Trail hunting hopefully to be banned

[alex397]

One vile British tradition I cannot stand is fox hunting. It has become “illegal” with the use of “trial hunting” instead but this has clearly been used as a loophole for people to torture foxes to death.
It is good to see Labour committing to stopping this barbaric act.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1mrj3r30nno

The government has committed to a trail hunting ban as hunts gather across the UK for traditional Boxing Day meets.

Trail hunting - a practice where a scent is laid out for the hunt to follow - was introduced as a "cruelty free" replacement for fox hunting, banned by Labour in 2004.
Animal rights campaigners have urged the government to deliver on its manifesto promise to ban trail hunting.
The Countryside Alliance, which represents hunters, has criticised the decision, and said it would be "extraordinary" for Labour to focus on the ban given the poor state of its relations with rural communities.
Hunting with hounds has been a tradition in parts of the UK for centuries, but the 2004 Hunting Act placed restrictions on the practice.
The act banned the use of dogs to hunt wild mammals - including foxes, hares, deer and mink - across England and Wales.
Traditional hunts have now been replaced with trail hunting, which involves laying a trail using a rag soaked in animal scent.
It mimics the scent of a wild animal, so the hounds chase that instead of a fox, for example. The intention is to replicate the pursuit across the countryside, without the need to kill animals.
The government's Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) told the PA news agency: "This government was elected on a mandate to introduce the most ambitious animal welfare plans in a generation and that is exactly what we will do".
"We are committed to a ban on trail hunting, which is being exploited as a smokescreen to cruelly kill foxes and hares", a Defra spokesperson added.
Since the beginning of August, there were 186 reports of foxes pursued by hunts and 220 relating to suspected illegal hunting incidents, according to the League Against Cruel Sports.
The organisation's head has called for the government to strengthen existing legislation to avoid "loopholes", including by introducing custodial sentences to those hunting wild animals with dogs.
Further changes to the law have been criticised as "completely unjustified", with the Countryside Alliance saying trail hunting is a legal activity that brings rural communities together.
The alliance's chief executive, Tim Bonner, said the ban would be an "act of spite" that would be negatively received by the countryside.
He said there were 12,000 hunting days each year that are legal and legitimate.
The issue of trail hunting is "irrelevant" to most people, Mr Bonner added, and it would be "extraordinary" for Labour to focus on given the poor state of its relationship with rural communities.
Constituents living in rural communities have been critical of some changes proposed by the new Labour government.
Farmers protested against changes to inheritance tax announced in the Autumn Budget in November, taking to the streets of central London to voice their concerns.
The changes mean that from April 2026, inherited agricultural assets worth more than £1 million, which were previously exempt, will be liable to the tax at 20%.
The National Farmers' Union said the Budget was "disastrous" and its plans would "snatch away the next generation's ability to carry on producing British food" and see farmers forced to sell land to pay the tax.
It also urged the government to consult farmers on the changes to make the policies "less bad".
Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said the "vast majority" of farmers would not be affected by the tax changes.

 

[deltic]

Perhaps we should allow fox hunting in urban areas as that is where all the foxes seem to be now!

 

[alex397]

Perhaps we should allow fox hunting in urban areas as that is where all the foxes seem to be now!

Do they bother you?

 

[deltic]

Do they bother you?

Yes - they regularly wake us up at night, there are now huge numbers living in central London. My comment was however in jest.

 

[Egg Centric]

I like the way Oscar Wilde put it - the unspeakable in pursuit of the indedible.

OTOH foxes absolutely need killing so I can't say I'm too bothered about it remaining legalish - I don't really know whether it's better to be pursued by hounds with all the associated fear and torn apart at the end of it or get shot and take my chances between an instant death and the shot part missing and bleeding to death over the course of a few hours in immense pain. They both seem pretty terrible to me.

 

[alex397]

Yes - they regularly wake us up at night, there are now huge numbers living in central London. My comment was however in jest.

Good to hear of a native British species doing well.

I like the way Oscar Wilde put it - unspeakable in pursuit of the indedible.

OTOH foxes absolutely need killing so I can't say I'm too bothered about it remaining legalish - I don't really know whether it's better to be pursued by hounds with all the associated fear and torn apart at the end of it or get shot and take my chances between an instant death and the shot part missing and bleeding to death over the course of a few hours in immense pain. They both seem pretty terrible to me.

I don’t think a native species needs killing. We need to learn to live with them rather than destroying them.

