December 2024 timetable change

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What about the 166s on the locals and North Downs, is it still enforced?

Depends if @Deepgreen has sent any emails lately

 

[DaveHarries]

One thing I have noticed from TfW is that many of the Ebbw Vale Town - Cardiff Central and Maesteg - Cardiff Central workings are combined into through trains operating Maesteg - Ebbw Vale Town. The Sunday ones, along with one or two of the Monday to Saturday ones, to / from Ebbw Vale operate between Ebbw Vale and Cardiff Central only.

From GWR, and according to a board I saw recently at Exeter St. Davids, an extra working is added to the Kemble route in the guise of newly introduced 1K00 (0846 Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Temple Meads which will not call at Gloucester but will serve all stations Stonehouse to Swindon and also call at Chippenham and Bath Spa before running fast to Bristol TM). The RTT website advises this is booked as an IET which will work ECS from Worcester and will reduce a gap of an hour which exists between trains on the Kemble line on Saturdays.

Realtime Trains | 1K00 0846 Cheltenham Spa to Bristol Temple Meads | 21/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1K00 0846 departure from Cheltenham Spa to Bristol Temple Meads on 21/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Meanwhile, and still on the topic of TfW and GWR, the same board I saw at Exeter St. Davids also said that, starting from 15th December, "some services will be amended by up to 11 minutes due to significant changes to Transport for Wales services in South Wales."

Dave

 

[JonathanH]

For the North Downs, I'm told that 'stopping' services have 1st declassified yet 'fast' (skipping half of the Wokingham-Guildford stations and some alternate calls) are maintained. Personal observations from a short trip on Monday noted the fast trains having the 1st class doors working as usual but left fully open on the stoppers.

All of the trains on the North Downs are stoppers in some way now, one side of other of Guildford, so I am not sure the distinction you suggest actually applies.

 

[OliverH68]

Apologies but as this thread is now over 19 pages and 570 posts long - is there, and what changes are due for us on the South Western?

No major changes. Just a bunch of tidying up & some polishing across the board.

 

[The exile]

One thing I have noticed from TfW is that many of the Ebbw Vale Town - Cardiff Central and Maesteg - Cardiff Central workings are combined into through trains operating Maesteg - Ebbw Vale Town. The Sunday ones, along with one or two of the Monday to Saturday ones, to / from Ebbw Vale operate between Ebbw Vale and Cardiff Central only.

From GWR, and according to a board I saw recently at Exeter St. Davids, an extra working is added to the Kemble route in the guise of newly introduced 1K00 (0846 Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Temple Meads which will not call at Gloucester but will serve all stations Stonehouse to Swindon and also call at Chippenham and Bath Spa before running fast to Bristol TM). The RTT website advises this is booked as an IET which will work ECS from Worcester and will reduce a gap of an hour which exists between trains on the Kemble line on Saturdays.

It will also boost capacity into Bath and Bristol at peak Saturday shopping trip time.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It will also boost capacity into Bath and Bristol at peak Saturday shopping trip time.

And relieve the very popular 0859 Cheltenham-Paddington which is often standing-room only from Stroud and Kemble. I wonder how long it is since either station had a direct train to Bath and Bristol - if ever?

 

[Kite159]

..

One thing I have noticed from TfW is that many of the Ebbw Vale Town - Cardiff Central and Maesteg - Cardiff Central workings are combined into through trains operating Maesteg - Ebbw Vale Town. The Sunday ones, along with one or two of the Monday to Saturday ones, to / from Ebbw Vale operate between Ebbw Vale and Cardiff Central only.

From GWR, and according to a board I saw recently at Exeter St. Davids, an extra working is added to the Kemble route in the guise of newly introduced 1K00 (0846 Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Temple Meads which will not call at Gloucester but will serve all stations Stonehouse to Swindon and also call at Chippenham and Bath Spa before running fast to Bristol TM). The RTT website advises this is booked as an IET which will work ECS from Worcester and will reduce a gap of an hour which exists between trains on the Kemble line on Saturdays.

