Incident at Talerddig, Wales - 21/10/2024

[Harpo]

You’ll be aware of the Salisbury incident, I presume?

Very much aware. Just querying the assertion that Talerddig is also due to wheel slide.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Now featuring on BBC News website

Train crash Wales: Passenger dies and 15 hurt as two trains crash

A westbound train went about 1,000 metres beyond its stopping point to hit a stationary service.

www.bbc.co.uk

The coach next to the Police vehicles in the picture would suggest that thankfully most of the passengers are able to travel without needing an ambulance

 

[hexagon789]

Very much aware. Just querying the assertion that Talerddig is also due to wheel slide.

The line had already had reports of low adhesion through the course of the day, including at the collision location.

 

[Llanigraham]

3 air ambulances/coastguard copters have landed there so far, info from flight radar.

This is an area with no large hospital within an hour's journey time and with few ambulances available at this time of night, so if a major incident is called it is not unusual to get a response like this.

 

[Towers]

Very much aware. Just querying the assertion that Talerddig is also due to wheel slide.

That’s a fair point; noted!

 

[12LDA28C]

Very much aware. Just querying the assertion that Talerddig is also due to wheel slide.

Internal sources suggest this is the case

 

[WAB]

I highly doubt it, the lack of two 158s sure, but they can't be used on the Cambrian, so what's the use? I mean, you could just swap them in and out on Birmingham runs but that'd be odd.

Set swaps at Shrewsbury? It’s something that has increasingly been required due to 158 availability.

 

[Tilting007]

The line had already had reports of low adhesion through the course of the day, including at the collision location.

Safe bet with Autumn here.
I would be very surprised if it wasn’t linked to adhesion.

 

[P Binnersley]

Rail head treatment train went through late yesterday (both directions). Was due again this evening, but presumably cancelled.

 

[Proposedlines]

The A470 at Talerddig is closed
Source: Google Maps

Realtime Trains is showing some cambrian line trains are cancelled except for the 158s involved

The A470 at Talerddig is closed
Source: Google Maps
[

The A470 at Talerddig is closed
Source: Google Maps
[

Oops my bad

 

[800Travel]

Are the units on the track or derailed does anyone know?

 

[Proposedlines]

Are the units on the track or derailed does anyone know?

It was a low speed collision so probably on the track

 

[357]

Are the units on the track or derailed does anyone know?

Latest report I've seen implies they are on the track but severe damage to the front ends. At least one driver was unable to exit the cab.

 

[alexl92]

I don’t want to trigger any unhelpful speculation but just purely from an operationaL point of view, factually how do both end up in the same side of a loop if travelling opposite directions? Surely if one had entered one side of the loop, the points should have prevented the other from accessing the same piece of track? Or have I misunderstood?

 

[WirralLine]

I don’t want to trigger any unhelpful speculation but just purely from an operationaL point of view, factually how do both end up in the same side of a loop if travelling opposite directions? Surely if one had entered one side of the loop, the points should have prevented the other from accessing the same piece of track? Or have I misunderstood?

I believe one was supposed to stop in the loop, was unable to stop resulting in a SPAD and fouling the path of the approaching train - from what I've read anyway. Can't confirm for certain, and happy to be corrected.

 

[357]

I don’t want to trigger any unhelpful speculation but just purely from an operationaL point of view, factually how do both end up in the same side of a loop if travelling opposite directions? Surely if one had entered one side of the loop, the points should have prevented the other from accessing the same piece of track? Or have I misunderstood?

I believe one slid through the loop and out the other end

 

[Belperpete]

The line had already had reports of low adhesion through the course of the day, including at the collision location.

Indeed, and Journeycheck shows that "Due to slippery rails at Dovey Junction trains have to run at reduced speed on the line." imposed at 09:22 am. The Cambrian was in the Yellow Weather warning area for Storm Ashley. All the deciduous trees near me were stripped bare yesterday, piles of leaves everywhere.

Are up and down trains allowed to enter Tallerddig loop simultaneously? I remember that with RETB, trains could enter loops simultaneously, but after resignalling with ETCS this was no longer possible at some loops. I have been on trains that have been held outside some of the loops on the Coast line waiting for the train we were crossing to enter the loop first, for example, but can't ever recall being held outside Tallerddig.

 

[TDK]

Let's just say rail head contamination is being considered, as part of investigations.