That’s my opinion though. If there is a need for a cull, there is a far more humane way than getting a pack of dogs to frighten them and then tear them apart, leading to an agonising death. It is barbaric and illegal.

 

[Egg Centric]

I don’t think a native species needs killing. We need to learn to live with them rather than destroying them.

That’s my opinion though. If there is a need for a cull, there is a far more humane way than getting a pack of dogs to frighten them and then tear it to shreads where it then has an agonising death, which groups of people cheer and celebrate. It is barbaric. And illegal.

I don't agree that they don't need killing and them being a native species doesn't really have much to do with it - not because I know much about it (I'm not a farmer) but it seems to be a pretty widely held view and I assume they're not wanting them killed out of bloodlust.

What more humane way do you suggest? AFAIK it's basically hound hunting or shooting and the latter is fine if it works but if they miss is not so fine. I agree that celebrating the death of a fox is a bit odd although I did celebrate killing a mouse the other day in my baby's room (and while I managed it with normal mouse traps I would absolutely have been prepared to use glue traps if necessary, another recently banned thing).

 

[rapmastaj]

I disagree that they need killing. We're in one of the most nature-deprived countries in the world, yet still, any creature that remotely impinges on some human activity is labelled vermin and apparently needs to be controlled. The upper class yobs who enjoy killing grouse arent satisfied with turning the moors into a burnt wasteland, they also kill 26,000 mountain hares a year due to unevidenced prejudice that they might spread disease to the grouse, and their illegal persecution has brought the hen harrier close to extinction in England. It's about time we had some respect for nature.

 

[Trackman]

Yes - they regularly wake us up at night, there are now huge numbers living in central London. My comment was however in jest.

Let me guess - Mating calls. It's a sound I cannot describe, but it will keep you awake if you are not used to it. Going to try and describe: A pig, a newborn baby, a large bird - all screaming at once.

 

[alex397]

I don't agree that they don't need killing and them being a native species doesn't really have much to do with it - not because I know much about it (I'm not a farmer) but it seems to be a pretty widely held view and I assume they're not wanting them killed out of bloodlust.

Why do you think they need killing? Is there evidence that it is a widely held view?

I can’t find a non-biased source, but a poll by Find Out Now, commission by the League Against Cruel Sports found that out of 5,379 adults polled earlier in 2024, 76% were in favour of strengthening the Hunting Act.


https://www.league.org.uk/news-and-...w-is-a-vote-winner-in-key-battleground-areas/

NEW FIGURES SAY STRENGTHENING FOX HUNTING LAW IS A VOTE WINNER IN KEY BATTLEGROUND AREAS​

Posted 30th May 2024
New polling data released today shows that, despite being banned nearly 20 years ago, voters want hunting laws strengthened by the next government and will cast their votes to prove it.
The polling was commissioned by national animal welfare charity the League Against Cruel Sports but carried out independently by FindOutNow with further analysis by Electoral Calculus in March and April this year.
It shows nearly eight out of 10 (76 percent) voters polled in favour of strengthening the Hunting Act.
The League says the law has too many loopholes and exemptions that allow hunters to circumvent it, and also wants to see so-called trail hunting, described as a “smokescreen” for old fashioned illegal hunting, banned.
It also shows the impact it could make in key seats during the general election:

• Across Blue Wall seats, which are especially vulnerable to loss by the Conservatives, support for strengthening the ban is 73 percent, with 52 percent more likely to vote for a pro-strengthening candidate. Only seven percent of respondents did not support strengthening the ban
• Across the top 50 Labour target seats, support for strengthening the ban is 75 percent, while six percent disagree. 56 percent would be more likely to vote for a candidate who supports strengthening, while six percent would be less likely.
• Across the top 50 Conservative target seats, support for strengthening the ban is 75 percent, while six percent disagree. 56 percent would be more likely to vote for a candidate who supports strengthening, while five percent would be less likely.
• Across the top 50 Liberal Democrat target seats, support for strengthening the ban is 73 percent, while seven percent disagree. 53 percent would be more likely to vote for a candidate who supports strengthening, while eight percent would be less likely.

