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The Conservative Party under Kemi Badenoch

oldman

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The Tories always follow the Republicans' tactics. Threatening to sue political opponents is standard Trumpery.

So why isn't Reeves being accused of being worse than Truss and 'crashing the economy'?
I expect she will be, in the Tory press. Part of Truss's problem was that her own party turned against her.

You may want to fact-check your £11.6bn in the last budget for foreign climate change aid.
In 2019, the UK pledged £11.6 billion in ICF from 2021/22 to 2025/26, of which 55% will be spent in 2024/25 and 2025/26. All ICF comes from the aid budget.
Source:House of Commons Library

The carbon capture money is long-term, building on a Tory government announcement in 2023 of £20bn.
 
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JamesT

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I am unsure that the accusations are based solely on bond rates?
They are the most obvious indicator. Because the gilt rates spiked, pension funds which had relied on the existing rates ran into trouble and required the Bank of England to intervene. It also raised the costs of government borrowing, regardless of any additional commitments.

It's not been as immediate as after Truss's budget, but the indicators appear to be moving in the same direction following Reeve's one.
 

takno

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They are the most obvious indicator. Because the gilt rates spiked, pension funds which had relied on the existing rates ran into trouble and required the Bank of England to intervene. It also raised the costs of government borrowing, regardless of any additional commitments.

It's not been as immediate as after Truss's budget, but the indicators appear to be moving in the same direction following Reeve's one.
A lot of the difference is that the rates are rising somewhat more slowly, and in a world where other countries' bond rates are also rising. The problem with the Truss situation is that she'd created a panic where it was entirely possible that the bond situation would continue to deteriorate, and as such speed that pensions were completely unable to react in a sustainable way.

Arguably there isn't any way out of the current situation without at least trying something risky. We are running a high level of debt which is costly and ultimately is in a position where it very stably spirals. It suits the market very well for that spiralling to happen, and if we continue to take our cues day-to-day for how well the government is managing the economy from the whims of the bond market, then the situation will never be allowed to improve.

Truss was right in as much as she understood that there needs to be some structural change. She happened to be completely wrong in her analysis of what those changes needed to be, but to be honest that wasn't what tanked the economy. What did that was that she went in too hard, too fast, too obviously incompetently, and at a point when energy prices and uncertainty about the economic effects of lockdown was too high.

It is also worth noting that there's a lot of talk about how the gilt prices are the markets responding to the budget, but that was 3 months ago. In the meantime Trump has won the election and spent a couple of months making increasingly-erratic pronouncements, many of which are a threat to UK stability and security, and many more are focused on soon creating a glut of cheap American gilts. There are many short-term reasons for gilt prices to be spiking, and it's not especially reasonable to put the blame at the government's long-term spending strategy.
 

brad465

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Truss was accused of 'crashing the economy' because the 10 year bond rates rose to 4.747%. The rates today, under Rachel Reeves, are 4.796%. So why isn't Reeves being accused of being worse than Truss and 'crashing the economy'?

(No, it's not the £22bn fictitious black hole, fixing the foundations, 14 year's Tory rule etc. The spending plans set out in Reeves' Budget included a lot of discretionary spend which did not need to be committed - e.g. foreign aid for farmers, untested carbon capture of £22bn (we capture it while other countries keep producing it), foreign climate change aid of £11.6bn. Need I go on?)
The trend is key: in the UK since October the rise has been gradual and also following the trend of US bonds. Under Truss they increased very suddenly, creating panic and much more uncertainty. I haven't yet seen news of mortgage lenders pulling a large proportion of their products in the current situation, but under Truss they were as much a story as both the bond and pension fund markets.
They are the most obvious indicator. Because the gilt rates spiked, pension funds which had relied on the existing rates ran into trouble and required the Bank of England to intervene. It also raised the costs of government borrowing, regardless of any additional commitments.

It's not been as immediate as after Truss's budget, but the indicators appear to be moving in the same direction following Reeve's one.
Comparing the UK and US 10 year bond markets reveals a comparable trend. Granted they're not identical, but they are similar and the current % values are also similar. That doesn't mean the UK budget has had no impact, but this suggests it's got external factors influencing the value as well:


1736439433452.png
(US 10 year Treasury note graph over the last 12 months, current value 4.667%)


1736439478139.png
(UK 10 year gilt market graph over the last 12 months, current value 4.812%)
 

edwin_m

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What did that was that she went in too hard, too fast, too obviously incompetently, and at a point when energy prices and uncertainty about the economic effects of lockdown was too high.
And without the normal checks and balances (referral to Office of Budget Responsibility) which made people assume she was doing something highly unorthodox. Kwarteng was also metaphorically rubbing his hands and saying that was only the start.
 

brad465

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This has to be one of the best lines to describe a politician I've ever read (in this case Tom Tugendhat):


...

