Class 397 speed limit question.

[yh00157]

hello. I am a railroad fanatic living in Korea.

While studying mechanics in high school and junior college, I also watch railroad cars.

I am writing to ask questions.

I would like to ask a question about the CAF-built Class 397 electric train.

I have checked YouTube and Wikipedia and found that it operates at a top speed of 125 mph (201 km/h).

I would like to ask a question here. In the case of this vehicle, it does not have tilting equipment, but I would like to know if it operates at 110 mph (177 km/h) on the West Coast Main Line.

Translated from Korean to English with Google Translate. There may be grammar mistakes, so please forgive me.

 

[hexagon789]

hello. I am a railroad fanatic living in Korea.

While studying mechanics in high school and junior college, I also watch railroad cars.

I am writing to ask questions.

I would like to ask a question about the CAF-built Class 397 electric train.

I have checked YouTube and Wikipedia and found that it operates at a top speed of 125 mph (201 km/h).

I would like to ask a question here. In the case of this vehicle, it does not have tilting equipment, but I would like to know if it operates at 110 mph (177 km/h) on the West Coast Main Line.

Translated from Korean to English with Google Translate. There may be grammar mistakes, so please forgive me.

Yes, the Class 397 operates at a maximum 110mph on the West Coast Main Line, as the is the maximum ordinary speed limit over the section of that route which the 397s run over.

Were there a section with a 125mph ordinary speed limit, it could run at 125mph.

 

[yh00157]

Yes, the Class 397 operates at a maximum 110mph on the West Coast Main Line, as the is the maximum ordinary speed limit over the section of that route which the 397s run over.

Were there a section with a 125mph ordinary speed limit, it could run at 125mph.

Yes. Then, the EPS speed signs only operate on trains with tilting devices. Were there EPS speed signs before the privatization of British Rail?

By the way, I happened to see it while searching for British Rail history on a Korean search engine site, and it said that there were tilting trains before privatization, but they failed.

 

[jfollows]

By the way, I happened to see it while searching for British Rail history on a Korean search engine site, and it said that there were tilting trains before privatization, but they failed.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Passenger_Train

 

[driver9000]

Yes. Then, the EPS speed signs only operate on trains with tilting devices. Were there EPS speed signs before the privatization of British Rail?

By the way, I happened to see it while searching for British Rail history on a Korean search engine site, and it said that there were tilting trains before privatization, but they failed.

No, EPS speeds came about for the introduction of the class 390 Pendolino and class 221 Voyager fleets around 2002 under the West Coast Route Modernisation project. They use a system called TASS (Tilt Authorisation and Speed Supervision) which must be in operation for them to travel at the EPS limits.

The prototype tilting train British Rail built known as the Advanced Passenger Train had an in cab display which gave the Driver authority to travel at higher speeds. This system was known as C-APT and used track mounted transponders (many of which are still in place today if you know where to look for them).

 

[hexagon789]

Were there EPS speed signs before the privatization of British Rail?

APT speeds existed for the Advanced Passenger Train, small yellow signs with "APT" and the speed underneath in black.

tilting trains before privatization, but they failed.

Yes, the Advanced Passenger Train or APT. It did run intermittently in Passenger service for a year in 1984-5, otherwise pretty mostly only on test or press runs.

The prototype tilting train British Rail built known as the Advanced Passenger Train had an in cab display which gave the Driver authority to travel at higher speeds. This system was known as C-APT and used track mounted transponders (many of which are still in place today if you know where to look for them).

There were also trackside APT speed signs as well.

 

[DanNCL]

I seem to recall there was talk of allowing 397s, along with 805s and 807s, to run at 125mph on sections of the WCML. Is that still proposed or has it been quietly dropped?

The prototype tilting train British Rail built known as the Advanced Passenger Train had an in cab display which gave the Driver authority to travel at higher speeds. This system was known as C-APT and used track mounted transponders (many of which are still in place today if you know where to look for them).

Does this mean that, hypothetically, C-APT would still work if the surviving APT were re-activated and ran along the WCML today?

I’m well aware it’ll never happen just had me wondering!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I seem to recall there was talk of allowing 397s, along with 805s and 807s, to run at 125mph on sections of the WCML. Is that still proposed or has it been quietly dropped?

It is certainly still ongoing, the preparatory work on the southern WCML is completed and the signage bagged over awaiting activation. There is, however, a row ongoing about whether 80x will be permitted to run at the enhanced speeds without TASS. So currently they are running at the base linespeeds, which is causing a fair amount of delay day-to-day as they are introduced onto 221 diagrams timed to run at EPS linespeeds.

 

[yh00157]

No, EPS speeds came about for the introduction of the class 390 Pendolino and class 221 Voyager fleets around 2002 under the West Coast Route Modernisation project. They use a system called TASS (Tilt Authorisation and Speed Supervision) which must be in operation for them to travel at the EPS limits.

The prototype tilting train British Rail built known as the Advanced Passenger Train had an in cab display which gave the Driver authority to travel at higher speeds. This system was known as C-APT and used track mounted transponders (many of which are still in place today if you know where to look for them).

Okay. For your information, South Korea was planning to introduce tilting trains, but it was canceled due to track conditions.

The existing tracks will be completely relocated.

A representative route for relocating aging lines is the Jungang Line (Cheongnyangni-Bujeon).

Like the West Coast Main Line, there are mountainous areas in Gangwon-do (Wonju), Chungcheongbuk-do (Jecheon, Danyang), and Gyeongsangbuk-do (Yeongju, Andong).

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungang_line

 

[Jamesrob637]

Can a 397 run faster than 110 in case of disruption?

 

[driver9000]

Can a 397 run faster than 110 in case of disruption?

No. They can only exceed 110mph where the non EPS permitted speed is above 110mph which isn't the case on their normal routes.

 

[Chris Hamilton]

A 397 does however have a much greater acceleration than a 390 and can brake in shorter distances too, so the difference in timings over the WCML north of Preston (where EPS 125mph running makes up only about a quarter of the mileage) are so small as to not be worth the effort to change the infrastructure to accommodate such a small fleet. This may change when the Pendolino fleet is eventually replaced with the HS2 compatible fleet, which would also be limited to 110mph north of Preston.

Much like with the introduction of the HST, modern trains may be able to travel faster on some curves, so there may be a few places where speeds can be raised for non EPS, non freight trains. However, the other option to speed up trains, superelevation (or cant) on curves, cannot be altered much on the WCML due to the use of it by heavy freight (which rapidly accelerates rail wear on high superelevated curves).

As an aside, I’d like to see a few quid of the “HS2 Dividend” promised to the North being used to iron out a few of the slowest parts of the WCML around Cumbria and in Lanarkshire, extending some of the passing loops so freight can enter them faster, and fixing the bridge at Penrith that cant have two trains on it at once. But that’s just a pipe dream.

 

[TheGrew]

As an aside, I’d like to see a few quid of the “HS2 Dividend” promised to the North being used to iron out a few of the slowest parts of the WCML around Cumbria and in Lanarkshire, extending some of the passing loops so freight can enter them faster, and fixing the bridge at Penrith that cant have two trains on it at once. But that’s just a pipe dream.

I would have thought a tunnel from Oxenholme to somewhere north of Penrith would have benefits for both express passengers and freight the height profile would appear to agree with me in regards to the portals. It would be rather a long tunnel though!