Shrewsbury Connection

[keithboddey]

Travelled from Ludlow to Birmingham International last Saturday Morning.
Had a 9 minute connection at Shrewsbury, arrive 7.21 depart 7.30.
Was 4 minutes late and was routed into platform 3. This platform requires a flight of stairs down, a ticket barrier and a flight of stairs up to the Birmingham Train.
Arrived just in time to see it leaving dead on time ! Not held for even 2 minutes !

Next service was an all stations to Birmingham New Street 35 minutes later !

Arrival at International was 55 minutes late.

Delay repay and a complaint has gone into Tfw.

I will keep you posted.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Believe most, if not all, TfW trains from Ludlow headed for Holyhead/Llandudno Junction will be using platform 3 at Shrewsbury. Which begs the question, is the five minutes official connection time at Shrewsbury sufficient for most folk to cross over from platform 3 to the rest of the station; IMHO it's a particularly awkward interchange!

 

[Bevan Price]

Believe most, if not all, TfW trains from Ludlow headed for Holyhead/Llandudno Junction will be using platform 3 at Shrewsbury. Which begs the question, is the five minutes official connection time at Shrewsbury sufficient for most folk to cross over from platform 3 to the rest of the station; IMHO it's a particularly awkward interchange!

Just about possible if you are called Usain Bolt and are not carrying luggage. I would not rely on any connection less than 15 minutes.

 

[1D54]

Thought the same myself yesterday having come off a TfW service from New Street then having to go down the stairs, through the barriers, out of the station then back up for a Holyhead train. Okay things weren't helped by a large number of Birmingham City fans going through the barriers at the same time but if this is a tight connection and you are slow or carrying bags then you simply won't make it. There must be a better way for planners to handle this.

 

[Meole]

Is there a lift down from 3 for disabled ? memory suggests an extended ramp. You leave the station from 3 by stairs anyway, negotiate entry to the station through potential queue of ticket buyers, arrive at the small barrier, the stairs top or lift exit is still a fair distance from 5 and 6.

 

[John Luxton]

I have travelled through Shrewsbury quite a lot from Chester in the last 3 years and then heading along the Cambrian or to points south and I agree a change which involved Platform 3 can be a right pain. However, I have noticed they do try to avoid using P3. I have been there when I have made my way to P3 and it has been changed to P4 or P4 has been shown as a change to a previously advertised P3 departure. It does seem to be the Platform of last resort. However, I do always check on RTT the platforms before arrival and get to the doors handy for a quick sprint! Also hope the barrier staff are not answering some complicated travel query which is causing a bottle neck!

 

[ExpressTrain]

Is there a lift down from 3 for disabled ? memory suggests an extended ramp. You leave the station from 3 by stairs anyway, negotiate entry to the station through potential queue of ticket buyers, arrive at the small barrier, the stairs top or lift exit is still a fair distance from 5 and 6.

Yes there is a lift to platform 3, it’s on the other side of the main entrance to the stairs.

I have travelled through Shrewsbury quite a lot from Chester in the last 3 years and then heading along the Cambrian or to points south and I agree a change which involved Platform 3 can be a right pain. However, I have noticed they do try to avoid using P3. I have been there when I have made my way to P3 and it has been changed to P4 or P4 has been shown as a change to a previously advertised P3 departure. It does seem to be the Platform of last resort. However, I do always check on RTT the platforms before arrival and get to the doors handy for a quick sprint! Also hope the barrier staff are not answering some complicated travel query which is causing a bottle neck!

The platforms don’t update on the RTT site for Shrewsbury, presumably because of the semaphore signalling. National Rail or the TIGER Worldline departure boards are the best for live platform info.

 

[nwales58]

Using platform 3 for most of the Chester-bound services appears to be Network Rail's intention.

I can't find the article now, there was a report of an 'impress the MP/MS' session where NR mentioned work to increase axle loading on the bridge to allow loco-hauled services into platform 3 to increase capacity now that West Midlands need two platforms for part of every hour.

