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How are you all coping with the £3 cap?

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studio_two

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I discovered that Stagecoach has been charging me £3 for a £2.60 journey despite stating my destination. The drivers have a habit of issuing a ticket for the end of the line rather than the exact stop. This is probably a carryover practice from the £2 cap.

It raises another issue. How do they know where the passengers are travelling to for the purposes of data analysis?

Furthermore, will Stagecoach be subsidised for upselling a ticket of higher value than the one I asked for?
 
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Gloster

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Exactly. There's some very out of touch people who think many are both paying and able to afford £4 coffees. Many arent and they are people.reliant in buses. Reminds me of boomers stating if people stopped Netflix they'd afford a house and such silliness.

That was Kirstie Allsopp, sorry, the Honourable Kirstie Allsopp, daughter of the Sixth Baron Hindlip, but she is at least seven years too young to be a boomer. But I know what you mean…
 

GusB

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So many people on this thread have never had to make every penny work, or had £1 be the difference between having lunch and going hungry… and it shows.
You're making an awful lot of assumptions here. How do you know that the various contributors to this thread have never had to scrimp and save?

The bus fare cap for working-age adults was £2. It is now £3, a 50% increase,
I think it's time for a bit of honesty. How did you travel before the fare cap was introduced? Did you actually travel by bus in the first place? If you did travel by bus, how much was your single fare before the initial £3 cap was introduced? Was paying for singles the most cost-effective way of travelling? How far do you expect to travel for £2?

You've made your feelings quite clear, but I think it's time that you used your own situation as an example; let the rest of us decide whether or not you have a valid complaint.

If you were a regular bus user before the cap was introduced and your regular fare has gone up because your local bus operator is pulling a fast one, I would certainly have some sympathy; if you weren't a regular bus user beforehand, welcome to our world!

and fares may well skyrocket when this cap expires.
Fares may well go up, having been kept artificially low by the cap. Bus companies do put fares up every now and again. Whether or not they could be considered to "skyrocket" is subjective. Anyhow, you've only said that fares "may well" skyrocket. I will ask you again to provide details of your own individual cirumstances and let us decide!

If someone chooses to treat themselves to a flat white or a bar of chocolate or a slightly nicer phone, that’s their own business. If the bus fare increase means they have to cut back on something nice, with no corresponding leap in the quality of the service… well, it’s the bus that’s going to look like bad value.
I'm awfully sorry to break it to you, but that's the way the world works! Rent, utilities and transport costs are the main expenses that most people will have to deal with; if there's a sudden increase in one of those expenses, sacrifices will have to be made elsewhere. You can either try to increase your income or cut back on your expenditure.
 

Meole

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There was a clear choice at the election regarding who would maintain the £2 fare for the 5 years.
 

GusB

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I discovered that Stagecoach has been charging me £3 for a £2.60 journey despite stating my destination. The drivers have a habit of issuing a ticket for the end of the line rather than the exact stop. This is probably a carryover practice from the £2 cap.

It raises another issue. How do they know where the passengers are travelling to for the purposes of data analysis?

Furthermore, will Stagecoach be subsidised for upselling a ticket of higher value than the one I asked for?
If you've been overcharged, you need to raise this with Stagecoach. If drivers are issuing tickets for a full end-to-end journey when a passenger isn't travelling the full distance, this also needs to be raised; this should apply whether or not it's a capped single fare or a concessionary journey.

There was a clear choice at the election regarding who would maintain the £2 fare for the 5 years.
Was there? Do please provide some evidence to back up your statement.
 

studio_two

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If you've been overcharged, you need to raise this with Stagecoach. If drivers are issuing tickets for a full end-to-end journey when a passenger isn't travelling the full distance, this also needs to be raised; this should apply whether or not it's a capped single fare or a concessionary journey.
Agreed.
 

Ghostbus

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Whilst there are some comments about encouraging bus use, mixed in with the other funding for BSIPs, it was predominantly about the cost of living crisis.
As conceived by Boris, it was maybe more ambiguous (and ambitious, hopeful):


It has been reported that Boris Johnson’s team have spent months working on a plan to subsidise fares on local bus services in England for six months.

....

