Should Fridays be made "off peak" all day?

[HamworthyGoods]

That's an interesting point, and I dare say there may be a few extras that need to be retained for that reason. However, I dare say in a lot of areas a Saturday type service pattern might be appropriate.

It’s been looked at before and there’s way more than a ‘few extras’ needed to cater for the student traffic especially around 16.00 in the afternoon, it’s not easy to just fit into a Saturday type service pattern.

That is why most of the Friday peak variants to respond to lower commuter numbers are simple formation changes - 8 v 12 etc.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I have an annual season ticket and never travel for leisure purposes. It’s almost certainly cheaper for me to muck around with a combination of other tickets as I am iften not in the office one day a week whether that’s WFH or on site. In addition holidays, multi day conferences etc mean that if I planned my travel correctly I could travel for less than the annual cost.

If Fridays become an off peak day then the incentive to not buy an annual becomes even higher, just arrange for my day out the office to be one of the other days and only pay for 2 peak and 1 off peak day travel

 

[BazingaTribe]

@HamworthyGoods -- (and pinging @yorksrob and @Chrisgr31 as it's their arguments I'm also piggybacking off) -- I completely agree. Reducing services on commuter lines would be problematic, particularly because many people still work or need to go in to the office on a Friday. Only around a quarter of the workforce can work from home at all, never mind are permitted to do by their employers, who are seeing the drawbacks of perma-remote work.

In the early stages of the pandemic lockdown, the logistics of getting to and from work suddenly became more anxiety-inducing for me than the actual virus was. The day before full lockdown was imposed, only one train every two hours was calling at Reading West, and I was actually signed off sick at work (from the NHS so decent leave allowance, although I'm not clinical- or patient-facing, so I didn't get the assistance given to clinicians who needed to stay away from their families due to working with contamination) due to both the panic attacks and the lack of transport between Basingstoke and Reading.

Whatever you think about removing peak time on Friday morning, it would be therefore erroneous to conclude that Friday morning is a sensible time to reduce services. It would simply feel a bit out of touch with the way things still generally need to work and how season tickets are still useful for those who are five days in office (a lot of auxiliary administrative staff and receptionists etc).

 

[yorksrob]

I have an annual season ticket and never travel for leisure purposes. It’s almost certainly cheaper for me to muck around with a combination of other tickets as I am iften not in the office one day a week whether that’s WFH or on site. In addition holidays, multi day conferences etc mean that if I planned my travel correctly I could travel for less than the annual cost.

If Fridays become an off peak day then the incentive to not buy an annual becomes even higher, just arrange for my day out the office to be one of the other days and only pay for 2 peak and 1 off peak day travel

You would be part of a trend that's already been growing for years in that case. Different people will have their own "break even" points where a season becomes cost effective (or otherwise).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2024 ==

@HamworthyGoods -- (and pinging @yorksrob and @Chrisgr31 as it's their arguments I'm also piggybacking off) -- I completely agree. Reducing services on commuter lines would be problematic, particularly because many people still work or need to go in to the office on a Friday. Only around a quarter of the workforce can work from home at all, never mind are permitted to do by their employers, who are seeing the drawbacks of perma-remote work.

In the early stages of the pandemic lockdown, the logistics of getting to and from work suddenly became more anxiety-inducing for me than the actual virus was. The day before full lockdown was imposed, only one train every two hours was calling at Reading West, and I was actually signed off sick at work (from the NHS so decent leave allowance, although I'm not clinical- or patient-facing, so I didn't get the assistance given to clinicians who needed to stay away from their families due to working with contamination) due to both the panic attacks and the lack of transport between Basingstoke and Reading.

Whatever you think about removing peak time on Friday morning, it would be therefore erroneous to conclude that Friday morning is a sensible time to reduce services. It would simply feel a bit out of touch with the way things still generally need to work and how season tickets are still useful for those who are five days in office (a lot of auxiliary administrative staff and receptionists etc).

I agree, peak provision should primarily be based on a basis of need. But if there really are some areas where the peak demand on Fridays is 47% of other weekdays, its not inconceivable that a less peak oriented timetable could be implemented in some cases.

Either way, I don't believe this negates the merit of binning the peak fare on Fridays.

 

[brad465]

How about a compromise? Peak fares remain on Friday, but on Fridays all railcards apply regardless of fare value and month.

 

[yorksrob]

How about a compromise? Peak fares remain on Friday, on Fridays but all railcards apply regardless of fare value and month.

As one of those who's the wrong age for a railcard I'm afraid that's going to light my blue touchpaper. If there were a national railcard, I might consider it !

 

[xotGD]

Also I would expect that on a Friday afternoon, a lot of people will be travelling counter to the peak (i.e. into the city for their entertainment, rather than home) and so this peak wouldn't be as intense.

Certainly the case in Leeds. On a Friday afternoon the commuters are swimming against the tide of party animals coming into town.

In addition, as well as fewer commuters, on a Friday more will be heading for after work drinks, spreading the homeward journeys to later in the evening.

 

[renegademaster]

Outside of London where contactless is probably the most used, students are most likely using season tickets*, so this is a bit moot.

* Or Northern Advances on a 16-25 Railcard, but people doing that instead of seasons was *definitely not* an intended use case of allowing Advances without the minimum fare!

University students only ever really come into campus 3 or less days a week for most courses, so I wouldn't be surprised if most aren't using singles or returns rather than season tickets

 

[Bletchleyite]

University students only ever really come into campus 3 or less days a week for most courses, so I wouldn't be surprised if most aren't using singles or returns rather than season tickets

That isn't my experience at all. You rarely get a full day, but most will have something on at least most days of the week, even given that a lot of lectures are probably now delivered online rather than in the traditional lecture theatre.

A lot are probably using Northern Advances, though. Very often on the wrong train/pre 1000 with Railcard (the latter is, confusingly, allowed).

 

[Topological]

That isn't my experience at all. You rarely get a full day, but most will have something on at least most days of the week, even given that a lot of lectures are probably now delivered online rather than in the traditional lecture theatre.

A lot are probably using Northern Advances, though. Very often on the wrong train/pre 1000 with Railcard (the latter is, confusingly, allowed).

I am not aware that we have anything online, but that does not mean that there is nothing on other courses or at other institutions.

Many degree programmes also require 18 hours per week of contact for undergraduates (although the total number of weeks is lower than that of those with 12 hours per week, making the total number of taught hours similar).

The university that comes to mind with student flows is Bristol, where apparently there are students having to find accommodation in Newport.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Bristol does have a very high student population. My daughter is at UWE, year 1 she was in for at least part of the day on 3 days, for 1st term in year 2 she was in for part of the day on 2 or 3 days a week (depending on week) but from January she’ll be in on part of 4 or 5 days.

Accommodation in Bristol is not cheap, al a lot has been built recently. It may be cost effective to come in from Newport!