No Trains on Boxing Day

[Porty]

Would they? Says who?

..but not to Edinburgh as there's engineering work on the tunnels immediately east of Waverley and work on a level crossing near Longniddry.

 

[12LDA28C]

I take some tablets to keep my blood pressure down, but I don’t know what that has to do with Lumo running trains on Boxing Day…

Still not able to explain how the Government is preventing Lumo from operating today then.

 

[camflyer]

To be fair it isn’t railway staff who are winging and whining about the current arrangements!

Scotland is clearly a different case. As for the rest of the UK, if a sufficiently decent rate is offered there would be volunteers. That would need to be paid for though and, as noted above, there isn’t even appetite to adequately staff the service on “normal” weekdays and Sundays. So I doubt it will change any time soon.

Yet other industries and sectors cope with staffing levels over the Christmas period without paying 3-4 times basic pay.

 

[philosopher]

To be fair it isn’t railway staff who are winging and whining about the current arrangements!

Scotland is clearly a different case. As for the rest of the UK, if a sufficiently decent rate is offered there would be volunteers. That would need to be paid for though and, as noted above, there isn’t even appetite to adequately staff the service on “normal” weekdays and Sundays. So I doubt it will change any time soon.

New Year is a generally a more significant event while Christmas is not as big in Scotland compared to England and Wales. So it would make sense for Scotrail to run Boxing Day services but not New Year‘s Day services, which is the reverse of what most other National Operators do.

 

[baz962]

You are correct that there are 9 identified public holidays in Scotland, employers are allowed to use statutory days off as that public holiday. The statutory number of days off is 28 days in the UK which means 9 of them can be allocated to public holidays and 19 of them can be allocated as annual leave in Scotland if the employer wishes or more likely the employee gets 8 public holidays and 20 annual leave days (statutory). Employers may offer more generous leave arrangements than the statutory (as my employer does).


Network Rail pays a hefty premium to ensure the contractor staff (and some NR staff) turn out on certain shifts this time of year to ensure the engineering work is adequately resourced


Normally two years notice

Not necessarily 28 days though. Depends on the shift pattern . Eg if you do 12 hour and 4 on 4 off its 19.6 days leave a year and so on.

 

[dk1]

Yet other industries and sectors cope with staffing levels over the Christmas period without paying 3-4 times basic pay.

We are not other industries however. We have strong unions who have long fought for our working conditions. I for one am celebrating my 40th Christmas of railway employment and haven’t worked a single 25th or 26th December in that time.

 

[Magdalia]

Easy example of this being untrue is my own team, Luton, playing away to Bristol City today. Last year boxing day was away to Sheffield United.

The higher up you go, the less true it is. Last season a long journey on Boxing Day was one of the downsides of being in the Premiership.

This season, at least you are not playing Sunderland.

Only 11 years ago Luton were in the Conference and played Barnet on Boxing Day.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

off course, hence I said not all routes would be available every year.

We looked at a fairly comprehensive England and Wales service pattern for Boxing Day many years ago when I worked with ATOC - allowing for known route blocks and providing for eample one route to London - Birmingham and so on. Obviously demand as well as operational elements were considered - and over a shortened working day. There was very good input from the TOC's.

So , allowing for extra staffing costs etc - it pretty much was the right side of a business case.

Of course , the DfT refused any consideration and got quite cross that we had done this pro bono public excercise. Never considered again.

 

[Haywain]

Yet other industries and sectors cope with staffing levels over the Christmas period without paying 3-4 times basic pay.

Do you work in such an industry?

 

[Lewisham2221]

Yet other industries and sectors cope with staffing levels over the Christmas period without paying 3-4 times basic pay.

Yes... Primarily by not operating and thus having a zero (or virtually zero) staffing level...

 

[Haywain]

The higher up you go, the less true it is. Last season a long journey on Boxing Day was one of the downsides of being in the Premiership.

This season, at least you are not playing Sunderland.

Only 11 years ago Luton were in the Conference and played Barnet on Boxing Day.

So, the greater the number of prospective travelling fans, the more difficult the travelling? Sort of disproves your comments about shorter journeys.

 

[yorkie]

Why should we come to work on Boxing Day and get abused, spoken to like trash and then have to deal with the inevitable disruption etc? Then there will be football matches which we have to deal with fallout from that with limited support.

Then there’s the shoppers off to the sales and not to mention the coffin size bags that people have been travelling with this Christmas - any attempt to manage bags is met with abuse.

Absolute hell on earth.

Where I’m from there’s no meaningful NHS, GP or chemist service so don’t see why the trains should be singled out for lack of service.

I’ll never work one.

Is it really that bad on TOCs such as Chiltern? Is this through personal experience? or is this just a guess?

 

[NewarkRed]

Still not able to explain how the Government is preventing Lumo from operating today then.

You really think someone in Lumo HQ could come to work and say “I know let’s run trains today”?

And I’m the one on the drugs!

 

[Haywain]

You really think someone in Lumo HQ could come to work and say “I know let’s run trains today”?

And I’m the one on the drugs!

So, exactly what is it that is stopping them if it's as easy as you think to just use different stations?

 

[Magdalia]

So, the greater the number of prospective travelling fans, the more difficult the travelling? Sort of disproves your comments about shorter journeys.

Length of journey is not the only factor. The policing and security costs are significant too, which is why Luton are not playing Watford today.