Covid lockdowns and the strong “avoid public transport” message decimated bus use and passenger numbers remain significantly short of pre-Covid levels. Although emergency funding support continues to be provided, there has so far been no government-assisted bus marketing initiative to reverse the damage done during Covid. In contrast, the government lured rail users back with the ‘Great British Rail Sale’ earlier this year.

It is understood that the impetus behind the £2 bus fare cap is to offset the cost-of-living crisis, with energy bills set to soar in October.
It's hard to read that as helping with the cost of living, despite being there in black and white.

You're not going to be better off financially, switching from home working or car commuter/sharer, to the bus. It's ignored the existence of 7 day tickets that were cheaper than five capped returns. It's quite annoying trying to figure out best value. More stress.

But it is very well suited to a bus marketing initiative seeking to lure people back for the benefit of the bus industry. Single operator capped return fares were now cheaper than a day ticket, by varying amounts. A sale.

But of just one product. A trip to town, or the beach, or the hsopital. No changes. You could save hundreds of pounds! But check the small print. Probably no more than £250 over 6 months. Say three trips a week in a rural operator's area for the full six months. Incredibly unlikely that's you. Or anyone.

I think it was actually quite clever in masking the real motive for that. There was a need to end the "emergency funding support", so why not spend a little now, on a time limited catchy gimmick, to hopefully save a lot once people had returned to the buses for real. After all, that emergency was over, there was no reason for people not to be back on the buses, doing pre-Covid travel.

That doesn't play well. Scary even. It's the government trying to save money by pushing you back onto a bus maybe before you were ready. Better to cast it as them saving you money with their money in the crisis that has replaced the emergency. A temporary marketing initiative to get things back to normal.

Obviously it didn't work that way.
 

Via Bank

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I'm awfully sorry to break it to you, but that's the way the world works! Rent, utilities and transport costs are the main expenses that most people will have to deal with; if there's a sudden increase in one of those expenses, sacrifices will have to be made elsewhere. You can either try to increase your income or cut back on your expenditure.
But no-one enjoys paying for transport. Nobody stans commuting by bus. Maybe on this forum, but in the real world people don't think "oh wow, I can't wait to pay £12.20 for two returns from the station to my nan's house on a rattly plastic bus that'll get stuck in traffic doing a loop-the-loop on a potholed B-road." If our goal in this country for more people to see the bus as an attractive transport mode, pricing has to be cheap, simple, and predictable. Putting the headline cost up from £2 to £3 is directly contrary to this goal. Eliminating the cap entirely and returning to the previous Wild West of expensive and inscrutable fares would be a disaster.

It is missing the point to say "tough, people should just economise." People will find a way to travel the journeys they need to make (be that getting a lift, walking, or begrudgingly paying for the bus.) But discretionary travel will take a hit. If the cost of a return bus fare + cinema ticket + coffee afterwards sends you over your self-imposed entertainment budget this weekend… you're going to stay at home and watch YouTube. If you're a student coming home for Christmas and you're at the bottom end of your overdraft having spent your maintenance loan on rent and the train fare home… you're going to beg your parents to drive you home from the station.

And I simply don't see how fewer bus journeys is a win for the bus industry or for anyone, actually.
 

Falcon1200

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As my Scottish bus pass does not work in England, yesterday I made my first paying bus trip since the cap increase. The £2 fare is now £2.50, not unreasonable in the circumstances. Re overcharging, is it not necessary to state one's destination on Stagecoach? I use contactless, and therefore capping, on Oxford Bus Company services, but this does not apply on the city's Stagecoach routes.
 

GardenRail

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In the overall scheme of things, is an extra pound or two per day really too much to bear? In comparison say, with gas and electricity prices going through the roof in recent years? How did people cope before the £2 cap was introduced?
Well, £40 per 4 weeks, mon to fri. Nearly a full tank of fuel for my car....
 

richardderby

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£2 is AFFORDABLE, £3 or £6 return is not.. they should have increased the cap in 50p increments..
 

IanD

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There was a clear choice at the election regarding who would maintain the £2 fare for the 5 years.
There were a lot more other things to consider that probably outweighed that for many people. Also, Labour may have said the would raise the cap (I don't recall if they specifically said this or that they would review it) but definitely didn't say they would plump for the immediate 50% increase. Much like they could have been clearer (or even mentioned) the planned changes to the winter fuel allowances. And massive public sector pay settlements.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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As conceived by Boris, it was maybe more ambiguous (and ambitious, hopeful):



It's hard to read that as helping with the cost of living, despite being there in black and white.