Realtime Trains | 1K00 0846 Cheltenham Spa to Bristol Temple Meads | 21/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1K00 0846 departure from Cheltenham Spa to Bristol Temple Meads on 21/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Meanwhile, and still on the topic of TfW and GWR, the same board I saw at Exeter St. Davids also said that, starting from 15th December, "some services will be amended by up to 11 minutes due to significant changes to Transport for Wales services in South Wales."

Dave

Hasn't Ebbw Vale - Maesteg been tried before (maybe before Covid hit) as it made sense with the timings?
Hopefully there will be some recovery time built into the timetable so delays from Ebbw Vale don't snowball to Maesteg services (or vice versa when a train from Maesteg is delayed at the junction to await a late running fast train to go in front).

 

[hexagon789]

..


Hasn't Ebbw Vale - Maesteg been tried before (maybe before Covid hit) as it made sense with the timings?
Hopefully there will be some recovery time built into the timetable so delays from Ebbw Vale don't snowball to Maesteg services (or vice versa when a train from Maesteg is delayed at the junction to await a late running fast train to go in front).

3 min turnaround at Maesteg, 4 mins at Ebbw Vale Town. There's also a 7 min dwell at Cardiff Central going from Ebbw Vale to Maesteg, with 4 mins dwell the other way.

Turnarounds seem a bit tight to allow much in the way of service recovery for more than modest delays.

 

[Bald Rick]

3 min turnaround at Maesteg, 4 mins at Ebbw Vale Town. There's also a 7 min dwell at Cardiff Central going from Ebbw Vale to Maesteg, with 4 mins dwell the other way.

Turnarounds seem a bit tight to allow much in the way of service recovery for more than modest delays.

at Ebbw Vale it’s a 6 min turnround in the WTT; 4 mins is the public time. Similarly 5 v 3 at Maesteg.

Also the Cardiff WTT arrivals are 2 mins earlier than public, so in total there’s 26 mins dwell per circuit at those three locations; still pretty tight but much better than it seems.

 

[hexagon789]

at Ebbw Vale it’s a 6 min turnround in the WTT; 4 mins is the public time. Similarly 5 v 3 at Maesteg.

Also the Cardiff WTT arrivals are 2 mins earlier than public, so in total there’s 26 mins dwell per circuit at those three locations; still pretty tight but much better than it seems.

That is a bit healthier. Also a few mins of engineering and performance allowances here and there, so perhaps 28/29 mins worth of recovery in all then?

 

[anthony263]

at Ebbw Vale it’s a 6 min turnround in the WTT; 4 mins is the public time. Similarly 5 v 3 at Maesteg.

Also the Cardiff WTT arrivals are 2 mins earlier than public, so in total there’s 26 mins dwell per circuit at those three locations; still pretty tight but much better than it seems.

The last train from Maesteg runs as a shuttle to Bridgend before forming the 2345 Bridgend to Maesteg service using bay platform 3

 

[barbette165]

The Maesteg to Ebbw Vale and Ebbw Vale to Maesteg trains pass at Cardiff Central, so if one line is subject to major delays, it would be relative easy to split the services to maintain acceptable performance on the other branch.

 

[FenMan]

All of the trains on the North Downs are stoppers in some way now, one side of other of Guildford, so I am not sure the distinction you suggest actually applies.

In my experience, as a regular user of the North Downs, First Class is enforced.

First Class was declassified for a while a few years ago, then it was enforced again.

When it was declassified GWR continued to happily sell long distance 1st Class Advances via Reading to Gatwick and may have received some pretty robust complaints as a consequence!

 

[xxjcz]

Anyone got any idea what diagrams the 700/0’s will be working on the GN after the Dec timetable change?

 

[Starmill]

..


Hasn't Ebbw Vale - Maesteg been tried before (maybe before Covid hit) as it made sense with the timings?
Hopefully there will be some recovery time built into the timetable so delays from Ebbw Vale don't snowball to Maesteg services (or vice versa when a train from Maesteg is delayed at the junction to await a late running fast train to go in front).

