Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[nctd2306]

For those wondering about the short forms, as well as the Desiros being very overworked currently, the 455 situation seems very dire. There are at least 10 units that seem not to have been in service for over 2 weeks now. I know 5703 is at Bournemouth but no idea what's happened to the rest of them (awaiting the wheel lathe possibly following leaf fall season?)

Of course to bring it back to the 701 topic, the situation would be helped if more than just 4/90 trains were actually fit for service...

 

[Bikeman78]

Lots of short forms out today too. Saw a few 455s and 458/5s running by themselves

Yet people think the arrival of a few more class 701s will allow class 455s to go in the bin. I would argue that at least four are needed to have a reasonable chance of everything running with the booked formation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2024 ==

For those wondering about the short forms, as well as the Desiros being very overworked currently, the 455 situation seems very dire. There are at least 10 units that seem not to have been in service for over 2 weeks now. I know 5703 is at Bournemouth but no idea what's happened to the rest of them (awaiting the wheel lathe possibly following leaf fall season?)

Of course to bring it back to the 701 topic, the situation would be helped if more than just 4/90 trains were actually fit for service...

How many class 455s are still in use? 10 stopped out of a fleet of approx 80 units is not dire. 70 out of 80 is 87.5% availabillty.

 

[gmaguire]

Lots of short forms out today too. Saw a few 455s and 458/5s running by themselves

0652 Waterloo to Weybridge was a single 450 this morning. Left Clapham Junction full.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

FirstGroup and MTR have (officially now) failed to achieve their franchise promise of getting 90 new trains into service as it's been announced SWR will be the first to be nationalised in May.

South Western Railway set to be first train operator nationalised by Labour

Next companies to return to public control will be c2c and Greater Anglia under UK government plans

www.ft.com

 

[Goldfish62]

FirstGroup and MTR have (officially now) failed to achieve their franchise promise of getting 90 new trains into service as it's been announced SWR will be the first to be nationalised in May.

South Western Railway set to be first train operator nationalised by Labour

Next companies to return to public control will be c2c and Greater Anglia under UK government plans

www.ft.com

Despite Steve Montgomery stating a few months ago that they hoped to have them all in service before handing over the keys in May.

 

[swr444]

0652 Waterloo to Weybridge was a single 450 this morning. Left Clapham Junction full.

I believe this is booked a 4 car currently.

 

[SWT_USER]

Might as well book everything as 4 or 5 car then. That way SWR can truthfully say they are not short forming.

 

[DMckduck]

For those wondering about the short forms, as well as the Desiros being very overworked currently, the 455 situation seems very dire. There are at least 10 units that seem not to have been in service for over 2 weeks now. I know 5703 is at Bournemouth but no idea what's happened to the rest of them (awaiting the wheel lathe possibly following leaf fall season?)

Of course to bring it back to the 701 topic, the situation would be helped if more than just 4/90 trains were actually fit for service..

You would also have thought they could have named one of the regulars instead of a unit only seen in service once.

 

[wickham]

Visible at Eastleigh Airport Sidings today (03/12) were 701030, 047, 049, 050 and 47739 (apparently in place to take one away tonorrow 04/12): Around the back of the DEMU depot was 701045 lights on but nowhere to go !

 

[mansonlo49]

701502

thank you

 

[60159]

Visible at Eastleigh Airport Sidings today (03/12) were 701030, 047, 049, 050 and 47739 (apparently in place to take one away tonorrow 04/12): Around the back of the DEMU depot was 701045 lights on but nowhere to go !

Do you get them from the road?

 

[nctd2306]

You would also have thought they could have named one of the regulars instead of a unit only seen in service once.

Indeed I was hoping that naming 031 might lead to it seeing more passenger use, evidently not

 

[D365]

Indeed I was hoping that naming 031 might lead to it seeing more passenger use, evidently not

That’s definitely not how the passenger allocations work.

 

[Invincible]

Simplified - now only citing the number of days in service, as several units have worked split or partial diagrams

Totals, first and most recent outings

701043 (91) January 16th, December 2nd
701037 (90) January 9th, December 2nd
701039 (83) January 10th, December 2nd
701036 (67) March 7th, December 2nd
701028 (3) February 6th, February 9th
701017 (3) November 25th, November 27th
701031 (1) October 28th

(total 338)

So hopefully of the 7 units ready for carrying passengers, 017, 028 and 031 will see more use soon, before other units are introduced (next batch of 10?) later this month or 2025?.

I see May is the date SWR will move to public ownership, which should not delay the introduction of more 701s. I also presume the livery and SWR name will be the same on the trains for a good while, till GBR gets setup?.

 

[Snow1964]

So hopefully of the 7 units ready for carrying passengers, 017, 028 and 031 will see more use soon, before other units are introduced (next batch of 10?) later this month or 2025?.

I see May is the date SWR will move to public ownership, which should not delay the introduction of more 701s.

Are there more services booked for 701s from the mid December timetable change.

If over 100 drivers have been trained (and probably nearer 110-120 by timetable change date) then that is something like 15%, which means ought to be able to allocate staff for at least 7 or 8 daily diagrams, more if they are careful rostering and not including Sundays yet.

 

[TEW]

The December diagrams include some weekend work in the LTP diagrams so we may see the first proper weekend diagrams, but the next weekday diagram is looking more like a January introduction.
Sunday's are inside the working week on SWR so it doesn't really make any difference not having Sunday diagrams, you'd just expect there to be proportionally less diagrams with the reduced service on Sunday's.