Data also shows support for strengthening across respondents planning to vote for all three major parties, with 85 per cent of Labour voters, 67 percent of Conservative voters, and 78 per cent of Liberal Democrat voters answering positively.
Emma Judd, head of campaigns at the League, said: “Hunting has been a key area of debate in every general election since the ban was introduced, and in 2019 all political parties finally acknowledged its importance to voters.
“These figures show that in areas where seats can be won or lost on single issues a commitment to strengthening hunting laws – or otherwise – can and will make a difference.
“The League has been saying for years now that it’s time for change – this polling confirms that voters of all colours agree with us.”
The polling also shows there is very strong support in rural areas, with 70 percent of voters polled supporting a stronger ban. In fact, 52 percent of rural voters go so far as to say they would be more likely to vote for an election candidate who supports strengthening the law while only 10 percent would be less likely to do so.
Emma added: “The so-called rural-urban divide has been used by pro-hunters as an attempt to stoke a culture war and attempt to lobby parties not to neglect the countryside. However, what these figures definitively show is that there is no divide – and moreover committing to strengthening the law to properly end hunting is a vote winner in rural regions.”
Ends
Notes to editors
Find Out Now interviewed 5,379 GB adults online from 26 March-2 April 2024. Data were weighted to be demographically representative of all GB adults by gender, age, social grade, other demographics and past voting patterns.
Find Out Now and Electoral Calculus are both members of the British Polling Council and abide by its rules.
The top target seats are those where the party requires the smallest swing to gain the seat, and are drawn from the list and analysis produced by Professor Colin Rallings and Professor Michael Thrasher of the University of Plymouth, on behalf of the PA news agency, the BBC, ITN and Sky News.
Blue Wall seats are defined using the list developed by Steve Akehurst., former Head of Public Affairs at Shelter, and previously used for battleground polling by More in Common. The list defines blue wall seats as Conservative held seats held since at least 2010 where the Conservatives under-performed the national swing in both 2017 and 2019 general elections against Labour and/or the Lib Dems, calculated using notional results for 2010/2015/2017/2019 election results.
A full breakdown of the data is available here: https://electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/DataTables_LACS_Jun2024.xlsx
Trail hunting was recently described by Chief Superintendent Matt Longman, the most senior police officer in England with responsibility for fox hunting crime, as a “smokescreen for illegal fox hunting”. He also described illegal hunting as “prolific”.
Trail hunting was banned in Scotland in 2023 when the Scottish Parliament strengthened its own fox hunting laws.
The campaign to strengthen the Hunting Act 2004 and ban trail hunting is backed by the Time for Change Coalition Against Huntingrepresenting 34 animal welfare and environmental organisations.
For more information or interview requests please contact the League Against Cruel Sports press office on 01483 524250 or email [email protected]
The League Against Cruel Sports is Britain's leading charity that works to stop animals being persecuted, abused and killed for sport. The League was instrumental in helping bring about the landmark Hunting Act 2004, the Animal Welfare (Sentencing) Act 2021, the strengthened fox hunting laws of the Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Act 2023 and a ban on the use of snares created by the Agriculture (Wales) Act 2023.
We carry out investigations to expose law-breaking and cruelty to animals and campaign for stronger animal protection laws and penalties. We work to change attitudes and behaviour through education and manage wildlife reserves. Find out more about our work at www.league.org.uk. Registered charity in England and Wales (no.1095234) and Scotland (no.SC045533).

What more humane way do you suggest? AFAIK it's basically hound hunting or shooting and the latter is fine if it works but if they miss is not so fine. I agree that celebrating the death of a fox is a bit odd although I did celebrate killing a mouse the other day in my baby's room (and while I managed it with normal mouse traps I would absolutely have been prepared to use glue traps if necessary, another recently banned thing).

I’m not an expert on killing animals, so I’m not sure myself. But anything that avoids chasing an animal so it spends its last minutes of life in a state of panic and then is torn to pieces while it’s still alive. I really don’t think they should be killed at all though.

 

[Egg Centric]

Why do you think they need killing? Is there evidence that it is a widely held view?

I can’t find a non-biased source, but a poll by Find Out Now, commission by the League Against Cruel Sports found that out of 5,379 adults polled earlier in 2024, 76% were in favour of strengthening the Hunting Act.

I don't know why (presumably they keep killing chickens etc) but it fits in with what I hear from farmers. I don't have any evidence as it's not something I care about enough to research, but it does seem that the closer you get to foxes the more you want to kill them, and I assume that's for a reason! They've never done me any harm fwiw...