 

[NewarkRed]

So, exactly what is it that is stopping them if it's as easy as you think to just use different stations?

As I’ve mentioned up the thread they just can’t just show up and run a service like Uber
Your man with the letters and numbers in their name thinks not so I’m offering alternatives…

 

[kez19]

First year for Dundee services,Edinburgh Queen street Dunblanes maybe three years,Perth started last year.

Are these services today for Dundee a testing ground to see if they may expand in the future?

Example add Glasgow next year or Aberdeen?

 

[Haywain]

Length of journey is not the only factor. The policing and security costs are significant too, which is why Luton are not playing Watford today.

If travelling was considered a factor there are plenty of London clubs.

 

[LAX54]

How long in advance would the engineering programme for Boxing Day (incidents like Clandon excepted) be available to operators and when would the operators have to announce their timetables? I can just see the fun if they have to arrange RRBs if, say, the ECML at Werrington Junction was to be closed.

Isnt major engineering etc planned about 3 years out ?
I recall working in a box on the 26th, with trains (on the SR) used to watch them run by the box, Driver one end, Guard the other, and 4 empty coaches between them !
You will also find that a majority of NR staff work over Christmas, its just another day (with a bit more money!)
working as a Signaller from 1972 to 2023, I can count on about one hand how many Christmases I had off !

 

[Class 317]

We looked at a fairly comprehensive England and Wales service pattern for Boxing Day many years ago when I worked with ATOC - allowing for known route blocks and providing for eample one route to London - Birmingham and so on. Obviously demand as well as operational elements were considered - and over a shortened working day. There was very good input from the TOC's.

So , allowing for extra staffing costs etc - it pretty much was the right side of a business case.

Of course , the DfT refused any consideration and got quite cross that we had done this pro bono public excercise. Never considered again.

I'd be interested in knowing if they published a report and if this is accessible online somewhere?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I'd be interested in knowing if they published a report and if this is accessible online somewhere?

No - it was an internal piece of work , discussed in meetings only - and of course filed away.

 

[camflyer]

Do you work in such an industry?

Not currently but I have done in the past.

 

[AverageJoe]

If I were to work Boxing Day then I’d definitely want an enhanced rate.

A major part of being a train driver is arriving fit for work, which means suitable sleep and not in the slightest under the effect of alcohol.

So for a lot of drivers who have to be in work early that would mean getting an early night on Xmas day and no alcohol.

Ours is one of the few jobs where the day before is greatly impacted, especially if you are on an early shift.

Just asked my friend who is a copper and they get double pay.

So there definitely won’t be many jobs that aren’t very well compensated for turning up for work on Boxing Day.

And those that aren’t in safety critical roles can probably just rock up half asleep and with a hangover with no question being asked, so at least the Christmas Day wasn’t interrupted

 

[Class 317]

No - it was an internal piece of work , discussed in meetings only - and of course filed away.

That's a shame, would have been an interesting read.

 

[slowroad]

Why ?

Because rail receives a massive subsidy, largely paid by people who use trains rarely or never, on the basis that it is an essential public service.

 

[Magdalia]

If travelling was considered a factor there are plenty of London clubs.

In the Championship only Millwall and QPR, and today neither is at home.

 

[js517]

If I were to work Boxing Day then I’d definitely want an enhanced rate.

A major part of being a train driver is arriving fit for work, which means suitable sleep and not in the slightest under the effect of alcohol.

So for a lot of drivers who have to be in work early that would mean getting an early night on Xmas day and no alcohol.

Ours is one of the few jobs where the day before is greatly impacted, especially if you are on an early shift.

Just asked my friend who is a copper and they get double pay.

So there definitely won’t be many jobs that aren’t very well compensated for turning up for work on Boxing Day.

And those that aren’t in safety critical roles can probably just rock up half asleep and with a hangover with no question being asked, so at least the Christmas Day wasn’t interrupted

Since the railway seems to love variable pricing, quotas and auctions, perhaps they should use this for staffing boxing day. Just keep upping the pay until sufficient staff are willing to work on the boxing day. Even better, tie it directly to a reverse auction of extra expensive advance tickets so people can put their money where their mouth is if they really want to travel.

 

[Magdalia]

No - it was an internal piece of work , discussed in meetings only - and of course filed away.

This is the sort of document that, in BR days, might have ended up in the National Archives, and available to the public after 30 years.

There is a lot of valuable archive material from the privatisation era that will never see the light of day.

 

[AverageJoe]

Since the railway seems to love variable pricing, quotas and auctions, perhaps they should use this for staffing boxing day. Just keep upping the pay until sufficient staff are willing to work on the boxing day. Even better, tie it directly to a reverse auction of extra expensive advance tickets so people can put their money where there mouth is if they really want to travel.

Plenty of suggestions of what could happen or what should happen appear on these forums but it’s a pointless conversation.

I’m frontline staff and there is nothing I can do about it or likely anyone else on this forum.

It’s is what it is until the bosses decide differently.

 

[js517]

Plenty of suggestions of what could happen or what should happen appear on these forums but it’s a pointless conversation.

I’m frontline staff and there is nothing I can do about it or likely anyone else on this forum.

It’s is what it is until the bosses decide differently.

Perhaps we shut the forum down if we're not allowed engage in pointless conversation.

Most conversation is pointless.