The Conservative Party under Kemi Badenoch

[AlterEgo]

Ah yes, attacking the British institution that is the sandwich and talking about having someone bring you steaks for lunch. Badenoch is sure to win back working class voters this way by being so in touch with them!

This, and going on about being Yoruba and not Nigerian and having "ethnic enemies" in Nigeria. Bonkers, a total hatstand of a candidate. No redeeming qualities. Hope the Tories enjoy being in opposition.

 

[ChrisC]

This, and going on about being Yoruba and not Nigerian and having "ethnic enemies" in Nigeria. Bonkers, a total hatstand of a candidate. No redeeming qualities. Hope the Tories enjoy being in opposition.

I wasn‘t very keen on Jenrick and disagreed with him on a number of things, but at least mostly he seemed to be reasonably sensible.

 

[Harpo]

I wasn‘t very keen on Jenrick and disagreed with him on a number of things, but at least mostly he seemed to be reasonably sensible.

Worrying when Jenrick appears to be the sensible option!

 

[Falcon1200]

Ah yes, attacking the British institution that is the sandwich and talking about having someone bring you steaks for lunch. Badenoch is sure to win back working class voters this way by being so in touch with them!

Distaste for the Great British Sandwich (bacon in this case) does not seem to have done Ed Milliband lasting harm, as he is now a Government Minister, although whether he is any more likely than before to win back working class voters is debatable.

 

[Tracked]

Distaste for the Great British Sandwich (bacon in this case) does not seem to have done Ed Milliband lasting harm, as he is now a Government Minister, although whether he is any more likely than before to win back working class voters is debatable.

He was actually eating one, awkwardly, not slagging them off and eating a steak for lunch while not having lunch ... or whatever ... Parklife!

 

[Acfb]

Worrying when Jenrick appears to be the sensible option!

I would argue Jenrick is a considerably worse individual than Badenoch (as well as his most trenchant supporters such as Nick Timothy and Neil O'Brien). He was trying to make political capital out of the Magdeburg attack last night before the facts were known which was absolutely vile.

Badenoch isn't good at politics, is basically a right wing policy wonk and is malign on the trans issue but at least she hasn't talked about withdrawing from the ECHR and the fact she irritates annoying Westminister village journalists is actually a plus point IMHO.

 

[takno]

I would argue Jenrick is a considerably worse individual than Badenoch (as well as his most trenchant supporters such as Nick Timothy and Neil O'Brien). He was trying to make political capital out of the Magdeburg attack last night before the facts were known which was absolutely vile.

Badenoch isn't good at politics, is basically a right wing policy wonk and is malign on the trans issue but at least she hasn't talked about withdrawing from the ECHR and the fact she irritates annoying Westminister village journalists is actually a plus point IMHO.

How Nick Timothy has the gall to show his face in public I have no idea. His hostile environment created a Home Office incapable of managing immigration without turning it into an expensive hate-driven farce, his red lines forced us into the worst form of Brexit, and then his manifesto threw away the 2017 election. Truly Westminster's village idiot.

 

[Statto]

He was actually eating one, awkwardly, not slagging them off and eating a steak for lunch while not having lunch ... or whatever ... Parklife!

Ed Miliband is Jewish, Jews don't consume any pork or pork products for religious reasons, that's why he was uncomfortable eating a bacon sandwich.

 

[takno]

Ed Miliband is Jewish, Jews don't consume any pork or pork products for religious reasons, that's why he was uncomfortable eating a bacon sandwich.

That was certainly the implication that some of the papers were keen to put about, with some overtones of dog-whistle antisemitism. In fact Milliband is a Jewish atheist, so there's no sense in which pork is off the table.

Either way there isn't a rule which says that observant Jews can eat pork as long as they pull a face, so the idea that this was a factor was a bit odd.

Most of the coverage in any case was just designed to show Milliband as too gawky and awkward to be an acceptable prime minister.

 

[nw1]

Regarding possible future Conservative leadership is there a chance Boris could make a comeback?