A poll of people unconnected to farming is valueless unless it comes with associated education. Another example of this would be badger culling. I again know very little about this but the farmers really do seem to want the badgers dead whereas the anti-cullers seem to be e.g. Brian May (an excellent chap but with no expertise in this area) so I'm instinctively on the side of the farmers.

I’m not an expert on killing animals, so I’m not sure myself. But anything that avoids chasing an animal so it spends its last minutes of life in a state of panic and then is torn to pieces while it’s still alive. I really don’t think they should be killed at all though.

I'm not an expert (or even an enthusiastic amateur ) on killing animals either but it's not obvious to me that any better practicable method exists. I'm not saying it doesn't, but shooting seems fine if you hit but bad if you miss, and trapping and poisoning sound awful.

 

[Thornaby 37]

Perhaps we should allow fox hunting in urban areas as that is where all the foxes seem to be now!

Any particular reason ?
If you walk past a fox on the streets of central London, provided you leave it alone, it will leave you alone

 

[alex397]

I don't know why (presumably they keep killing chickens etc) but it fits in with what I hear from farmers. I don't have any evidence as it's not something I care about enough to research, but it does seem that the closer you get to foxes the more you want to kill them, and I assume that's for a reason! They've never done me any harm fwiw...

I have foxes in my garden, and last year I had fox cubs running about. I haven’t wanted to kill them yet.
I can understand the frustration from farmers, but presumably not all farmers have the same opinion.
Maybe before having an opinion on it, it is worth doing some research?

A poll of people unconnected to farming is valueless unless it comes with associated education. Another example of this would be badger culling. I again know very little about this but the farmers really do seem to want the badgers dead whereas the anti-cullers seem to be e.g. Brian May (an excellent chap but with no expertise in this area) so I'm instinctively on the side of the farmers.

Again, it is perhaps worth doing some research about badger culling before forming an opinion.

I'm not an expert (or even an enthusiastic amateur ) on killing animals either but it's not obvious to me that any better practicable method exists. I'm not saying it doesn't, but shooting seems fine if you hit but bad if you miss, and trapping and poisoning sound awful.

I find the idea horrific, but shooting sounds more practical than having horses, a pack of dogs and a group of people running about, often destroying private property an endangering the horses and dogs in the process.

 

[Lloyds siding]

As someone who used to be involved in pest control...yes we do need to control some animals, plants, fungi, bacteria etc.

We humans have taken over the world, we have built our cities, towns etc on land once open to all. We have tamed much of the countryside to our 'needs'.

The result is lots of things we believe are in the wrong place, and interfering in our lives. It can be dandelions in your lawn, salmonella wanting to digest your piece of chicken, foxes trying to get at the chicken coop, grain weevils in our silos, cockroaches running round the kitchen of your local take-away, Japanese knotweed breaking through the foundations of your house.

I wasn't heavily involved in killing things (compared to my colleagues), my role was more on strategy and prevention, but undoubtedly killed hundreds of thousands of cockroaches.

I devised a way of treating them: because we had big problems in certain sorts of houses. New insecticides, removing harbourage, treating several adjacent houses at once, reducing dampness together resulted in far fewer infestations...to the extent that the jobs of several of my colleagues were done away with because there was less call for them.

The famous black rat is considered to be a 'naturalised' species, because it's only been in Britain two thousand years, so officially not 'native'. However it is now probably extinct, thanks to the RSPB, because the populations we had left were in the 'wrong' place.

 

[Egg Centric]

Maybe before having an opinion on it, it is worth doing some research?

If I were proposing government policy or whatever then I would 100% agree that I should do my research, but for giving my tuppenth worth in a thread on a railway forum, probably not - I assume though that:

1. The farmer types (+ defra or whoever in the case of badgers) have done their research
2. The members of the public who are hugely against it in e.g. league against cruel sports surveys probably haven't

So heuristically I tend to support the farmer types. If convincing arguments are given in this thread then I may change my mind - as I said I have no great desire to personally go killing foxes and I have no sympathy for fox hunting types. I just take the view that I can't be an expert on everything and I've not really seen any anti fox culling argument that isn't basiclally an emotive one.

 

[12LDA28C]

If I were proposing government policy or whatever then I would 100% agree that I should do my research, but for giving my tuppenth worth in a thread on a railway forum, probably not - I assume though that:

1. The farmer types (+ defra or whoever in the case of badgers) have done their research
2. The members of the public who are hugely against it in e.g. league against cruel sports surveys probably haven't

So heuristically I tend to support the farmer types. If convincing arguments are given in this thread then I may change my mind - as I said I have no great desire to personally go killing foxes and I have no sympathy for fox hunting types. I just take the view that I can't be an expert on everything and I've not really seen any anti fox culling argument that isn't basiclally an emotive one.