Tugendhat, a good man, but also proof of how far a pukka accent and background can take an empty vessel on the inert sea of British public life, isn’t alone...
 

Howardh

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I read she's decided that "state pension" and "means testing" go in the same sentence.

What??? Not sure how many pensioner votes they have left (most seem to go to Reform these days) but she's about to lose the remainder, and those saving and putting into private pensions. They will think "what's the point" if saving means less - or no - state pension??


Kemi Badenoch has been urged by a former Conservative pensions minister to clarify “what on earth she means” by suggesting the pensions triple lock could be means-tested, amid alarm within the party that she will lose support among older people.

The Conservative leader suggested she could back a major policy shift away from the universal promise introduced under her party that the state pension will rise each year by whichever is highest out of 2.5%, inflation, or earnings.


When asked during an LBC phone-in whether she would look at the triple lock, Badenoch said: “We’re going to look at means testing. Means testing is something which we don’t do properly here.”
 

MotCO

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I read she's decided that "state pension" and "means testing" go in the same sentence.

What??? Not sure how many pensioner votes they have left (most seem to go to Reform these days) but she's about to lose the remainder, and those saving and putting into private pensions. They will think "what's the point" if saving means less - or no - state pension??

Since denied by the Conservatives. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...ension-triple-lock-badenoch-report-fake-news/
Unless it was a u-turn. However, it is now reported that Labour will not guarantee the triple lock for the whole of this parliament. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...o-rule-out-means-testing-pension-triple-lock/
It's getting difficult to know who to believe.

I won’t means-test pension triple lock, says Badenoch​


Tories accuse Labour of spreading ‘fake news’ and insisting they ‘have always protected’ the guarantee



Kemi Badenoch has said she will not means-test the pension triple lock, with the Tories saying reports suggesting she would consider the change were “fake news”.
The Tory leader clarified her position on an LBC phone-in, during which she was asked if she would look at stripping the wealthiest retirees of the guarantee.
A listener asked Mrs Badenoch whether she would consider “looking at” pensioners who have the triple lock but do not need it.
She responded that redistributing funds from those who “do not need” them was “exactly the sort of thing” the Conservatives would look at, prompting confusion over whether she would consider means-testing the triple lock.


Labour leapt on the comments on Thursday night, with a Treasury source telling The Telegraph: “Kemi Badenoch finally has her first policy – a cut to the state pension.” But the Tories hit back, accusing Labour of spreading “fake news”.
The triple lock, introduced by the Conservatives under Lord Cameron, ensures that the state pension increases by whichever is highest out of inflation, average wage rises and 2.5 per cent, and applies to everyone with a state pension.



During the phone-in, a listener put it to Mrs Badenoch that “there are some people that get the pension or get the triple lock applied to it who do not need it” and asked: “Shouldn’t we look at that and perhaps using that money to help build more houses or help young people to become homeowners?”

The Tory leader replied: “So that’s exactly the sort of thing that the policy work we’re going to be doing will look at. I have always said that we don’t do means-testing…” She was then interrupted by Iain Dale, the LBC host, who said: “So you’re actually going to look at the triple lock?”
Mrs Badenoch responded: “No, we’re going to look at means-testing. Means testing is something which we don’t do properly here. I’m someone who always said, for example, that millionaires should not be getting the winter fuel payment.
It is understood that the Tory leader was proposing to means-test the winter fuel payment, not the pensions triple lock. She has accused Labour of going too far by stripping all but the poorest pensioners of the benefit.
During the LBC show, Mrs Badenoch said that Rachel Reeves, the Chancellor, had taken means-testing “to the extreme” where “people who are actually on the breadline have had their winter fuel payment taken away”.
She continued: “We don’t have a system that knows who should get what. That’s the sort of thing that we need to be looking at. Now, the triple lock is a policy which we supported throughout our 14 years in government. That was a Conservative policy, but we need to make sure that we are growing.”