It's been the advertised end state for all services, with the de-linking from the Cheltenham Spa route, since at least 2020, so it may be that you're thinking of.

Before the pandemic most of the daytime trains were extended to Bridgend in the May 2020 timetable, as an intermediate step, but this ended up not actually happening.

 

[miklcct]

There isn't one uploaded yet. The time has changed over the years. In the 1990s it was a down train in the morning peak. More recently it was 1550 from Streatham Hill to London Bridge, first with VEPs and then 455s.

The parliamentary service will depart at 17:20 Monday - Friday in the new timetable.

 

[Markdvdman]

TFW really need to do something about the morning timetable from Carmarthen east! There is a 6:15am Llanelli to Manchester train. The next one is then a Cardiff service at 7:22am. They used to do a 6:45am service crazy to take that out as the 7:22am is almost always a 2 car service that gets rammed i tell you!

 

[30907]

TFW really need to do something about the morning timetable from Carmarthen east! There is a 6:15am Llanelli to Manchester train. The next one is then a Cardiff service at 7:22am. They used to do a 6:45am service crazy to take that out as the 7:22am is almost always a 2 car service that gets rammed i tell you!

There seems to be an 0655 ex LLE in the new timetable.

 

[LTJ87]

EMR has issued a press release promising improved journey times on some Sunday morning Intercity services to / from London St Pancras:

New Intercity timetable provides quicker Sunday services for those travelling between South Yorkshire, the East Midlands and London | East Midlands Railway News

12 Sunday morning services will see significant journey time improvements of between nine and 28 minutes Changes will benefit both northbound and southbound travellers Faster services will offer even greater convenience for those travelling between South Yorkshire, the East Midlands, and London

news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

East Midlands Railway (EMR) is to offer significantly improved Sunday Intercity journey times as part of its December timetable change.

From Sunday, 15th December, 12 Sunday services will benefit from quicker journeys, with some services on the Midland Main Line being cut by as much as 28 minutes—benefiting those travelling between South Yorkshire, the East Midlands, and London.

The enhancements, which are made possible by working in collaboration with Network Rail, will require the closure of tracks for maintenance and will result in the removal of two early Sunday morning services. This will give Network Rail more time to carry out maintenance work and ensure trains run safely and reliably.

Two Sunday morning services will also be removed:

• 07:00 Derby to London St Pancras
• 07:24 Nottingham to London St Pancras

 

[miklcct]

EMR has issued a press release promising improved journey times on some Sunday morning Intercity services to / from London St Pancras:

New Intercity timetable provides quicker Sunday services for those travelling between South Yorkshire, the East Midlands and London | East Midlands Railway News

12 Sunday morning services will see significant journey time improvements of between nine and 28 minutes Changes will benefit both northbound and southbound travellers Faster services will offer even greater convenience for those travelling between South Yorkshire, the East Midlands, and London

news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Two Sunday morning services will also be removed:

• 07:00 Derby to London St Pancras
• 07:24 Nottingham to London St Pancras

What is the alternative transport for the removed early morning services?

 

[JonathanH]

What is the alternative transport for the removed early morning services?

There isn't any. In practice, the later trains being sped up would appear to mean that passengers aren't fully inconvenienced.

 

[A S Leib]

There isn't any. In practice, the later trains being sped up would appear to mean that passengers aren't fully inconvenienced.

The first arrival at St. Pancras from Leicester this Sunday is the 09:16 from Derby (then an 09:42 from East Midlands Parkway, I'm guessing normally from Nottingham); first arrivals on 9th February (first Sunday which doesn't seem to have engineering works) are 09:50 from Derby and 10:15 from Nottingham.

 

[dk1]

The first arrival at St. Pancras from Leicester this Sunday is the 09:16 from Derby (then an 09:42 from East Midlands Parkway, I'm guessing normally from Nottingham); first arrivals on 9th February (first Sunday which doesn't seem to have engineering works) are 09:50 from Derby and 10:15 from Nottingham.