You're not going to be better off financially, switching from home working or car commuter/sharer, to the bus. It's ignored the existence of 7 day tickets that were cheaper than five capped returns. It's quite annoying trying to figure out best value. More stress.

But it is very well suited to a bus marketing initiative seeking to lure people back for the benefit of the bus industry. Single operator capped return fares were now cheaper than a day ticket, by varying amounts. A sale.

But of just one product. A trip to town, or the beach, or the hsopital. No changes. You could save hundreds of pounds! But check the small print. Probably no more than £250 over 6 months. Say three trips a week in a rural operator's area for the full six months. Incredibly unlikely that's you. Or anyone.

I think it was actually quite clever in masking the real motive for that. There was a need to end the "emergency funding support", so why not spend a little now, on a time limited catchy gimmick, to hopefully save a lot once people had returned to the buses for real. After all, that emergency was over, there was no reason for people not to be back on the buses, doing pre-Covid travel.

That doesn't play well. Scary even. It's the government trying to save money by pushing you back onto a bus maybe before you were ready. Better to cast it as them saving you money with their money in the crisis that has replaced the emergency. A temporary marketing initiative to get things back to normal.

Obviously it didn't work that way.
That's from an article in a third party publication from mid 2022. My quotes came from the government's own website and related to the introduction and extension of the cap by Sunak in 2023.

I really do think that you're overthinking the motivations behind the bus fare cap. The CBSSG was ending but that was a subsidy to the operators during 2020-23 and was replaced (in part) by BSIP+ funding.

Rather, the fare cap was introduced to demonstrate that the government were "doing something" to tackle the cost of living crisis. That it could attract additional patronage or effect any sort of modal shift was a "nice to have" and played in with the BSIP funding etc. Remember that the government introduced the 5p/litre fuel duty cut - no-one is suggesting that the motivation behind that was to encourage people to drive more!

The fare cap was pure politics. In the post Truss wreckage with people being hammered on energy prices and mortgage repayments, this was a high profile gimmick to demonstrate that something was being done and not just for car drivers.

There were a lot more other things to consider that probably outweighed that for many people. Also, Labour may have said the would raise the cap (I don't recall if they specifically said this or that they would review it) but definitely didn't say they would plump for the immediate 50% increase. Much like they could have been clearer (or even mentioned) the planned changes to the winter fuel allowances. And massive public sector pay settlements.
Quite - we inhabit and post on this forum because we're knowledgeable and interested in public transport.

Public transport rates so lowly in the priorities of the electorate, and remember that quite a chunk of the voters are the grey vote who qualify for a free pass, it is frankly preposterous to suggest that who would retain the £2 fare was a significant factor in the election.

This survey from YouGov https://yougov.co.uk/politics/artic...what-are-the-most-important-issues-for-voters demonstrates it. NHS and economy are always at the forefront but in the post Truss era, Cost of Living was key and for most people, that's more around energy prices and mortgage repayments etc.
 
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stevieinselby

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There was a clear choice at the election regarding who would maintain the £2 fare for the 5 years.
There was a clear choice about who was promising to maintain the £2 fare.
But as we have repeatedly seen over the years, a Tory manifesto promise is worth less than nothing.
If they had won, the £2 fare would have been gone by August.
But as they knew there was no possible reality in which they could win, they were just promising anything and everything, safe in the knowledge that they wouldn't have to deliver on it, and they could use it to attack Labour for not living up to the standards that they allegedly would have done.
 

RT4038

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There was a clear choice about who was promising to maintain the £2 fare.
But as we have repeatedly seen over the years, a Tory manifesto promise is worth less than nothing.
If they had won, the £2 fare would have been gone by August.
But as they knew there was no possible reality in which they could win, they were just promising anything and everything, safe in the knowledge that they wouldn't have to deliver on it, and they could use it to attack Labour for not living up to the standards that they allegedly would have done.
All mere conjecture.

The last Conservative Government, under various leaders, got buses in the limelight in a positive way for the first time in 50 decades with 'Buses back better' and the £2 bus fare cap. I don't think the bus industry has ever had such political attention (aside from negatives).
 