An ally of Mrs Badenoch said: “Kemi literally said yesterday she is going to take her time building policy, and she wants to look at everything – means-testing, tuition fees, immigration and so on.
“The fact that Labour are rushing out fake press releases to pretend that these are policies rather than debates we need and must have shows Starmer and Reeves are the old, dishonest politics and they’re already out of ideas.”
Asked about Mrs Badenoch’s triple lock comments on Friday morning, Nigel Huddleston, the Conservative Party co-chairman, said: “I think you have been reading too many Labour Party press releases there. What Kemi said yesterday in answer to the triple lock, are you going to get rid of the triple lock, the first word out of her mouth was ‘no’.”
A Tory source said the party had no plans to touch the state pension or the triple lock but would look at means-testing more generally.
In a post on X, formerly Twitter, the Tories wrote: “On a day where Kemi said it was time to tell the truth, the Labour Party is skewing her words for political gain and lying about what she said. We will look at means-testing. But the Conservatives have always protected the triple lock. Ignore the fake news!”
Labour doubled down on its claims on Friday, with spokesman saying: “Kemi Badenoch and her Tory party chair have let the mask slip: they’d cut your state pension. The Conservatives are still in chaos, announcing policies on the hoof that would mean a raid on pension pots.
“Meanwhile the Labour Government has taken tough action to clean up the Tories’ economic mess, meaning we can guarantee a £470 cash boost for pensions in April.”



Labour refuses to rule out means-testing pension triple lock​


Spokesman says PM is ‘committed’ to policy but cannot guarantee it will be in place for whole of this Parliament
Labour has refused to rule out means-testing the pension triple lock following a row with Kemi Badenoch over the state pension.
Sir Keir Starmer’s spokesman insisted on Friday that the Prime Minister was “committed” to the policy but could not guarantee that it would exist in its present form for the whole of the current Parliament.
The triple lock ensures that the state pension rises in line with either inflation, average wage rises or 2.5 per cent, whichever is highest.
Labour is claiming Mrs Badenoch wants to cut the state pension after she said redistributing funds from those who “do not need it” was “the sort of thing” her party would look at.
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But the Tory leader said “no” when asked specifically whether she would revisit the triple lock. Her party subsequently accused Labour of spreading “fake news”.



Asked on Friday whether the state pension triple lock was unaffordable, Sir Keir’s official spokesman said: “The Prime Minister is committed both to the triple lock and the principle of people receiving a state pension based on the contribution they have made over their lifetime, regardless of wealth.”
Challenged on whether Sir Keir could rule out considering means-testing the state pension, the spokesman said: “I’ve just said our commitment to the triple lock is clear. The principle of receiving the state pension based on the contribution they have made over their lifetime is clear. I don’t think we can be much clearer than that.”



Asked whether the triple lock would be in place for the whole of this Parliament – likely to run until 2029, when the next election is expected – the spokesman said: “I don’t think I can add anything more to what I’ve just said.”
Labour doubled down on its claims about Mrs Badenoch on Friday, saying she had “let the mask slip” on her plans for the state pension.
But in a post on X on Thursday night, the Conservatives accused Sir Keir’s party of “lying” and said: “We will look at means-testing. But the Conservatives have always protected the triple lock.”




Torsten Bell, the Government’s new pensions minister, once proposed scrapping the triple lock as well as valuable tax reliefs on the retirement savings of higher earners.
His appointment on Wednesday, part of a mini-reshuffle that followed the resignation of Tulip Siddiq, prompted the Tories to claim that the triple lock was “under threat”.
In 2020, he advocated replacing the triple lock with a different system that would allow for “short-term deviations” in the state pension in order to protect its value.
The state pension is currently on track to become taxable by 2028, although no plans have been announced that would match a Tory pledge of a higher tax-free personal allowance for retirees.
 

dangie

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On BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg this morning she interviewed ex-Beatle Sir Paul McCartney. Also on the show were Chancellor Rachel Reeves & Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch. Before the interviews she asked them which was their favourite Beatles song.

Rachel Reeves answered ‘Hey Jude’. Fair enough.
Kemi Badenoch thought for a few seconds, obviously trying to remember a Beatles song, then replied with ‘Yellow Submarine’.

As a 74 year old staunch Beatles fan, whilst I’m not knocking Yellow Submarine in any way, I had the feeling it was the only Beatles song she knew. For the leader of a major political party, definitely not acceptable <(<(
:D:D
 

43096

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On BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg this morning she interviewed ex-Beatle Sir Paul McCartney. Also on the show were Chancellor Rachel Reeves & Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch. Before the interviews she asked them which was their favourite Beatles song.

Rachel Reeves answered ‘Hey Jude’. Fair enough.
Kemi Badenoch thought for a few seconds, obviously trying to remember a Beatles song, then replied with ‘Yellow Submarine’.

As a 74 year old staunch Beatles fan, whilst I’m not knocking Yellow Submarine in any way, I had the feeling it was the only Beatles song she knew. For the leader of a major political party, definitely not acceptable <(<(
:D:D
Of all the things to criticise Badenoch for - and there are plenty of - lack of encyclopaedic knowledge of a band that split up 10 years before she was even born is just strange.