NRE references an operational incident.

View attachment 167688
Image shows a screenshot from National Rail Enquiries.

Have you got evidence to back up your guess?

So, speculation on wheel slide, has anyone got any factual evidence or are you guessing, just wait for the official investigation

 

[greatkingrat]

I'm surprised the loop doesn't have trap points to prevent this?

 

[liamf656]

x.com

x.com

uh oh, two trains collide in #powys #traincrash

Photos from the scene attached showing both trains imbedded in one another, with serious damage to the cab of one unit, credited to the Twitter poster in the link

 

[Dieseldriver]

I'm surprised the loop doesn't have trap points to prevent this?

Many loops aren’t fitted with trap points.

 

[John Luxton]

SAdly one confirmed fatality reported by Cambrian News

Dyfed-Powys Police has confirmed a man has died following the train collision on the Cambrian line on Monday evening, with a further 15 people being taken to hospital.

A spokesperson said: “We can confirm one person has died following a collision between two trains, which occurred near Llanbrynmair in Powys this evening.

https://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/new...g-two-train-collision-on-cambrian-line-732362

 

[357]

I'm surprised the loop doesn't have trap points to prevent this?

TPWS or the equivalent with the in-cab signalling system should have the same protection.

 

[D365]

SAdly one confirmed fatality reported by Cambrian News

https://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/new...g-two-train-collision-on-cambrian-line-732362

BBC’s article has been similarly updated:

A man has died following a low-speed collision involving two trains in Wales, British Transport Police have confirmed. A further 15 people have been taken to hospital with injuries not believed to be life-threatening, with emergency services at the scene.

The crash happened near the village of Llanbrynmair, in Powys, at around 19:30 BST on Monday. It involved the 18:31 BST service from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth and the 19:09 service from Machynlleth to Shrewsbury.

Residents reported a large emergency services presence including road ambulances and an air ambulance. A coastguard helicopter was also at the scene, as well as firefighters. British Transport Police is understood to be in charge of the incident. It said the crash happened at "low-speed .

Writing on X earlier, Welsh First Minister Eluned Morgan said: "My thoughts are with all those involved in the rail incident in Powys earlier this evening.

"I would like to thank the emergency services for their response and have asked to be kept informed of any developments throughout the night."

 

[Russel]

Given the same was said after the Salisbury incident, I wouldn't bet your life savings on it happening.

But I'm sure we'll all be told "Lessons have been learnt."

 

[RJ]

I highly doubt it, the lack of two 158s sure, but they can't be used on the Cambrian, so what's the use? I mean, you could just swap them in and out on Birmingham runs but that'd be odd.

Without having any knowledge of the technical side of the units, what’s the feasibility of running a 4 car hybrid set with a 150 sandwiched between two 158 cars? Would the 150 need to be fitted with extra equipment for the signalling system?

And if it is possible, would such a formation be able to keep time between Shrewsbury and Dovey Junction?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Without having any knowledge of the technical side of the units, what’s the feasibility of running a 4 car hybrid set with a 150 sandwiched between two 158 cars? Would the 150 need to be fitted with extra equipment for the signalling system?

And if it is possible, would such a formation be able to keep time between Shrewsbury and Dovey Junction?

At the very least, yes, because the Cambrian is exclusively 158 operated.

It maybe the case of 150s and 153s being used on the Birmingham to Shrewsbury section, but even with some of the 150s having gone already, the South Wales Valleys are starting to be very thin on the ground in terms of available units. Sooner the 756s enter service the better.

But all of this isn't really the appropriate time. My thoughts go out to all affected by this nasty incident.

 

[12LDA28C]

Have you got evidence to back up your guess?

So, speculation on wheel slide, has anyone got any factual evidence or are you guessing, just wait for the official investigation

No need to guess. See post #38.

TPWS or the equivalent with the insurance can signalling system should have the same protection.

Really? Please explain how TPWS provides any protection if a train is sliding with the brakes fully applied?

 

[357]

Really? Please explain how TPWS provides any protection if a train is sliding with the brakes fully applied?

Note the word "should" in my post.

 

[InkyScrolls]

What an awful tragedy. A fatality at such low speed as well (comparatively) - very unusual. The RAIB report will be interesting I'm sure. If low adhesion is found to be the cause it will hopefully lead to improved vegetation management. Notice I say hopefully!