Unfortunately our elected representatives are not reported to have asked about passenger convenience, interchange times, the reduced, now miniscule, waiting area (try it for a 45 minute connection or with 50 other people during disruption in bad weather) or what happened to quicker journeys towards Birmingham (resignalling for 90 mph was promised 15-20 years ago).

To my non-expert eye, mid-platform crossovers on platform 4 would make quick connections easier during disruption at times when 5 and 6 are full.

 

[birchesgreen]

Travelled from Ludlow to Birmingham International last Saturday Morning.
Had a 9 minute connection at Shrewsbury, arrive 7.21 depart 7.30.
Was 4 minutes late and was routed into platform 3. This platform requires a flight of stairs down, a ticket barrier and a flight of stairs up to the Birmingham Train.
Arrived just in time to see it leaving dead on time ! Not held for even 2 minutes !

Yes similar happened to me once, if your inbound service is delayed even by a minute or two then you are in trouble. They really need to move the ticket barrier so you can transfer without passing through it.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Yes similar happened to me once, if your inbound service is delayed even by a minute or two then you are in trouble. They really need to move the ticket barrier so you can transfer without passing through it.

Ideally yes, but where could it be moved to ? There’s not really anywhere else.

Arrived just in time to see it leaving dead on time ! Not held for even 2 minutes !

In my experience that is pretty unusual.
Did you speak to anyone I.e train manager on the inbound service or any of the staff around the barriers to say you wanted to get that service ?

 

[nwales58]

As a passenger, TfW staff have been pretty good at making the tight Cambrian-Chester connection work.

But my impression is that there are a lot of new-ish Shrewsbury-based guards who don't have much idea of how the network works (for instance not knowing that on a heavily delayed Aberystwyth they need to count the coast passengers so that Machynlleth can have the right sized road transport ready) and just rely on what their machine tells them (you'll be 2 hours late). So some may not understand that on a slightly-delayed eastbound Shrewsbury need to be told that there are some platform 4/5 to 3 passengers.

 

[satisnek]

Yes, I can remember using Platform 3 at Shrewsbury when changing trains there. It was a little too tight for comfort!

So how was the station laid out before BR rationalised it? Presumably there was a ticket barrier leading to a subway which gave access to all platforms?

 

[robspaceman]

Yes I think there were stairs coming down from platform 3 to where the ticket office now is, so you wouldn’t actually need to exit the station in order to access the subway. There were no ticket barriers until very recently. I also think there used to be another footbridge connecting the platforms.
Wikipedia (I think or maybe I read it somewhere else) states that the Dana pedestrian footpath above the station used to have stairs down to the platforms to enable it to be used by passengers, but I’m not convinced about that - I think it was a separate bridge.

 

[WAB]

The connection is reliant on TfW control spotting the delays (which can be difficult given the archaic signalling in the area makes it a black hole as far as Control is concerned, as well as the general workload) and asking station staff to hold, or station staff/traincrew asking Control for a hold. This generally works well in my experience up there, but trains do slip through the cracks.

 

[satisnek]

Yes I think there were stairs coming down from platform 3 to where the ticket office now is, so you wouldn’t actually need to exit the station in order to access the subway. There were no ticket barriers until very recently. I also think there used to be another footbridge connecting the platforms.
Wikipedia (I think or maybe I read it somewhere else) states that the Dana pedestrian footpath above the station used to have stairs down to the platforms to enable it to be used by passengers, but I’m not convinced about that - I think it was a separate bridge.

I thought that might be the case. Presumably there was originally some kind of booking hall to the left of the entrance. The present ticket office and external access to Platform 3 is one modification that's going to be expensive to correct!

 

[robspaceman]

This excellent aerial shot from 1932 clearly shows there indeed was a separate footbridge connecting all of the platforms at the very south end of the station, just beyond the impressive overall roof. The roof was removed in the early 60s I think - perhaps the footbridge disappeared around that time as well.

EPW040078 - Aerial Photo | Historic England

Explore the aerial photo collection

historicengland.org.uk

 

[chris_in_salop]

Ideally yes, but where could it be moved to ? There’s not really anywhere else.

