting moaning about it on here and comparing it to the oh-mighty king of catering Virgin is going to do anything what so ever? It isn't. Moaning at silentone about the website is hardly going to do anything either. You know where to send your complaints - fire off your anger there and you're far more likely to get somewhere.

As for suggestions of a more simple menu (E.g. Burgers, Fish & Chips, Bangers & Mash etc.) I have to agree that would be my personal preference too.. but it's the first summer menu - feedback will be gained and menu's will be adjusted accordingly..

I have fired them off to east coast. Paying the same price for my ticket but getting less value out of it now! I will see if they respond. King of catering Virgin? Nope upto 2 weeks ago that was east coast. I would say now it is FGW.

As for ranting on here it is a good thing.
1. East coast management may read it.
2. If you google east coast first class you find this and lots of other negative reviews, it may prevent someone wasting their money any buying a first class ticket to getting the "all day offer"
I know stating to Silentone the company is letting passengers down makes no difference, but he is swallowing the company line that somehow we should be grateful the service is worse. 2 sandwiches and a packet of crisps, most people are not that easily impressed.

 

[Skimble19]

Whilst you may not be impressed by 2 sandwiches (which I thought was 4?) and a packet of crisps, that's not all you're getting. It's not as if the restaurants (who's end seems to be the main complaint) were on many services before the timetable change anyway..

Have any of you been to Kings Cross / St Pancras Underground lately..? There are massive stickers/vinyl's everywhere advertising the new service, as well as one for the Flying Scotsman. Having seen them myself I'd say it'd definitely entice the average passenger, and it's being completely honest about the service.

 

[sheff1]

To the average person wishing to try First class for the first time I would say adding the words 'complimentry food to 1st class customers' to be quite an incentive.

We have to remember that the new offering has been designed to entice more custom to 1st class areas. The breakfast offering looks fine to me and should keep most business customers happy imo. The main purpose of this appears to be enticing the off-peak traveller to make the upgrade. You will be surprised how many people will see the words complimentry or free and go for it whether there is much value in it or not. I think it is a master-stroke from a marketing point of view and can see it probably being a reasonable success.

I take your point.

Of course, if EC can attract attract more new customers, who then stick with First, than existing First customers they lose to downgrade or modal switch, I am sure they will be happy. Even better, though, if they could get the new customers and retain the existing ones.

 

[Failed Unit]

Whilst you may not be impressed by 2 sandwiches (which I thought was 4?) and a packet of crisps, that's not all you're getting. It's not as if the restaurants (who's end seems to be the main complaint) were on many services before the timetable change anyway..

Have any of you been to Kings Cross / St Pancras Underground lately..? There are massive stickers/vinyl's everywhere advertising the new service, as well as one for the Flying Scotsman. Having seen them myself I'd say it'd definitely entice the average passenger, and it's being completely honest about the service.

Nope, on my personal experience it is only 2. Also it is the loss of the at seat service I am not happy about which was on most trains to Scotland. Yes I have gone to gone through many stations including kings cross and seen the adverts. The flying Scotsman is great as a one off. But heading north on the 1800 a service I used a lot not only is it now 13 minutes slower but the choice of food is much less. But I have so far made 4 journeys under the new service, about to make another 2 and have yet to hear anything positive said. When passengers ask is that it? The reply is it is better than the biscuits, maybe but having to walk into standard, queue at the buffet and return to your seat isn't, may as well just go standard then. Btw must northbound services to Scotland in the evening are slower, 1500, 1700 and 1800 are breaking previous long established connections, the 1600 is about the same.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have said before the new offering may be fine for the Leeds route, but have you tried first class from Edinburgh? After leaving at 0930 you arrive at Kings Cross VERY hungry. So i may be weird but bring back at seat, I would rather pay and be forefilled then be have a free snack - which is all I have ever got offered, I have yet to be on a train with the hot offer in the day.

 

[StrollerEd]

just received a reply from the complaint I made on the day of disappointment. It seems that I may not be the only one who has brought customer dissatisfaction to the attention of East Coast Mainline:

We thank you for your email.