Haywain

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Public transport rates so lowly in the priorities of the electorate, and remember that quite a chunk of the voters are the grey vote who qualify for a free pass, it is frankly preposterous to suggest that who would retain the £2 fare was a significant factor in the election.
It rates lowly because a very large part of the electorate are car owners/drivers who wouldn't dream of using public transport, especially buses, even if it were free of charge at all times. That's why fare levels would never have been a factor.
The last Conservative Government, under various leaders, got buses in the limelight in a positive way for the first time in 50 decades with 'Buses back better' and the £2 bus fare cap. I don't think the bus industry has ever had such political attention (aside from negatives).
And yet they completely failed to make a genuine long term commitment to the fare cap. Remember how close it came to the deadlines before it got renewed each time.
 

Ghostbus

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That's from an article in a third party publication from mid 2022. My quotes came from the government's own website and related to the introduction and extension of the cap by Sunak in 2023.

I really do think that you're overthinking the motivations behind the bus fare cap. The CBSSG was ending but that was a subsidy to the operators during 2020-23 and was replaced (in part) by BSIP+ funding.

Rather, the fare cap was introduced to demonstrate that the government were "doing something" to tackle the cost of living crisis. That it could attract additional patronage or effect any sort of modal shift was a "nice to have" and played in with the BSIP funding etc. Remember that the government introduced the 5p/litre fuel duty cut - no-one is suggesting that the motivation behind that was to encourage people to drive more!

The fare cap was pure politics. In the post Truss wreckage with people being hammered on energy prices and mortgage repayments, this was a high profile gimmick to demonstrate that something was being done and not just for car drivers.


Quite - we inhabit and post on this forum because we're knowledgeable and interested in public transport.

Public transport rates so lowly in the priorities of the electorate, and remember that quite a chunk of the voters are the grey vote who qualify for a free pass, it is frankly preposterous to suggest that who would retain the £2 fare was a significant factor in the election.

This survey from YouGov https://yougov.co.uk/politics/artic...what-are-the-most-important-issues-for-voters demonstrates it. NHS and economy are always at the forefront but in the post Truss era, Cost of Living was key and for most people, that's more around energy prices and mortgage repayments etc.
Perhaps. I just think there's not much evidence for that bar press releases.

If you look at how the cap works, if you consider Boris was a bus nut populist (and excelled at being seen as stupid while being quite clever), the fact Truss was a loon who was only going to help car drivers not bus users until someone told her that would be stupid, and Sunak was desperate to be seen as sympathetic to working people but had no new money due to Truss, and the actual costs of cost of living crisis in that period compared to the potential cap savings, and the fact government really does lie to the people and look out for itself first, the following narrative does deserve some consideration I think:

1. A temporary 6 month sale, a gimmick, Boris' last stand/parting gift, a catchy populist policy to further Borisism post-Boris, whose underlying truth was it had limited benefits, many downsides and stresses for real, existing bus users. The government was in all likelihood simply trying to spend a little to end massive emergency funding, because that emergency was over and there was no reason for people not to get back to normal. But that's a hard sell so better to say you're helping with household budgets and trying to boost buses with a marketing blitz.

2. A more permanent but still temporary sale, rolled over once it was realised people weren't going to go back to buses post-Covid that quickly. Certainly not without an eat out to help out style gimmick. And perhaps travel patterns had indeed shifted permanently in such a way as to threaten the viability of buses for good, as people worked from home or retired early. So it was increasingly important to incentivise those who might be the future market, the occasional and leisure traveller who can probably do without a bus, but love a freebie (which will hopefully be a sticky kind of promo, a modal shift).

3. Facing the reality of failure of the sale in the face, an increasingly permanent subsidy to help with the cost of living, with all the faults of the original sale. But handy PR for a government that had cratered people's household budgets with a deluded fool as PM (Truss) and now a PM in Sunak who doesn't even know how bank cards work. As long as people didn't look too closely at the details, and nobody really did, it was a cheap feel good policy that Labour couldn't really attack without seeming to be against the common people. And it's undeniable it helped some people really struggling. Emphasis on some.

