WCRC loses judicial review in High Court

[Wyrleybart]

There’s one charter TOC that would have the funds necessary to facilitate that…

I may be wrong but I believe one of the leading charter operators actually has the original Kyle of Lochalsh line Met Camm car in store at Crewe.

The points are Vac brake. no CET, no CDL, no disability access etc etc.

Additionally, there are several preserved observation cars around the country. but non are mainline registered AFAIK eve nthe elegant "Beavertail" car which needed a large wedge of cash to restore it.

 

[Spaceship323]

The Royal Scotsman has an observation car, with an open rear deck...how is that allowed these days? (observed on the Kyle line last month)

 

[AdamWW]

The Royal Scotsman has an observation car, with an open rear deck...how is that allowed these days? (observed on the Kyle line last month)

I think the railings round it have gradually got higher.

 

[12C]

I think the railings round it have gradually got higher.

There has been a small glass screen added above the railing at the sides in recent years, up to about shoulder height. It’s still open around from waist height at the end.

I'm surprised it’s still allowed in this day and age given how strict other railtours are around even loitering in a vestibule.

(Attached photo showing open veranda of Royal Scotsman observation car).

 

[co-tr-paul]

Personally, love open air veranda stock. It's common on many special trains worldwide and I wish more heritage lines would cater for this, although I get a brake van has limited capacity !
Just think it's a missed opportunity here but H&S is totally OTT regarding this.
Just look at operators like Alaska Railroad which has double deck open veranda stock !
If they can all do it " safely " , why can't we ?
Edit, Scotland's Poshish Train , new TV series starts Sunday????

 

[BRX]

Loads of open carriages in Japan too.

My impression is that it's partly that now the UK has no droplights, they've decided there's no more need to bother too much about keeping vegetation cut back alongside the line.

 

[AdamWW]

Just look at operators like Alaska Railroad which has double deck open veranda stock !
If they can all do it " safely " , why can't we ?

More clearance?

My recollection of travelling on the Alaska Railroad is that there was something of a lack of lineside vegetation or indeed other structures. There was one tunnel though.

 

[12C]

Personally, love open air veranda stock. It's common on many special trains worldwide and I wish more heritage lines would cater for this, although I get a brake van has limited capacity !
Just think it's a missed opportunity here but H&S is totally OTT regarding this.
Just look at operators like Alaska Railroad which has double deck open veranda stock !
If they can all do it " safely " , why can't we ?
Edit, Scotland's Poshish Train , new TV series starts Sunday????

I completely agree, but it is at a sharp contrast to all other railtour operators who are very strict about nobody being near a droplight on the move.

You also don’t have to look very far on YouTube to see plenty of influencers and travel vloggers sticking GoPros and selfie sticks out of the Royal Scotsman’s veranda, seemingly without any repercussions. On any other railtour these days, you’d likely be kicked off the train.

Are the ORR more lenient to operators carrying rich American tourists than rail enthusiasts perhaps?

 

[Killingworth]

Personally, love open air veranda stock. It's common on many special trains worldwide and I wish more heritage lines would cater for this, although I get a brake van has limited capacity !
Just think it's a missed opportunity here but H&S is totally OTT regarding this.
Just look at operators like Alaska Railroad which has double deck open veranda stock !
If they can all do it " safely " , why can't we ?
Edit, Scotland's Poshish Train , new TV series starts Sunday????

Royal Scotsman, open verandah, Flying Scotsman, oops!

 

[Wyrleybart]

More clearance?

My recollection of travelling on the Alaska Railroad is that there was something of a lack of lineside vegetation or indeed other structures. There was one tunnel though.

I agree
UK has some of the tightest infrastructure around trains, even to the extent that class 153s were banned east of St Denys due to bogie steps being "out of gauge". Who remembers the unfortunate incident where a rail enthusiast had his head out of the only droplight on a class 442 in the Clapham area.

 

[AdamWW]

I agree
UK has some of the tightest infrastructure around trains, even to the extent that class 153s were banned east of St Denys due to bogie steps being "out of gauge". Who remembers the unfortunate incident where a rail enthusiast had his head out of the only droplight on a class 442 in the Clapham area.

Funnily enough I was on a double 153 today where the door to the non driving side of one of the intermediate cabs wasn't shut and I could have stuck my head out of a window.

I didn't.