Best solution would be to get rid of the ticket barrier. It's a horrible bottleneck.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Best solution would be to get rid of the ticket barrier. It's a horrible bottleneck.

I would think it prevents a serious amount of fare evasion to be honest.

I’ve seen the massive queues of people waiting to buy tickets on their way out. So I can’t see being get rid as an option.

 

[zero]

Got caught out by this in 2018 or thereabouts, it was an unofficial self-connection, but if I had known the platform was effectively outside the rest of the station, I would have known there was no chance of making it at all. The station staff should probably open the incoming barriers when a train arrives at p3.

 

[40129]

AIUI the footbridge at the south end of the station was removed around the time that platforms 1-3 were taken out of scheduled passenger use during the Beeching era. During this period the ticket office was moved from the station entrance to the top of the staircase to platforms 4-7. There were two manned ticket barriers adjacent to the new ticket office, one leading to platforms 4 and 5 and the other to 7 and 6. IIRC, the original ticket office became the travel center / enquiry office. By the time I started using the railways (mid 1970s) the ticket barrier leading to platform 7 had been closed and access to all in use platforms was via platform 4.

Platform 3 was gradually reinstated for passenger trains from around 1980 with typically two Saturday departures to Chester using it. Access was within the main building via a passageway adjacent to the travel center. Intending passengers for the aforementioned trains therefore had to go to the upstairs ticket office and then retrace their steps almost as far as the exit to access platform 3. Note that there were no passenger elevators at the time

Then in a stroke of 'genius' in the mid 1980s when BR refurbished the station, they moved the ticket office to its present location downstairs but in doing so blocked the passageway to platform 3 despite it being well known that they were intending to bring it back into regular use. At the same time, they removed both ticket barriers and made Shrewsbury an "open station". IIRC the present automatic ticket barriers were installed in the late 1990s when it was finally realized that the lack of barriers was costing the railway a lot of revenue.

 

[Cambrian359]

AIUI the footbridge at the south end of the station was removed around the time that platforms 1-3 were taken out of scheduled passenger use during the Beeching era. During this period the ticket office was moved from the station entrance to the top of the staircase to platforms 4-7. There were two manned ticket barriers adjacent to the new ticket office, one leading to platforms 4 and 5 and the other to 7 and 6. IIRC, the original ticket office became the travel center / enquiry office. By the time I started using the railways (mid 1970s) the ticket barrier leading to platform 7 had been closed and access to all in use platforms was via platform 4.

Platform 3 was gradually reinstated for passenger trains from around 1980 with typically two Saturday departures to Chester using it. Access was within the main building via a passageway adjacent to the travel center. Intending passengers for the aforementioned trains therefore had to go to the upstairs ticket office and then retrace their steps almost as far as the exit to access platform 3. Note that there were no passenger elevators at the time

Then in a stroke of 'genius' in the mid 1980s when BR refurbished the station, they moved the ticket office to its present location downstairs but in doing so blocked the passageway to platform 3 despite it being well known that they were intending to bring it back into regular use. At the same time, they removed both ticket barriers and made Shrewsbury an "open station". IIRC the present automatic ticket barriers were installed in the late 1990s when it was finally realized that the lack of barriers was costing the railway a lot of revenue.

Thank you,very interesting. I spent sometime trying to google last night to see if there was any other old subways or halls that may have connected the platforms.

 

[Lewisham2221]

In my experience, the gate line staff at Shrewsbury are very good at opening the gates if there is a last minute platform alteration, or a tight connection involving a late running arrival, involving P3. Same goes for the platform staff holding trains for a couple of minutes to allow connections, especially the roughly xx30 ones for North Wales/Birmingham/Cambrian - obviously limited to how long they can hold for though due to impact elsewhere.

 

[DarloRich]

what are we complaining about here? minimum transfer times at Shrewsbury or missing trains because they weren't held?

 

[Lurcheroo]

what are we complaining about here? minimum transfer times at Shrewsbury or missing trains because they weren't held?

(Fairly, for once) a bit of both I think.

 

[DarloRich]

(Fairly, for once) a bit of both I think.

thanks - the issue with holding connections has been done to death, we both benefit from and fall foul of that rule each day.