And if you want my favourite Beatles song, there isn’t one. Utterly overrated and tedious band.
 

takno

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On BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg this morning she interviewed ex-Beatle Sir Paul McCartney. Also on the show were Chancellor Rachel Reeves & Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch. Before the interviews she asked them which was their favourite Beatles song.

Rachel Reeves answered ‘Hey Jude’. Fair enough.
Kemi Badenoch thought for a few seconds, obviously trying to remember a Beatles song, then replied with ‘Yellow Submarine’.

As a 74 year old staunch Beatles fan, whilst I’m not knocking Yellow Submarine in any way, I had the feeling it was the only Beatles song she knew. For the leader of a major political party, definitely not acceptable <(<(
:D:D
That's an interesting one. Kuenssberg was born in 1976, and the other two in 1979 and 1980. That's an age group where the Beatles were rapidly losing relevance in society. John Lennon was essentially already dead, and the others were producing fat nothingburgers of songs. I can remember boring afternoons watching the films because there was nothing else on, and my parents had some scratchy vinyl kicking around, but when hanging around with people my own age they would have only have been mentioned by slightly oddball obsessive types.

Given Kemi's childhood and background I can well imagine she had fairly minimal exposure to the band. In terms of political leaders (or commentators for that matter), I think after the current generation you might be out of luck of anybody who cares about the Beatles!
 

dosxuk

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Kemi Badenoch thought for a few seconds, obviously trying to remember a Beatles song, then replied with ‘Yellow Submarine’.

As a 74 year old staunch Beatles fan, whilst I’m not knocking Yellow Submarine in any way, I had the feeling it was the only Beatles song she knew. For the leader of a major political party, definitely not acceptable <(<(
:D:D
Could have been worse, she could have said The Frog Song.
 

jfollows

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That's an interesting one. Kuenssberg was born in 1976, and the other two in 1979 and 1980. That's an age group where the Beatles were rapidly losing relevance in society.
I think that’s true; I was born in 1961 and even then when I grew up The Beatles were someting my dad liked, probably the last “popular” group he identified with, and for me they were old hat. Later on I came to appreciate their abilities but I’d never say I’ve been a fan.
 

317 forever

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On BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg this morning she interviewed ex-Beatle Sir Paul McCartney. Also on the show were Chancellor Rachel Reeves & Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch. Before the interviews she asked them which was their favourite Beatles song.

Rachel Reeves answered ‘Hey Jude’. Fair enough.
Kemi Badenoch thought for a few seconds, obviously trying to remember a Beatles song, then replied with ‘Yellow Submarine’.

As a 74 year old staunch Beatles fan, whilst I’m not knocking Yellow Submarine in any way, I had the feeling it was the only Beatles song she knew. For the leader of a major political party, definitely not acceptable <(<(
:D:D
As yellow is the colour used by the SNP, I'm surprised she didn't select a track from the Beatles' Blue album. :lol:
 

brad465

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The irony that Badenoch says there's a lack of integration into society, while struggling with a question that someone integrated into society would easily answer.
 

Howardh

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On BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg this morning she interviewed ex-Beatle Sir Paul McCartney. Also on the show were Chancellor Rachel Reeves & Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch. Before the interviews she asked them which was their favourite Beatles song.

Rachel Reeves answered ‘Hey Jude’. Fair enough.
Kemi Badenoch thought for a few seconds, obviously trying to remember a Beatles song, then replied with ‘Yellow Submarine’.

As a 74 year old staunch Beatles fan, whilst I’m not knocking Yellow Submarine in any way, I had the feeling it was the only Beatles song she knew. For the leader of a major political party, definitely not acceptable <(<(
:D:D

If someone in a quiz asked me for one Beatles song, I'd be struggling. I was born in 1958 and most, if not all, of the Presley/Beatles "hysteria" went right over my head - I really didn't like their music. Can't remember what I did like until the early 70's when glam rock appeared!

Anyhow - a presenter asking a politician to name anything like that "favourite team/country/food/pop star etc" should be a no-no, as if they answer they will possibly anger those who prefer something/one else!!
 

gg1

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If someone in a quiz asked me for one Beatles song, I'd be struggling. I was born in 1958 and most, if not all, of the Presley/Beatles "hysteria" went right over my head - I really didn't like their music. Can't remember what I did like until the early 70's when glam rock appeared!
I'd struggle too. I was born in 1975 so they were well before my time and my parents were in their 40s when I was born so it was a bit too modern for their tastes, as a result I never really heard them played at home as a child either.
 