4. A serious problem for Starmer, now PM. There's no money, and a black hole. The public are now addicted to this freebie, but his technocrats were telling even before the election (having had sight of the books and minutes) that as good old fashioned socialism, it is incredibly poor value for money. Some of the common people, let's call them struggling bus users not making the most simple occasional return trip to town, are eventually going to realise it. Especially if all the other fares/tickets eventually have to go up because ridership is not recovering. It's far better for Labour's ideological goals to end the cap and use BSIPs to subsidise multi-operator and multi-modal tickets, tying that to devolution. And tell Labour's spokespeople fielding media questions what single operator day tickets are.

5. It's been long enough now that people might see that shift as a Starmer Labour policy, not a continuation of the populist track begun by Boris (renationalisation for the provincial cities, a.k.a levelling up), or worse, Corbynism lite. But they've realised after further study that they don't even need to take the bad PR of ending the cap to save/redirect most of the money. Just raise it so it becomes pretty redundant for most people. And the main beneficiaries now being struggling rural bus users and the residents of Labour Mayoralties who found the money to soften that blow, certainly can't hurt.

6. It's New Year's Day 2025. Some people have just seen their bus fares jump by incredible amounts, ~20% in Mayoralties and 33% everywhere else. They really don't care about 1. to 4. But there was no better strategy for Starmer given 5., so let's hope that by doing this early in the Parliament, it's forgotten by the time Labour has to present its case to the people at the next general election. Hopefully buses will be back on their feet by then, because of 5.

7? Theres been no real recovery. Labour's Mayoralties seem to simply be presiding over managed decline of even city bus networks, and Starmer has bigger fish to fry than fixing rural services for good. Boris retakes the Tory Party and defeats Starmer, partly by reminding them it was he who pioneered BSIP, franchising, levelling up, and it is only his unique brand of mop haired can do energy, that can get the job done. Bus Back Better. Three. Word. Slogans.

8? Ah. Mr. Farage. We have been expecting you. The traitor Boris is in custody.

9? What's a bus?

10? Fighting continues as the People's Front of Corbyn battle Farage's Strormgruppen on the streets of Red Wall constituency. The government in exile gives ex-PM Starmer a Knighthood, and makes Louise Haigh a dame.
 

mangad

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10? Fighting continues as the People's Front of Corbyn battle Farage's Strormgruppen on the streets of Red Wall constituency. The government in exile gives ex-PM Starmer a Knighthood, and makes Louise Haigh a dame.
A brief interlude to say, he won't get a knighthood in the future, by the nature of him already having one.
 

RT4038

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It rates lowly because a very large part of the electorate are car owners/drivers who wouldn't dream of using public transport, especially buses, even if it were free of charge at all times. That's why fare levels would never have been a factor.
Welcome to the political realities of this country!

And yet they completely failed to make a genuine long term commitment to the fare cap. Remember how close it came to the deadlines before it got renewed each time.
And still you criticise it. No other Government, of whatever political persuasion, has ever got buses so high on the political agenda in a positive way. Please give some credit where credit is due. Perhaps they were not going to commit to a £2 fare cap because such a 'cap' is a very blunt instrument and not really suitable for the long term, but was easy to introduce quickly?

Perhaps. I just think there's not much evidence for that bar press releases.

If you look at how the cap works, if you consider Boris was a bus nut populist (and excelled at being seen as stupid while being quite clever), the fact Truss was a loon who was only going to help car drivers not bus users until someone told her that would be stupid, and Sunak was desperate to be seen as sympathetic to working people but had no new money due to Truss, and the actual costs of cost of living crisis in that period compared to the potential cap savings, and the fact government really does lie to the people and look out for itself first, the following narrative does deserve some consideration I think:

1. A temporary 6 month sale, a gimmick, Boris' last stand/parting gift, a catchy populist policy to further Borisism post-Boris, whose underlying truth was it had limited benefits, many downsides and stresses for real, existing bus users. The government was in all likelihood simply trying to spend a little to end massive emergency funding, because that emergency was over and there was no reason for people not to get back to normal. But that's a hard sell so better to say you're helping with household budgets and trying to boost buses with a marketing blitz.

2. A more permanent but still temporary sale, rolled over once it was realised people weren't going to go back to buses post-Covid that quickly. Certainly not without an eat out to help out style gimmick. And perhaps travel patterns had indeed shifted permanently in such a way as to threaten the viability of buses for good, as people worked from home or retired early. So it was increasingly important to incentivise those who might be the future market, the occasional and leisure traveller who can probably do without a bus, but love a freebie (which will hopefully be a sticky kind of promo, a modal shift).