Not too bad and the greater benefit from faster following services.

 

[Nottingham59]

What is the alternative transport for the removed early morning services?

i assume wait for the next train. How busy are these services on a Sunday morning?

 

[JonathanH]

The first arrival at St. Pancras from Leicester this Sunday is the 09:16 from Derby (then an 09:42 from East Midlands Parkway, I'm guessing normally from Nottingham); first arrivals on 9th February (first Sunday which doesn't seem to have engineering works) are 09:50 from Derby and 10:15 from Nottingham.

0620, 0650 and 0715 National Express coaches from Leicester reach Victoria at 0850, 0920 and 0950, currently available for £4.90 on 9 February if someone really needs to get to London before 0950.

The availability of alternative transport at less than the cost of the train certainly illustrates why it isn't the role of the railway itself to fill the gap with its own alternative transport if the route is no longer available early on.

 

[43074]

0620, 0650 and 0715 National Express coaches from Leicester reach Victoria at 0850, 0920 and 0950, currently available for £4.90 on 9 February if someone really needs to get to London before 0950.

The availability of alternative transport at less than the cost of the train certainly illustrates why it isn't the role of the railway itself to fill the gap with its own alternative transport if the route is no longer available early on.

Or from a more positive point of view you could argue the fact there are 3 coaches departing Leicester for London before 0730 on a Sunday morning illustrates there is probably a market to be served by earlier Sunday morning services if the railway provided them.

That said, faster journey times on Sunday morning are very welcome though.

 

[43055]

EMR has issued a press release promising improved journey times on some Sunday morning Intercity services to / from London St Pancras:

New Intercity timetable provides quicker Sunday services for those travelling between South Yorkshire, the East Midlands and London | East Midlands Railway News

12 Sunday morning services will see significant journey time improvements of between nine and 28 minutes Changes will benefit both northbound and southbound travellers Faster services will offer even greater convenience for those travelling between South Yorkshire, the East Midlands, and London

news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Two Sunday morning services will also be removed:

• 07:00 Derby to London St Pancras
• 07:24 Nottingham to London St Pancras

Presumably the timetable is now 4 track all day on Sundays then.

Also another article for the restoration of the full hourly service on the Crewe - Newark services.

December timetable change: Regional service boost for Crewe to Newark Castle route | East Midlands Railway News

December timetable changes will mean route extensions and more services on weekdays and Saturdays Eight services added and two weekday services extended Another step forward to help support customers and communities across the regional network

news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

East Midlands Railway (EMR) is set to increase the number of services on its Crewe to Newark Castle route, helping to improve options for customers and better connect communities.

From Monday, December 15, the Newark Castle to Crewe route will see eight services added and two weekday services extended.

Will Rogers, Managing Director at East Midlands Railway, said: “We’re always looking for better ways to match our timetable with the trips our customers want to make.

"But any changes need to take into account a number of factors, including the allocation of necessary funding, maintaining levels of performance (punctuality), and operational feasibility.

"Thankfully, these requirements have been met, and we are delighted to be able to provide a boost in services for our customers on the Crewe to Newark Castle line.

"It is great news for the communities of Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Staffordshire and Cheshire, as well as businesses up and down the line – especially on Saturdays."

PDF's of EMR's timetables are also on the website.

 

[Warrior2852]

East Midlands Railway (EMR) is set to increase the number of services on its Crewe to Newark Castle route, helping to improve options for customers and better connect communities.

From Monday, December 15, the Newark Castle to Crewe route will see eight services added and two weekday services extended.

Oh thank goodness, the random 2 hour gaps on that route were a pain.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

PDF's of EMR's timetables are also on the website

Unfortunately, on Monday to Friday, they haven't bothered to show that there's a direct London - Melton Mowbray service in each direction. The Melton Mowbray trains are just shown as running between Kettering and Melton Mowbray.

 

[Bald Rick]

What is the alternative transport for the removed early morning services?

It’s called a “lie in”.