I'm thinking of this kind of scenario. Labour don't recover enough in popularity to win the next election but the Tories remain unpopular under Badenoch, or whoever might replace her. There is a power vacuum with neither Labour nor the Tories anywhere close to securing a majority in the opinion polls. There is increasing concern about the risk of a hard-right Farage government. As a result, Boris is launched back into the fray as Tory leader, once again (following his selection as a candidate for a safe seat at a byelection), the rationale being that by 2028/29 it will be a while since Partygate. As someone who seems to crave power more than being attached to a particular ideology, he adopts a somewhat more liberal platform than 2019 - maybe somewhere intermediate between his stance as London Mayor and as PM, in order to attract people other than the anti-woke, anti-immigration, anti-EU lot.

Maybe that could work in the sense that many would vote "Anyone But Farage"... even Boris? I suspect that there will be real fear in a very large percentage of the population of a Farage government (and whether there would be severe erosion of civil rights as a result) and almost anyone else will be preferable.

I'm no fan of Boris or the Tories but I would infinitely prefer a Boris comeback than a Farage government.

 

[Cloud Strife]

He farms around 1000 acres in the Cotswolds, and made a profit in 2024 before drawings and depreciation of only £32,190.

The most sensible and reasonable approach to IHT for farmland is to look at what the land is actually being used for. It shouldn't be rocket science for IHT to be based on land use, so farmers would be expected to "use it or it gets taxed". A quick look suggests that five years is about the maximum that a farmer would leave a field fallow, so it should be reasonable enough to ask farmers to declare every year how they're using their fields. You can then allow exemptions if a field is left fallow for environmental reasons, which would require pre-approval from the council so that everyone doesn't try the "I'm leaving this fallow to avoid IHT" scam.

There is a power vacuum with neither Labour nor the Tories anywhere close to securing a majority in the opinion polls.

I would bet on a German-style Grand Coalition in this case. However, if Farage and Reform show signs of actually winning FPTP seats, then I suspect that tactical voting will take place to ensure that they don't win seats.

Regarding possible future Conservative leadership is there a chance Boris could make a comeback?

I don't think so, but this is solely in terms of earnings. People like Boris can command a fair chunk of cash for after dinner speeches, which is why many former leaders tend to slip into the backbenches and go unnoticed after they leave the job.

 

[Gloster]

Regarding possible future Conservative leadership is there a chance Boris could make a comeback?

I'm thinking of this kind of scenario. Labour don't recover enough in popularity to win the next election but the Tories remain unpopular under Badenoch, or whoever might replace her. There is a power vacuum with neither Labour nor the Tories anywhere close to securing a majority in the opinion polls. There is increasing concern about the risk of a hard-right Farage government. As a result, Boris is launched back into the fray as Tory leader, once again (following his selection as a candidate for a safe seat at a byelection), the rationale being that by 2028/29 it will be a while since Partygate. As someone who seems to crave power more than being attached to a particular ideology, he adopts a somewhat more liberal platform than 2019 - maybe somewhere intermediate between his stance as London Mayor and as PM, in order to attract people other than the anti-woke, anti-immigration, anti-EU lot.

Maybe that could work in the sense that many would vote "Anyone But Farage"... even Boris? I suspect that there will be real fear in a very large percentage of the population of a Farage government (and whether there would be severe erosion of civil rights as a result) and almost anyone else will be preferable.

I'm no fan of Boris or the Tories but I would infinitely prefer a Boris comeback than a Farage government.

Frankly and luckily, I think not. He might have done so a bit earlier, but his flouncing off and his (occasionally) even more erratic behaviour has probably made it a no go. Anyway, there wouldn’t be enough money in it.

 

[Harpo]

Unfortunately, a big chunk of the Tories appear to believe that Boris is the Messiah and fail to see that he was a very naughty boy.

Boris and Farage are both snake oil salesmen who work a blinkered electorate with a goldfish memory span. I’ve still got Boris filed under ‘P’.