 

[DMckduck]

Are there more services booked for 701s from the mid December timetable change.

If over 100 drivers have been trained (and probably nearer 110-120 by timetable change date) then that is something like 15%, which means ought to be able to allocate staff for at least 7 or 8 daily diagrams, more if they are careful rostering and not including Sundays yet.

Is that percentage of total drivers or drivers who need training?

If it's the latter then that percentage can be pushed up considering 7 depots currently won't need to be trained on 701s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

So hopefully of the 7 units ready for carrying passengers, 017, 028 and 031 will see more use soon, before other units are introduced (next batch of 10?) later this month or 2025?.

I see May is the date SWR will move to public ownership, which should not delay the introduction of more 701s. I also presume the livery and SWR name will be the same on the trains for a good while, till GBR gets setup?.

I reckon even under GBR, liveries may stay the same? To help passengers differentiate between regions?

Could be wrong though.

 

[DelW]

I see May is the date SWR will move to public ownership, which should not delay the introduction of more 701s. I also presume the livery and SWR name will be the same on the trains for a good while, till GBR gets setup?.

IIRC the SWR livery was mandated by DfT anyway as a standardised base, in response to public complaints about the cost of repainting trains when franchisees changed. I would imagine the bit about "A First Group company" will be removed fairly quickly though, even if the logo stays.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I reckon even under GBR, liveries may stay the same? To help passengers differentiate between regions?

Why would they need to? Passengers want to know where the train is going, not which division of GBR is operating it. If you're at Epsom and want to go to Dorking, it shouldn't matter whether the train is SWR or Southern - and simply knowing who is operating the train won't be enough information.

People managed perfectly well when everything was blue and grey.

And relying on liveries can be a false friend anyway, which is why when Southern uses Gat Ex stock on other services they have to make announcements.

 

[DMckduck]

Why would they need to? Passengers want to know where the train is going, not which division of GBR is operating it. If you're at Epsom and want to go to Dorking, it shouldn't matter whether the train is SWR or Southern - and simply knowing who is operating the train won't be enough information.

People managed perfectly well when everything was blue and grey.

And relying on liveries can be a false friend anyway, which is why when Southern uses Gat Ex stock on other services they have to make announcements.

I simply think the DFT will look at it on a cost basis and keep it as it is, only changing when new rolling stock orders go out as required.

 

[norbitonflyer]

So hopefully of the 7 units ready for carrying passengers, 017, 028 and 031 will see more use soon, before other units are introduced (next batch of 10?) later this month or 2025?.

031 has only been in passenger service once, (in October), and 028 hasn't been seen since February. But 017 did briefly come out to play today.

 

[adc82140]

Why would they need to? Passengers want to know where the train is going, not which division of GBR is operating it. If you're at Epsom and want to go to Dorking, it shouldn't matter whether the train is SWR or Southern - and simply knowing who is operating the train won't be enough information.

In the NSE days, there was still differentiation. Your class 455 would either have had a South Western Lines or South London Lines logo on, depending on the division.

 

[JonathanH]

Your class 455 would either have had a South Western Lines or South London Lines logo on, depending on the division.

Yes, but there was no actual differentiation in fares, delivery or passenger use depending on the division.

 

[Goldfish62]

I see May is the date SWR will move to public ownership, which should not delay the introduction of more 701s. I also presume the livery and SWR name will be the same on the trains for a good while, till GBR gets setup?.

May was always the date as soon as Labour won the GE because that's when the contract expires and can't be extended, so won't come as any surprise to SWR management. No doubt why SWR still has an acting MD rather than a permanent post holder.

All eyes will be on SWR from May so the government will be keen to ensure that it looks like public ownership has brought improvements. That'll include getting the 701s into service ASAP. The last thing they'll want is another Northern.

 

[Bessie]

All eyes will be on SWR from May so the government will be keen to ensure that it looks like public ownership has brought improvements. That'll include getting the 701s into service ASAP. The last thing they'll want is another Northern.

As a long suffering Waterloo-Reading line user we can but hope that Labour will throw some resource at SWR for it to become a poster child for nationalisation. For a start when 701's are in full service it will be good to have 4 tph on the peak services - the demand is there on this route.

 

[Invincible]

031 has only been in passenger service once, (in October), and 028 hasn't been seen since February. But 017 did briefly come out to play today.

Thanks,

 

[Siemens Staines]

031 has only been in passenger service once, (in October), and 028 hasn't been seen since February. But 017 did briefly come out to play today.

I do not know if it applies to the 701 roll out, but I recall that when the 345s were being introduced on the GWML, that software updates meant that units that had been in passenger use were subsequently not permitted on passenger services because their software was no longer the approved version.

 

[mansonlo49]

Visible at Eastleigh Airport Sidings today (03/12) were 701030, 047, 049, 050 and 47739 (apparently in place to take one away tonorrow 04/12): Around the back of the DEMU depot was 701045 lights on but nowhere to go !

which is going to long marston thx?

 

[3973EXL]

which is going to long marston thx?

701504/503 5Q87

 

[DMckduck]

As a long suffering Waterloo-Reading line user we can but hope that Labour will throw some resource at SWR for it to become a poster child for nationalisation. For a start when 701's are in full service it will be good to have 4 tph on the peak services - the demand is there on this route.

It seems SWR are stretched currently running the service they are now with the current staffing levels.

4tph would require pulling staff off other diagrams, which would need that work covering. A big recruitment drive paired with full 701 introduction is needed.

The near 2 year recruitment freeze post covid hasn't really helped.