So farmers want to kill foxes because they get into their chicken enclosures and eat the birds - what a big surprise. Assuming you're not a farmer and live in an urban area, it's perfectly possible to co-exist with foxes who will do you no harm, so why exactly do you believe foxes need killing, in this environment?

It's human beings expanding 'their' territory onto land previously inhabited only by wildlife so perhaps it's humans that 'need culling'?

 

[Egg Centric]

So farmers want to kill foxes because they get into their chicken enclosures and eat the birds - what a big surprise. Assuming you're not a farmer and live in an urban area, it's perfectly possible to co-exist with foxes who will do you no harm, so why exactly do you believe foxes need killing, in this environment?

It's human beings expanding 'their' territory onto land previously inhabited only by wildlife so perhaps it's humans that 'need culling'?

As it happens I don't live in an urban area - a rural village instead - but fox hunting doesn't take place in urban areas either, so I don't understand the meaning of this post as I've never said they need killing in urban areas (or actually that they definitely need killing in rural areas other than I tend to assume that the farmers know what they're talking about). Presumably those in the urban areas want to eat chicken or eggs so they still benefit from the rural fox killing though.

As for the thing about humans needing culling, unfortunately for other species we have the upper hand (at least until AI boots us out!) - no one proposing this on a rail enthusiasm forum can actually be serious since a hunter gatherer lifestyle is incompatible with class 37s...

 

[Yew]

That’s my opinion though. If there is a need for a cull, there is a far more humane way than getting a pack of dogs to frighten them and then tear them apart, leading to an agonising death. It is barbaric and illegal.

I agree, however it is important to remember that Trail Hunting involves no animals being hunted.

If it is being used as cover for fox-hunting, then proper investigations should be brought about, and prosecutions bought forward - rather than introducing lazy legislation to score political soundbites.

It's human beings expanding 'their' territory onto land previously inhabited only by wildlife so perhaps it's humans that 'need culling'?

I take it you'll be first to volunteer?

 

[BingMan]

I don’t think a native species needs killing. We need to learn to live with them rather than destroying them.

I wish our local foxes would learn to live with my hens

I disagree that they need killing. We're in one of the most nature-deprived countries in the world, yet still, any creature that remotely impinges on some human activity is labelled vermin and apparently needs to be controlled. The upper class yobs who enjoy killing grouse arent satisfied with turning the moors into a burnt wasteland, they also kill 26,000 mountain hares a year due to unevidenced prejudice that they might spread disease to the grouse, and their illegal persecution has brought the hen harrier close to extinction in England. It's about time we had some respect for nature.

Do you feel the same way about rats and wasps?

 

[olddriver]

(I would absolutely have been prepared to use glue traps if necessary, another recently banned thing).

Please, please, please never use a glue trap. They are horrifically cruel and a terrifying and agonising way to go for whichever poor creature gets stuck in them.

 

[Falcon1200]

I agree, however it is important to remember that Trail Hunting involves no animals being hunted.

If it is being used as cover for fox-hunting, then proper investigations should be brought about, and prosecutions bought forward - rather than introducing lazy legislation to score political soundbites.

Agree. A worthwhile statistic would surely be how often, and what percentage of, trail hunts become an animal killing, and are such events entirely accidental or is there a deliberate element involved? I have no interest in, or knowledge of, hunting of any kind, but facts (rather than possible class prejudice in some parts?) are required before making a judgement.

 

[rapmastaj]

I wish our local foxes would learn to live with my hens

My mum keeps hens, and yes, foxes have had their way with them a few times over the years. But is she out there with her hounds and shotgun? No! The proportionate way is to improve the fencing, plus she's installed an automatic henhouse door that shuts at dusk even if she's not able to be home at the right time.

Do you feel the same way about rats and wasps?

Yes I do They're part of the ecosystem just like everything else. Wasps are great pollinators in fact. Though rats aren't actually native species here so it's not quite the same.

My beef is less with the method of foxhunting than with the attitude that nature is here for us to exploit, and we have the right to kill as many creatures as necessary if we believe (very often erroneously) that they are having some marginal impact on our ability to reach a particular goal to the fullest extent.

