ScotRail HST replacement tender issued - ideas thread

[380101]

ScotRail have, today, issued the tender for the HST fleet replacement.

The tender specifies the replacement is to be of an existing diesel fleet that can be introduced no later than Dec 2027, but preferably Dec 2026.

The tender is for enough units to provide 19 diagrams a day, which suggests the 222s are the preferred units given the size of the 222 fleet.

ScotRail is seeking proposals for the supply of rolling stock to operate a minimum of 19 service diagrams per day on its intercity routes
connecting Glasgow, Edinburgh, Perth, Stirling, Dundee, Inverness and Aberdeen.
This competition is a combined process to select providers of:
(a) the InterCity Replacement Fleet under a rolling stock lease, including any refurbishment and enhancement work; and a
(b) technical support and spares supply agreement, with additional maintenance and support during introduction and may include some
heavy maintenance services.
These contracts may be awarded to two different contracting entities. However, in responding to this Contract Notice you are required to
respond jointly in a manner that satisfies all contractual requirements.
For example, this may take the form of a joint venture or consortium, with one member providing the InterCity Replacement Fleet, and the
other providing the technical support, spares and maintenance elements.
In the event that contracts are subsequently awarded with two different contracting entities, ScotRail may decide to include an interworking
agreement between all the contracting entities.

 

[AMD]

The contract notice has been published for the replacement fleet -

"Description of the procurement Following the Cabinet Secretary for Transport’s announcement on 3 September 2024 that a replacement is to be sought for the High Speed Train (HST) fleet which operates intercity routes between Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness, ScotRail (SRT) is seeking expressions of interest, and from those who prequalify, tenders for:
1. the supply of a single fleet/class of existing rolling stock to operate its intercity services; and
2. the provision of technical support and spares supply arrangement to enable SRT to maintain the fleet.
The InterCity Replacement Fleet (The Fleet) must demonstrate improved reliability and availability, reduced emissions and operating costs compared to the current HSTs. The Fleet must be capable of operating on existing Network Rail infrastructure on SRT’s intercity corridors with min. changes to achieve a statement of compatibility and safety validation.
The Fleet shall be of sufficient size to operate min. 19 daily passenger diagrams plus sufficient spare trains for maintenance. The average passenger diagram operates approx 220,000 miles p/a. The supplier of the trains will be required to refurbish The Fleet (as needed) before it enters passenger service to provide SRT customers with a reliable and comfortable journey, attractive environment and suitable facilities.
The Fleet will be required to operate in reliable passenger service until at least 2035 and may be required (in whole or in part) until 2040 without further refurbishments. The full Fleet and maintenance support services should enable 19 passenger diagrams to operate from Dec 2027 (backstop date), and SRT reserves the right to exclude fleets which are not expected to be introduced by this date. SRT prefers The Fleet is in reliable passenger service sooner, with the aim from Dec 2026."

Basically looking for a fleet of trains in existence as opposed to something new due to the lead time involved - maximum in service 3 years from now and also talking about being in service only for approximately a decade.

 

[Vectron383]

I guess this confirms the ‘stopgap’ fleet theory that many have discussed on here. Hopefully we can actually afford some new trains before whatever comes next flames out.

 

[Wolfie]

The contract notice has been published for the replacement fleet -

"Description of the procurement Following the Cabinet Secretary for Transport’s announcement on 3 September 2024 that a replacement is to be sought for the High Speed Train (HST) fleet which operates intercity routes between Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness, ScotRail (SRT) is seeking expressions of interest, and from those who prequalify, tenders for:
1. the supply of a single fleet/class of existing rolling stock to operate its intercity services; and
2. the provision of technical support and spares supply arrangement to enable SRT to maintain the fleet.
The InterCity Replacement Fleet (The Fleet) must demonstrate improved reliability and availability, reduced emissions and operating costs compared to the current HSTs. The Fleet must be capable of operating on existing Network Rail infrastructure on SRT’s intercity corridors with min. changes to achieve a statement of compatibility and safety validation.
The Fleet shall be of sufficient size to operate min. 19 daily passenger diagrams plus sufficient spare trains for maintenance. The average passenger diagram operates approx 220,000 miles p/a. The supplier of the trains will be required to refurbish The Fleet (as needed) before it enters passenger service to provide SRT customers with a reliable and comfortable journey, attractive environment and suitable facilities.
The Fleet will be required to operate in reliable passenger service until at least 2035 and may be required (in whole or in part) until 2040 without further refurbishments. The full Fleet and maintenance support services should enable 19 passenger diagrams to operate from Dec 2027 (backstop date), and SRT reserves the right to exclude fleets which are not expected to be introduced by this date. SRT prefers The Fleet is in reliable passenger service sooner, with the aim from Dec 2026."

Basically looking for a fleet of trains in existence as opposed to something new due to the leadtime involved - maximum in service 3 years from now and also talking about being in service only for approximately a decade.

Sounds like a 22x to me.....