Due to the various concurrent infrastructure and other issues beyond East Coast's direct control recently, East Coast's Customer Relations team are working as quickly as possible during this difficult time to bring our response times back in line with normal practise (5-7 working days). All correspondence received is appropriately assigned and handled in date/time order from the day it was received into the department.

Even with additional staff and extended working hours, the huge levels of correspondence received is taking time for our staff to make chronological progress.

Currently, East Coast Customer Relations are today processing the following dates of correspondence received in to the office:

Delay Repay Applications/Submissions - 28th May 2011

Emails - 22nd May 2011

Letters - 20th May 2011

This response is merely to advise that we have received your initial correspondence and will duly respond to it as soon as we possibly can. Under normal circumstances our aim is to respond to correspondence within 10 working days. (Please be aware that Royal Mail can take up to five working days to deliver post anywhere in the UK). We are currently back within this 10 working days and looking to reduce this quickly, forthwith.

We thank you for your patience and understanding whilst we address the issues of our many customers.

Shame. The point of my prompt contact with Customer Relarions was to alert them that they needed to review their new policy urgently and revert to the provision of good quality away-from-seat catering for First Class passengers in order to restore the peace and quiet of First Class seats.

 

[Failed Unit]

just received a reply from the complaint I made on the day of disappointment. It seems that I may not be the only one who has brought customer dissatisfaction to the attention of East Coast Mainline:



Shame. The point of my prompt contact with Customer Relarions was to alert them that they needed to review their new policy urgently and revert to the provision of good quality away-from-seat catering for First Class passengers in order to restore the peace and quiet of First Class seats.

I must admit they have a lot to get though when you think of all the problems they have had since the timetable start. The ones that spring to mind.

22nd May - Singal failures
23rd May - High Winds
24th May - Recovering from high winds
28th May - Grantham
29th May - York

Add all that to the numerous complaints they will get about the new service provision, I mean Skimble19 seems to be under the impression that 4 sandwiches we on offer, if other people think that they will be ****ed off when they get 2 like it or lump it as we don't have the hot option today.

The adverts at Waverley station, "From a proper breakfast to a delicious evening meal on longer journeys. Definately right about the longer Northbound journeys, but I know they have a lack of space on the averts but they don't mention the totally unsuitable all-day offering.

I wonder if people who used to use the 1600 (1630 now) or 1700 service agree - the statement is certainly misleading unless you consider the delicious evening meal as 2 sandwiches as that is all you get offered on these service (which used to have restuarants).

I also remember the days when first class used to include a newspaper, not today it doesn't. Just butter with your toast, not jam, marmilade etc any more either. Yes I am getting picky now - but I need to be when you are taking on a company that only hears what it wants to.

 

[StrollerEd]

but note that the impact of those 'events' has yet to hit this backlog, as they report the following as their progress:

Emails - 22nd May 2011

Letters - 20th May 2011

Sadly I wrote, by email, on 27 May (10 days ago). I also phoned.

 

[junglejames]

Having read through a lot of the comments post 22/5, it does seem rather dissapointing. The build up to it offered so much. Hot meals available throughout the day (unfortunately quite often not available during the day), delicious evening meals (by the sounds of it they are anything but delicious, and the choices i have seen have been quite poor). All this to the detriment of the near constant at seat supply of tea and biscuits.
Surely the best option would have been to have kept the normal at seat meal service, which was available on most services beforehand, but just not charge for it. Why this massive change? There is now a very poor offering throughout the middle of the day, and standard class loses the hot meals that used to be available in the buffet.

Now it may be that the promotion causes a massive increase in passenger numbers in 1st class, but if its as poor as made out, how long will these new passengers stay there? Not long is the probable answer.

Couple of questions. Are the evening meals freshly cooked? They arent are they? Also, people have said the new service causes a lot of disturbance in 1st class. Is this the same with Virgin? If not, how come?

 

[All Line Rover]

King of catering Virgin? Nope upto 2 weeks ago that was east coast. I would say now it is FGW.

I have to take issue with you on that point!

FGW has terrible catering in FC. Even the few Pullman services are very expensive - you could go to a nice restaurant in London for the same price!

Virgin is (currently) KING of complimentary catering. Their Breakfast and Evening Meal service on Pendolinos is excellent!