On transfer times it must simply be a case of "passenger beware" - if you are right on the available time connection wise you leave yourself open to the situation described if your incoming train is delayed in any way.

Punctuality on the railway is so poor I wonder if it is worth the risk

 

[Lewisham2221]

It's not an ideal situation. Interchange between P4/5/6/7 can essentially be done in seconds (obviously less mobile people will require longer), so for the most part, the 5 minutes interchange time is absolutely fine and increasing it would be an inconvenience. On the other hand, interchange to/from P3 can be lengthy and awkward - especially if it's busy.

 

[craigybagel]

Using platform 3 for most of the Chester-bound services appears to be Network Rail's intention.

I can't find the article now, there was a report of an 'impress the MP/MS' session where NR mentioned work to increase axle loading on the bridge to allow loco-hauled services into platform 3 to increase capacity now that West Midlands need two platforms for part of every hour.

There's only 1 loco hauled service a day that could use Platform 3 if they were permitted - the evening Cardiff - Holyhead service.

Unfortunately our elected representatives are not reported to have asked about passenger convenience, interchange times, the reduced, now miniscule, waiting area (try it for a 45 minute connection or with 50 other people during disruption in bad weather) or what happened to quicker journeys towards Birmingham (resignalling for 90 mph was promised 15-20 years ago).

The signalling was delivered. There are other reasons why the line speed is still only 70 on that, but without a complete recast of the timetable in the West Midlands there's no point doing it.

Best solution would be to get rid of the ticket barrier. It's a horrible bottleneck.

I would think it prevents a serious amount of fare evasion to be honest.

I’ve seen the massive queues of people waiting to buy tickets on their way out. So I can’t see being get rid as an option.

Exactly. The staff there are very proactive in keeping things moving, and unfortunately it's a necessary evil to prevent fare dodging.

 

[nwales58]

Shrewsbury makes a strong case for rail investment

Local leaders and rail representatives met in Shrewsbury on Tuesday to discuss the need for increased capacity and infrastructure improvements at Shrewsbury railway station.

www.shropshirelive.com

Network Rail presented plans to expand Platform 3, which would allow for heavier trains and direct routes to Crewe, freeing up capacity on Platform 4 for more frequent and larger services.

but is this real and funded or a sop to persuade the attendees something might improve?

 

[Krokodil]

I would think it prevents a serious amount of fare evasion to be honest.

I’ve seen the massive queues of people waiting to buy tickets on their way out. So I can’t see being get rid as an option.

Presumably at some point in the past all seven platforms were inside the ticket barriers - so changing trains wasn't a problem and Platform 3 was rather less leaky. What would be required to return to that state of affairs? Presumably moving the ticket office and barriers back to wherever they used to be, installing a remote barrier at the top of the P3 ramp and reopening the disused stairs (passengers who cannot use the stairs would still need to use the ramp, the guard would need to phone ahead for them to be assisted this way, and for any holds necessary).

In the meantime the other thing which needs to happen is improved punctuality on the Marches. I believe that the performance team at TfW do have the route in their crosshairs.

 

[robspaceman]

Presumably at some point in the past all seven platforms were inside the ticket barriers - so changing trains wasn't a problem and Platform 3 was rather less leaky. What would be required to return to that state of affairs? Presumably moving the ticket office and barriers back to wherever they used to be, installing a remote barrier at the top of the P3 ramp and reopening the disused stairs (passengers who cannot use the stairs would still need to use the ramp, the guard would need to phone ahead for them to be assisted this way, and for any holds necessary).

In the meantime the other thing which needs to happen is improved punctuality on the Marches. I believe that the performance team at TfW do have the route in their crosshairs.

If you wanted all the platforms inside the barriers you’d have to install them at the front door of the station which would be impossible. And then on top of that remove the current ticket office in order to access the stairs upto platform 3.
Alternatively, reinstall a footbridge to connect all the platforms.
Adding stairs from the platforms to the Dana footbridge, which is a public right of way, would require barriers to prevent people accessing the platforms for free.

So it’s not a simple solution at all, alas.