 

[380101]

All points to it being 222s, given the requirement in the tender for a fleet to facilitate 19 daily diagrams.

 

[hexagon789]

Sounds like a 22x to me.....

All points to it being 222s, given the requirement in the tender for a fleet to facilitate 19 daily diagrams.

Aren't enough available though...

 

[waverley47]

ScotRail have, today, issued the tender for the HST fleet replacement.

The tender specifies the replacement is to be of an existing diesel fleet that can be introduced no later than Dec 2027, but preferably Dec 2026.

The tender is for enough units to provide 19 diagrams a day, which suggests the 222s are the preferred units given the size of the 222 fleet.

Well there we go. The HST saga will be coming to an end in the next years.

I think it's important we don't turn this threat into "Were HSTs the right choice?" but they've done their job and now they're life expired.

The tender doesn't mention any capacity or traction requirements, but does say that there is a desire to get the ball rolling as soon as possible, hopefully by December 2026. I would agree this heavily favours the 222s over anything else, but we shall see.

 

[380101]

Aren't enough available though...

There's 27 222 units. Even if "First Stirling" or whatever it will be called take 5 or 6 units to initially start their open access operation, there will still be enough to fulfil the requirements for ScotRail.

 

[hexagon789]

There's 27 222 units. Even if "First Stirling" or whatever it will be called take 5 or 6 units to initially start their open access operation, there will still be enough to fulfil the requirements for ScotRail.

First Stirling have already got an agreement for some 222s, so the amount left wouldn't be enough for 19 HST diagrams and maintenance.

 

[Meerkat]

First Stirling have already got an agreement for some 222s, so the amount left wouldn't be enough for 19 HST diagrams and maintenance.

Is that a definite signed agreement? Would have thought the lessor would have done their numbers and waited for the Scottish tender.

 

[Clansman]

So basically any fleet which can allow ScotRail to cover all HST diagrams, and that's without considering how it can supplement existing 170s/158s flexibility that ScotRail have.

Sounds like fair game on replacing HSTs at all costs rather than anything specific in the way of 22Xs, not that there are many (if any) alternative options. 22Xs couldn't be more unsuitable, and that they are the default option in such a scenario shows how dire the situation is at the minute.

 

[hexagon789]

Is that a definite signed agreement? Would have thought the lessor would have done their numbers and waited for the Scottish tender.

Was mentioned several weeks ago that the ROSCO had a firm agreement with them for a certain number of sets and a potential agreement for the balance from elsewhere.

 

[222001]

First Stirling have already got an agreement for some 222s, so the amount left wouldn't be enough for 19 HST diagrams and maintenance.

19 222 diagrams would require 22 sets based on how EMR operate. Leaves 5 for others. Not sure how many sets the Stirling service would require?

 

[380101]

First Stirling have already got an agreement for some 222s, so the amount left wouldn't be enough for 19 HST diagrams and maintenance.

Is it not the case that First only plan to use 222s to initiate the start of the service in 2025 and the overall aim is to introduce an 80X fleet to make use of the electrification as quickly as possible?

 

[hwl]

No surprises and it also confirms 2035 electrification has effectively been pushed back to 2040 in yet another document. This also prevents Soctrail /TS being held to ransom to procure new bi-mode stock or get sufficient electrification completed before HST were due to retire.

(May be some previous thread posts about HST early retirement have been unduly send to speculative discussion )

The only single fleet option that meets the criteria are 222s unless existing leases are cancelled early on other stock

 

[InTheEastMids]

The tender is for enough units to provide 19 diagrams a day, which suggests the 222s are the preferred units given the size of the 222 fleet.

There's 27 222s and EMR diagram I think around 23 of them.
Could 19 diagrams be covered by the 23 5-car units (with the 4x 7-car units going elsewhere e.g. open access?)

Their strengths and flaws are well-known to many.
Obviously some things like accessibility/floor height can't be changed, and it's clear the Stagecoach-era carpets (or what's left of them) will go.

So the things to watch for are that may be technically do-able, but depend on the budget are things like improvements to layouts, catering provision, luggage space, cycle provision and exhaust emissions.

 

[CEN60]

Reading the document link above - would I be correct in understanding that the intention is to have all the Inter7City Services covered by the "new" rolling stock (ie not a combination of 170 & whatever they end up with)?

 

[Indigo Soup]

Adapting my post from the other thread as I overlapped with this one being split.

Presumably there'll be a full requirements document issued early next year following the PQQ.

Eversholt with the 222s is the obvious bid that everyone's expecting. If they do go to ScotRail... that'll be two lots of ex-Hull Trains stock that's been sent to mock Scottish travellers with their closed miniature buffets. Though the performance of 22x-type trains has been desired since at least 2008.

I wouldn't be surprised if Angel Trains submit a bid to do something to the HSTs, unless the full requirements document makes it clear that it isn't going to be an acceptable solution.

If Porterbrook can find a couple of dozen Class 170s behind a sofa somewhere, they might look at doing a quick interior refresh to offer a relatively cheap, well-understood alternative.