Personally, love open air veranda stock. It's common on many special trains worldwide and I wish more heritage lines would cater for this, although I get a brake van has limited capacity

There's the Brecon Mountain Railway - verandas on every coach. Sadly with (post-Covid?) assigned seating and at least if you book online no way to choose to sit in an end coach.

 

[Titfield]

I agree
UK has some of the tightest infrastructure around trains, even to the extent that class 153s were banned east of St Denys due to bogie steps being "out of gauge". Who remembers the unfortunate incident where a rail enthusiast had his head out of the only droplight on a class 442 in the Clapham area.

A very tragic accident where the TOC was held to account and fined accordingly.

 

[ejstubbs]

Passengers on 'Harry Potter' Jacobite steam train 'dreaded' return journey​

By Alastair Dalton
Transport Correspondent

Published 24th Nov 2024, 06:00 GMT

Photos of West Highland scenery ruined by “filthy” windows

Some passengers were so upset with travelling on the so-called “Harry Potter” Jacobite steam train to Mallaig this year they “dreaded” the return journey, according to a long-time volunteer at the station.

Sonia Cameron, who has been a ScotRail “station adopter” at Mallaig for 15 years to help with its maintenance, called on operator West Coast Railways (WCR) to improve its poor customer service.

She has been backed by Lochaber Chamber of Commerce, which urged WCR to “engage meaningfully with local communities and stakeholders to find solutions”.

The criticisms come as analysis by The Scotsman showed nearly one third of the 95 reviews of The Jacobite on the Tripadvisor website this year gave it just one star, and more than half only one or two stars.

Ms Cameron, writing in the West Word community newspaper, said WCR passengers were “berating and complaining day after day of their disappointment in their Jacobite experience and dreading the journey back”, buying window cleaner and wipes to clean their carriage windows.

“Gone are the days when the end of the season was marked by celebrating on the platform to thank WCR for coming to Mallaig each year,” she said. “Now there seems to be little interaction between the Jacobite crew and guests, except for Tannoy announcements.”

Ms Cameron called on the company to meet Mallaig businesses to “rebuild trust”.

Frazer Coupland, chief executive of Lochaber Chamber of Commerce, acknowledged the economic benefits brought by the train, but said there had also been negative impacts, such as the central door locking issue. That also led to services being halved to one a day for part of the summer.

Mr Coupland said: “It is crucial that WCR engages meaningfully with local communities to find solutions that balance the needs of visitors, residents, and businesses. We urge WCR to prioritise open dialogue, transparency, and a commitment to long-term investment in the region.”

However, some passengers praised the Jacobite with five-star reviews - a quarter of this year’s total on Tripadvisor.
Edolster said “the train, staff and experience were excellent”, while Steph L from Swindon wrote: “The train was stunning and the service was impeccable, with lots of information given.”

A WCR spokesperson said: “We were deeply disappointed to see the comments, given the substantial economic contribution The Jacobite makes to the Highland communities where we operate.

“The Jacobite service is a lynchpin of Scottish tourism, bringing an estimated £35 million into the sector. It is central to drawing customers for local businesses, hotels and caterers in the West Highlands. We have published details of our 2025 season and will consider further opportunities for engagement.”

 

[D6130]

Passengers on 'Harry Potter' Jacobite steam train 'dreaded' return journey​

In my experience, dirty windows have been an issue with the Jacobite stock for many years. The problem is that there is no carriage washing plant at Tom-na-Faire depot and no high level cleaning platforms. Therefore the only chance they have to clean the windows by hand between the beginning and end of the season is when the stock is in the platforms at Fort William or Mallaig....and - as theh train nearly always uses the same platform at both termini, only the windows on one side are going to be cleaned, subject to time and staff being available. Those carriages accumulate a fair bit of soot during the long operating season.

 

[43096]

In my experience, dirty windows have been an issue with the Jacobite stock for many years. The problem is that there is no carriage washing plant at Tom-na-Faire depot and no high level cleaning platforms. Therefore the only chance they have to clean the windows by hand between the beginning and end of the season is when the stock is in the platforms at Fort William or Mallaig....and - as theh train nearly always uses the same platform at both termini, only the windows on one side are going to be cleaned, subject to time and staff being available. Those carriages accumulate a fair bit of soot during the long operating season.

Which isn’t good enough when the primary selling point the operator uses is the view out of the window.