Prorogation
Patel
PPE
Pandemic deaths
Posh Paper
Patterson
Publisher peerage
Protocols
Pepper Pig
Partygate
Police fines
Porkies
Parliamentary standards committee
Pincher
Peerages denied

 

[Falcon1200]

Ed Miliband is Jewish, Jews don't consume any pork or pork products for religious reasons, that's why he was uncomfortable eating a bacon sandwich.

In which case, why did he not simply decline to eat it? And why was it offered to, and accepted by, him in the first place?

 

[edwin_m]

Frankly and luckily, I think not. He might have done so a bit earlier, but his flouncing off and his (occasionally) even more erratic behaviour has probably made it a no go. Anyway, there wouldn’t be enough money in it.

I believe Johnson would have to serve his suspension immediately after any return to the Commons, reminding everyone of why he left in the first place.

 

[nw1]

In which case, why did he not simply decline to eat it? And why was it offered to, and accepted by, him in the first place?

Because as already stated he is non-religious.

Whatever, it was all a load of fuss about nothing, blown up by a right-wing media desperate to implement Brexit, which would not have happened under a hypothetical 2015 Miliband-led coalition government (a majority was always off the cards).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2024 ==

I would bet on a German-style Grand Coalition in this case. However, if Farage and Reform show signs of actually winning FPTP seats, then I suspect that tactical voting will take place to ensure that they don't win seats.

I'm hoping this would be the case. Whatever happens, we absolutely must avoid a Farage government at all costs (even if the cost is Boris).
France, I guess, have shown what can happen when there is a serious threat of a hard-right or far-right government this summer in the sense that the anti-far-right organised to prevent it. Perhaps we need an organised Left group here, in the same way that France does. The rise of left-wing independents in inner-cities suggests that there might be room for a Left grouping in UK politics.

 

[Falcon1200]

Whatever, it was all a load of fuss about nothing,

Does that not apply equally then to the criticism of Kemi Badenoch?

 

[nw1]

Does that not apply equally then to the criticism of Kemi Badenoch?

Except she was saying "lunch is for wimps", which smacks to me of a member of the privileged elite lording it all over us and telling us to work over our lunch breaks to improve company profits.

 

[Falcon1200]

Except she was saying "lunch is for wimps",

Were those the actual words she used?

Could it not just as easily be said that Ed Milliband's distaste for a bacon sandwich demonstrated disdain from a member of the lording elite for a staple food of ordinary people!

IMHO both incidents were trivial, but I can't help thinking that far more is being made of Badenoch's simply because she is a Tory.

 

[nw1]

Were those the actual words she used?

See quote in post #1.

Could it not just as easily be said that Ed Milliband's distaste for a bacon sandwich demonstrated disdain from a member of the lording elite for a staple food of ordinary people!

Or it might just mean he doesn't like bacon.

 

[Statto]

I'll be amazed if Badenoch stays Tory leader to the next election, she can't help making an idiot of herself, & the Tories are quite ruthless getting rid of leaders they see as useless (it sums up the state of the party right now that she is leader), she's being helped as Starmer isn't doing a good job right now, not anything she has done.

 

[Tetragon213]

I would be amazed if she survives to the end of next year without being ousted.

 

[Tracked]

Does that not apply equally then to the criticism of Kemi Badenoch?

I think with Kemi it's more that her leadership so far hasn't made much of an impression, can't really say what her policies or her personality as leader are like, so we're left with the fact that she doesn't like sandwiches.

Could probably have said the same about Keir - apart from the sandwich issue - but there was that pandemic happening at that point which probably overshadowed things

 

[Cloud Strife]

The rise of left-wing independents in inner-cities suggests that there might be room for a Left grouping in UK politics.

I could see a gap in the political market for a left wing economically, but right wing socially party. A lot of the old hard left wing were quite conservative socially, and nothing has really replaced them. It would present a credible challenge to Farage on the right, and would offer an alternative political model to the alienated who seek the old "local jobs, local people and local traditions" philosophy that only Farage and co currently offer.