Traditionally, exploiting the land has often been seen as our Christian duty, with 'wasteland' (where nature runs free) representing moral decline and laziness. This attitude has led to the drastic biodiversity crisis we now face. At some point we'll have to realise that we are part of nature, and cannot exist outside or without it. Especially in terms of food production!

Obviously I'm not saying we must never harm another being. Death is part of life. I understand perfectly well that having rats running around your house can soon become a health hazard. But have respect for ecology and the world we inhabit.

 

[Bevan Price]

Personally, I think that anyone who enjoys seeing foxes ripped apart by dogs must be a bit "sick" or "warped".

The trouble with trail hunting is that a "silly" fringe make no attempt to stop - or actively encourage - their dogs to chase any foxes that "they just happen to encounter". That spoils things for everybody, and a change in the law seems the best way to stop that type of cruelty.

 

[Egg Centric]

Please, please, please never use a glue trap. They are horrifically cruel and a terrifying and agonising way to go for whichever poor creature gets stuck in them.

I hope I never need to but if it's mice suffering until I find them to whack with a hammer or the risk of my daughter being bitten there's only one choice. Happily I haven't needed to use it so far and I hope I don't need to.

Agree. A worthwhile statistic would surely be how often, and what percentage of, trail hunts become an animal killing, and are such events entirely accidental or is there a deliberate element involved? I have no interest in, or knowledge of, hunting of any kind, but facts (rather than possible class prejudice in some parts?) are required before making a judgement.

I can't prove it but I'm pretty sure from my discussions it's 90%+ used as a loophole for plausible deniability tbh. Hence the logic in banning it.

At the very least I think everyone sane can agree they need a rehoming scheme for hounds. I think they're mostly shot at a few years old, and this won't be different whether they're trail or not. Not sure why the animal welfare lot don't talk about that instead - dogs get a lot more sympathy from the public than foxes. Greyhounds have one so can't see why hounds can't.

 

[12LDA28C]

I hope I never need to but if it's mice suffering until I find them to whack with a hammer or the risk of my daughter being bitten there's only one choice. Happily I haven't needed to use it so far and I hope I don't need to.

What? You'd whack a mouse with a hammer? Why on earth would you do that? Mice don't go round randomly biting humans.

 

[Lloyds siding]

I hope I never need to but if it's mice suffering until I find them to whack with a hammer or the risk of my daughter being bitten there's only one choice. Happily I haven't needed to use it so far and I hope I don't need to.



I can't prove it but I'm pretty sure from my discussions it's 90%+ used as a loophole for plausible deniability tbh. Hence the logic in banning it.

At the very least I think everyone sane can agree they need a rehoming scheme for hounds. I think they're mostly shot at a few years old, and this won't be different whether they're trail or not. Not sure why the animal welfare lot don't talk about that instead - dogs get a lot more sympathy from the public than foxes. Greyhounds have one so can't see why hounds can't.

Just so folk are aware. It's now illegal to use glue traps to catch rodents....unless you are a professional pest controller, with the specific licence to use them. Law came into force July 2024 [Glue Traps (Offences) Act 2022].

 

[Egg Centric]

What? You'd whack a mouse with a hammer? Why on earth would you do that? Mice don't go round randomly biting humans.

To kill it, if caught with a glue trap (there's no point in releasing it, if you do it near your home it'll be back within minutes, whereas it'll be eaten within hours if you release it at a significant distance).

Again happily a hypothetical at this point - it was easily dispatched with a normal trap.

 

[mikeg]

Good. I’m usually against bans but the animal welfare concerns here are overriding. If foxes need killing why not just shoot them rather than have a bunch of hooray Henries chase them and rip them asunder with baying hounds?

If some lumpen from another sort of estate inflicted a similar degree of cruelty for the purposes of entertainment, even upon vermin, I think we can all know what the public reaction would be. However when it’s the upper class it’s ‘country tradition’. There’s two tier justice right there.

 

[12LDA28C]

Again happily a hypothetical at this point - it was easily dispatched with a normal trap.

No need to kill it at all, that's the point. A mouse is not going to harm you.

 

[mikeg]

No need to kill it at all, that's the point. A mouse is not going to harm you.

As someone who works in the food retail industry, I'm sure plenty of people would disagree that a mouse is harmless. Sure the mouse is not going to directly harm you, but it could create hygiene problems, though much less so than a rat would.