 

[Struner]

In my experience, dirty windows have been an issue with the Jacobite stock for many years. […]

I seem to remember vlogger Steve Marsh wiped the outside of his window on the FNL with the sleeve of his jacket.

 

[StephenHunter]

Those carriages accumulate a fair bit of soot during the long operating season.

Considering the contents of my snot after a day at my heritage railway, I'm not surprised!

 

[12LDA28C]

I seem to remember vlogger Steve Marsh wiped the outside of his window on the FNL with the sleeve of his jacket.

FNL? Far North Line? What does that have to do with the Jacobite, or WCRC?

 

[Egg Centric]

Passengers on 'Harry Potter' Jacobite steam train 'dreaded' return journey​

Even if they lack the words to express it, viewing the tripadvisor reviews mentioned in the article (direct link) it's clear that unlike what the consensus of this thread seemed to be before the season the lack of the Mk1s in fact is making a big difference to the normies. Most of the negative reviews say things like "The coaches were just old not vintage like Harry’s" (direct quote from one).

 

[Iskra]

I think the bad reviews is probably a similar situation to the Caledonian Sleeper (it’s probably the same customers ). The higher the price- the higher people’s expectations become, and that’s where little details become an issue that people would probably have overlooked if the prices were a bit more reasonable.

WCRC’s stock in general does seem to be even rougher around the edges than it used to be, no doubt this issue has been accentuated by the prohibition on non-CDL fitted stock.

I have noticed that the NYMR also struggles to keep windows clean, on my numerous visits this year. So it must be harder than we imagine.

 

[12C]

In my experience, dirty windows have been an issue with the Jacobite stock for many years. The problem is that there is no carriage washing plant at Tom-na-Faire depot and no high level cleaning platforms. Therefore the only chance they have to clean the windows by hand between the beginning and end of the season is when the stock is in the platforms at Fort William or Mallaig....and - as theh train nearly always uses the same platform at both termini, only the windows on one side are going to be cleaned, subject to time and staff being available. Those carriages accumulate a fair bit of soot during the long operating season.

Surely it wouldn’t be that difficult to give the windows a quick wash with a long brush and bucket of soapy water on depot once or twice a week?

 

[Struner]

FNL? Far North Line? What does that have to do with the Jacobite, or WCRC?

Just to show that WCRC isn’t the only one? - Just sprang to mind - didn’t investigate any further

 

[AdamWW]

Surely it wouldn’t be that difficult to give the windows a quick wash with a long brush and bucket of soapy water on depot once or twice a week?

Yes I'm a bit confused.

We've had the technology to clean first floor windows in houses for some time now...and these days it doesn't even require a ladder.

 

[John Bishop]

Yes I'm a bit confused.

We've had the technology to clean first floor windows in houses for some time now...and these days it doesn't even require a ladder.

It’s the railway mate, we’re still decades behind everyone else.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Keeping Mk1 and Mk2 coaches clean is surprisingly difficult. The accumulated brake dust and, in this case, soot, on the windows and body will not just come off with a bit of window solution as used by your domestic window cleaner at home. In addition some pressure is required to actually scrub the windows, something not easy to do from ground level using one of the flimsy poles that my window cleaner uses at home.

A strong industrial detergent, which may contain acid or some other harmful chemical, is required. As is some element of pressure and / or scrubbing, if not done daily.

Standing on the ground, splashing such chemicals around above you, and then trying to use a flimsy pole to apply pressure is not going work.

Plus of course if using such washing chemicals then in theory you should be doing it in an area with suitable drainage to avoid said chemicals getting somewhere they shouldn't.

 

[Harpo]

The days of manually scrubbing (‘handbashing’) with Exmover are probably gone. As are not being particularly fussed about where it goes afterwards.

 

[co-tr-paul]

It's not hard.....
Bucket, long brush and ppe.
The stock for the Night Riviera is ( supposed) to be done as part of period heavy clean every 28 days.

The days of manually scrubbing (‘handbashing’) with Exmover are probably gone. As are not being particularly fussed about where it goes afterwards.

 

[BlueLeanie]

There are the perfect solutions and imperfect solutions.

My Karcher deck spinny thing does an amazing job of cleaning my patio with simple brush agitation and water. Surely something like that on the glass would be better than nothing?

 

[BRX]

How do preserved railways keep their windows clean?

 

[Towers]

How do preserved railways keep their windows clean?

Trundling around at no more than 25 mph probably plays its part!