Not sure there's anything else that's around in sufficient numbers to be a credible alternative.

Reading the document link above - would I be correct in understanding that the intention is to have all the Inter7City Services covered by the "new" rolling stock (ie not a combination of 170 & whatever they end up with)?

Not quite all, AFAIK - the full I7C service as originally envisaged had 23 diagrams to cover. Which was never going to happen with HSTs unless they were totally gutted and rebuilt at vast cost.

 

[380101]

I wouldn't be surprised if Angel Trains submit a bid to do something to the HSTs, unless the full requirements document makes it clear that it isn't going to be an acceptable solution.

The invitation to tender document published today makes it quite clear it is a tender for a replacement for the intercity, which clearly rules out Angel submitting a bid to do something with the HSTs given that they are the current intercity fleet.

 

[ChristopherJ]

I'm putting my money on a Stadler FLIRT with panoramic ceilings.

A 7-car bimode Class 755 with dome cars. Perfect for the Scottish Highlands.

Yes, I know Stadler don't have a factory in the UK, but this is the Scottish Government. The 'Built in Britain' propaganda is mostly English ideology. Hollyrood will tell Westminster we're going to Switzerland, bugger off.

 

[TheLancsNinja]

I'm putting my money on a Stadler FLIRT with panoramic ceilings.

A 7-car bimode Class 755 with dome cars. Perfect for the Scottish Highlands.

Yes, I know Stadler don't have a factory in the UK, but this is the Scottish Government. The 'Built in Britain' propaganda is mostly English ideology. Hollyrood will tell Westminster we're going to Switzerland, bugger off.

Only trouble with that (nice as it would be) is that it isn't an existing fleet that just needs a "quick" refurb, the tender wording seems to rule out new build stock...

 

[VioletEclipse]

I'm putting my money on a Stadler FLIRT with panoramic ceilings.

A 7-car bimode Class 755 with dome cars. Perfect for the Scottish Highlands.

Yes, I know Stadler don't have a factory in the UK, but this is the Scottish Government. The 'Built in Britain' propaganda is mostly English ideology. Hollyrood will tell Westminster we're going to Switzerland, bugger off.

Stadler flirts would be wonderful, however I am fairly pessimistic and doubt that we'll see any in Scotland within the next few years. Although I do hope that the next new fleet will be flirts, as there are a lot of trains in the fleet which will need to be replaced in the next decade or so.

 

[Indigo Soup]

The invitation to tender document published today makes it quite clear it is a tender for a replacement for the intercity, which clearly rules out Angel submitting a bid to do something with the HSTs given that they are the current intercity fleet.

It's titled that, but that's only a title.

What it actually specifies is that the Fleet will be required to demonstrate improved reliability and availability, reduced emissions and operating costs compared to the current HSTs. If Angel reckon they have a way of achieving that by overhauling HSTs by December 2027 at the latest, it would be within the remit of the procurement.

I expect that the full tender package will explicitly state the level of improvement they're looking for, and that it will be set at a level that no HST overhaul can achieve. But on the language of the contract notice alone, further refurbishing HSTs isn't actually ruled out.

I'm putting my money on a Stadler FLIRT with panoramic ceilings.

The contract notice does explicitly rule out procurement of a new build train, so I'll happily take your bet!

 

[380101]

I'm putting my money on a Stadler FLIRT with panoramic ceilings.

A 7-car bimode Class 755 with dome cars. Perfect for the Scottish Highlands.

Yes, I know Stadler don't have a factory in the UK, but this is the Scottish Government. The 'Built in Britain' propaganda is mostly English ideology. Hollyrood will tell Westminster we're going to Switzerland, bugger off.

The tender document clearly indicates it is to be a supply of an existing fleet ie; 222/221/220 etc and definitely not a new build.

 

[delt1c]

Ok I know due to requirements wouldnt meet options required, but always felt with their high power the 185's would have been great for Scotland.

 

[InOban]

I think we can assume that this ITT has been issued because Scotrail have been told that the 22x fleet will be available then and have been offered them. They're simply following due process.

 

[Scotrail84]

is there enough Mk4 sets going about to fulfil ScotRails needs, and would they be available in that timescale?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I predicted ages ago that this would happen, a final throwing in of the towel on the disaster that has been the Scottish HST project, they will at least have the political credibility of saying at the next Scottish election. That replacements for these are coming at a much higher speed than the trains ever operated at in passenger service. Realistically the 222 could quite happily operate until 2040 by which point they would also be. Life expired but this would be fine as there will hopefully by then be some alternative cascades available or money for new build stock

 

[trainswitheddy]

If pushing for 2026 I'm assuming this, for now, rules out the possibility of new build stock? Does this mean 222s are inevitable ?

 

[PG]

If Angel reckon they have a way of achieving that by overhauling HSTs by December 2027 at the latest, it would be within the remit of the procurement.

If it did go that way lets hope Wabtec aren't the ones tasked with the job!