There is an argument in some left wing circles that social liberalism doesn't actually suit the left wing at all, because it leads to worse conditions for workers and people in general.

 

[Harpo]

There is an argument in some left wing circles that social liberalism doesn't actually suit the left wing at all, because it leads to worse conditions for workers and people in general.

There is definitely room for a balance that provides for the very essential wealth-makers who create jobs and growth, balanced by employment protections.

Most of the recent employment improvements came through the EU (e.g. working time directive) but there is plenty of scope for reduction of employment abuses. Abolishing compulsory overtime except for certain emergencies or contingencies would be one but you can imagine how much DfT would resist it!

 

[JamesT]

I could see a gap in the political market for a left wing economically, but right wing socially party. A lot of the old hard left wing were quite conservative socially, and nothing has really replaced them. It would present a credible challenge to Farage on the right, and would offer an alternative political model to the alienated who seek the old "local jobs, local people and local traditions" philosophy that only Farage and co currently offer.

There is an argument in some left wing circles that social liberalism doesn't actually suit the left wing at all, because it leads to worse conditions for workers and people in general.

George Galloway’s Workers Party? They seem to fit those broad policy outlines. Though their candidate selection appears even nuttier than Reform.

 

[Falcon1200]

Or it might just mean he doesn't like bacon.

In which case, as I asked in Post #44, why accept the sandwich in the first place? Trying to eat something he doesn't like is worse than simply saying 'no thanks', and frankly daft.

My version of Milliband's bacon is beetroot, and when my work colleagues (knowingly) offered me one of their cheese & beetroot sandwiches, they were met by a firm and (sometimes) polite refusal!

See quote in post #1.

Fair enough! But I don't agree with her.

 

[Gloster]

In which case, as I asked in Post #44, why accept the sandwich in the first place? Trying to eat something he doesn't like is worse than simply saying 'no thanks', and frankly daft.

My version of Milliband's bacon is beetroot, and when my work colleagues (knowingly) offered me one of their cheese & beetroot sandwiches, they were met by a firm and (sometimes) polite refusal!

And what would the headlines have been if he had refused it? ‘Out of touch Milliband won’t eat the world’s most popular sandwich‘, ’Britain’s favourite food refused by stuck-up bigEd’, etc. It might have been better to have brazened it out, but it was a tails-I-win/heads-you-lose situation.

 

[nw1]

I could see a gap in the political market for a left wing economically, but right wing socially party. A lot of the old hard left wing were quite conservative socially, and nothing has really replaced them. It would present a credible challenge to Farage on the right, and would offer an alternative political model to the alienated who seek the old "local jobs, local people and local traditions" philosophy that only Farage and co currently offer.

To be honest that wasn't what I was really suggesting; I was thinking of something which is left-wing on both counts. So more pro-workers-rights than Labour for example. I was thinking of, perhaps, a form of Corbynism but with a leader who appeals to more people than Corbyn did. While Corbyn was a little Brexity I think most would consider him socially liberal.

There is a good percentage of the population, I suspect, who consider that Labour needs to be a bit more left wing economically (e.g. keep winter fuel payments, do not raise student tuition fees, keep the bus cap at £2), but absolutely not more right-wing socially. I know I am one, for example, and I don't think I'm alone.

I certainly wouldn't want Galloway, or a UK answer to Robert Fico, anywhere near power, for example.

There is an argument in some left wing circles that social liberalism doesn't actually suit the left wing at all, because it leads to worse conditions for workers and people in general

It's a bit of a daft argument though. Being pro-LGBTQ+ rights for example, or pro ethnic-minority rights, doesn't lead to worse conditions for workers or people in general.

 

[jfollows]

Kemi Badenoch is deluded or guilty of wishful thinking when she says that her party is united, and she’ll be out before too long. Anyone can see they’re still arguing amongst themselves, and to say otherwise is bonkers. But it’s what they do. Good riddance!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2024 ==

At some point we might be able to have a sensible discussion between alternatives, such as low-tax versus intervention, but not today.