AlterEgo

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Of all the things to criticise Badenoch for - and there are plenty of - lack of encyclopaedic knowledge of a band that split up 10 years before she was even born is just strange.

And if you want my favourite Beatles song, there isn’t one. Utterly overrated and tedious band.
Yes, it's a weird question to ask, but we know why it was asked.

Badenoch is not from the same cultural background as most of the party she is - apparently - leading. She was born here but spent the first 16 years of her life in Nigeria, and therefore has the cultural background of an immigrant. That doesn't preclude her from leadership, but it does outline how peculiarly foreign her brand of identity politics is, She was caught out talking about "ethnic enemies" - a really vile thing for most British people to say, but something which might resonate with some Nigerians.

Not everyone is going to have a favourite Beatles song, but for a potential PM who has apparently been so well-connected and plugged into British society - the society she wants to lead - to struggle to recall one at all is actually quite odd.

She's already been found out and will be gone in a year or two. Another very stupid installation by the terminally thick and desperate Conservative Party, who are getting exactly what they deserve and then some.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The irony that Badenoch says there's a lack of integration into society, while struggling with a question that someone integrated into society would easily answer.
Very well put.
 

Howardh

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I really not sure what "British Culture" is, or is supposed to be. In the past if you weren't sure whether someone was English you might drop in "I see they have enforced the follow-on on at the Oval" and see if they look bemused or not, and of course our renowned and often dry sense of humour + willingness to queue - but if we're harking back to the past "the good old days" then those were the days we castrated our war hero (Turing) for "gross indecency".

Whatever, we can't go back and our future leaders (including one or two who should never be anywhere the leadership) should concentrate on our future and not be blinded by "it was better in them old days" when we had polio, rickets, sent kids up chimneys, never went abroad and we had class 150's .
 

43096

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The irony that Badenoch says there's a lack of integration into society, while struggling with a question that someone integrated into society would easily answer.
Last time I checked, there wasn't a general requirement that to be integrated into British society you had to have a favourite Beatles song. I - and plenty of others (as demonstrated by other responses on here) - have zero interest in them.
 

Ediswan

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I think that’s true; I was born in 1961 and even then when I grew up The Beatles were someting my dad liked ...
Same age here. When the headmaster suggested The Beatles etc. were corrupting the the youth of tody, one of staff interrupted with "Headmaster, I think that was us.".
 

dangie

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If someone in a quiz asked me for one Beatles song, I'd be struggling.
I’m pretty sure most have heard (not necessarily liked) songs such as Yesterday, Let It Be, Penny Lane, Strawberry Fields Forever etc ….. Then of course there are many Beatles songs covered by other artists.

I’ve not read Charles Dickens but I could name some of his books. I’ve not watched any William Shakespeare but I could name some of his plays. On the music side I don’t listen to Classical Music but I can name composers and compositions.

All I am saying is that the Beatles, like them or not, that’s fine, are a massive part of music pop history. Beatlemania for those on here who remember it, was a 60’s teenage phenomenon. Even though they stopped recording together over 50 years ago, their music is still played today. What else in Kemi Badenoch’s modern British history knowledge bank is in short supply? :)
 

AlterEgo

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I really not sure what "British Culture" is, or is supposed to be.
That's fair enough, but are you standing to be the Prime Minister on a platform of making people integrate into "British Culture"?
 

Howardh

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That's fair enough, but are you standing to be the Prime Minister on a platform of making people integrate into "British Culture"?
Lancashire culture. That's what I would be standing on a platform forcing folks to integrate into. Toilets to go back outside, tea drunk from a saucer, dinner is mid-day, relay the motorways with cobble stones, ban lager....!! Mind you, wish Bolton could have it's trams back. The past was the future!
 

Falcon1200

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while struggling with a question that someone integrated into society would easily answer.

I very much doubt that either of my children, aged 32 and 30 and who have lived their entire lives in the UK, so presumably 'integrated into society', would be able to name many, indeed any, Beatles songs, let alone choose a favourite.
 

simonw

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I very much doubt that either of my children, aged 32 and 30 and who have lived their entire lives in the UK, so presumably 'integrated into society', would be able to name many, indeed any, Beatles songs, let alone choose a favourite.
Really, mine are the same age and certainly could
 

oldman

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Both Reeves and Badenoch revealed their age - one chose novelty nursery rhyme she might have sung with her children, the other a singalong anthem performed at special events (Glastonbury, Olympics). Neither chose a proper Beatles song.
 

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