3. Facing the reality of failure of the sale in the face, an increasingly permanent subsidy to help with the cost of living, with all the faults of the original sale. But handy PR for a government that had cratered people's household budgets with a deluded fool as PM (Truss) and now a PM in Sunak who doesn't even know how bank cards work. As long as people didn't look too closely at the details, and nobody really did, it was a cheap feel good policy that Labour couldn't really attack without seeming to be against the common people. And it's undeniable it helped some people really struggling. Emphasis on some.

4. A serious problem for Starmer, now PM. There's no money, and a black hole. The public are now addicted to this freebie, but his technocrats were telling even before the election (having had sight of the books and minutes) that as good old fashioned socialism, it is incredibly poor value for money. Some of the common people, let's call them struggling bus users not making the most simple occasional return trip to town, are eventually going to realise it. Especially if all the other fares/tickets eventually have to go up because ridership is not recovering. It's far better for Labour's ideological goals to end the cap and use BSIPs to subsidise multi-operator and multi-modal tickets, tying that to devolution. And tell Labour's spokespeople fielding media questions what single operator day tickets are.

5. It's been long enough now that people might see that shift as a Starmer Labour policy, not a continuation of the populist track begun by Boris (renationalisation for the provincial cities, a.k.a levelling up), or worse, Corbynism lite. But they've realised after further study that they don't even need to take the bad PR of ending the cap to save/redirect most of the money. Just raise it so it becomes pretty redundant for most people. And the main beneficiaries now being struggling rural bus users and the residents of Labour Mayoralties who found the money to soften that blow, certainly can't hurt.

6. It's New Year's Day 2025. Some people have just seen their bus fares jump by incredible amounts, ~20% in Mayoralties and 33% everywhere else. They really don't care about 1. to 4. But there was no better strategy for Starmer given 5., so let's hope that by doing this early in the Parliament, it's forgotten by the time Labour has to present its case to the people at the next general election. Hopefully buses will be back on their feet by then, because of 5.

7? Theres been no real recovery. Labour's Mayoralties seem to simply be presiding over managed decline of even city bus networks, and Starmer has bigger fish to fry than fixing rural services for good. Boris retakes the Tory Party and defeats Starmer, partly by reminding them it was he who pioneered BSIP, franchising, levelling up, and it is only his unique brand of mop haired can do energy, that can get the job done. Bus Back Better. Three. Word. Slogans.

8? Ah. Mr. Farage. We have been expecting you. The traitor Boris is in custody.

9? What's a bus?

10? Fighting continues as the People's Front of Corbyn battle Farage's Strormgruppen on the streets of Red Wall constituency. The government in exile gives ex-PM Starmer a Knighthood, and makes Louise Haigh a dame.
Have you just stumbled upon the political realities of buses? Where have you been the last 25+ years? There is no subterfuge. The majority of voters have cars, like their private transport, do not want to pay taxes for anything above a skeletal public transport system and have no intention of using public transport unless it is really necessary. In the case of buses, that is hardly ever, once they've got their driving licence. Slag off the politicians as much as you like, but they want to get re-elected and that means doing what the majority is happy with. Gradually let conventional bus services whither and die, encouraging 'do-it-yourself' transport, that does not openly consume disproportionate public funding.
 

studio_two

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28
£2 is AFFORDABLE, £3 or £6 return is not.. they should have increased the cap in 50p increments..
I think it would be better as time limited ticket too (at least within the app). A change of buses (say for a hospital visit) could cost double that.
 

Hyebone

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I discovered that Stagecoach has been charging me £3 for a £2.60
As far as I'm aware, drivers are required to set the fare stage. I'd recommend challenging the driver should they try this; it's not like they get paid any more for upselling tickets!

Something I've noticed from documents that I'm probably not to see is the interesting fare stages of some routes with Stagecoach in Chesterfield. My local route, a loop that takes around half an hour to complete (town centre - estate - town centre) charges a flat £2.70 no matter where you need to alight. UNLESS you want to stay on the bus round the estate and get off at a stop along the section of the route the bus already travelled to get to the estate!

Also for a couple of the South Yorkshire cross-boundary services, the price suddenly drops upon entering SY; some of these are even less than £2!

A slight error I've noticed on the X17 route is that from the Blue Stoops pub to Hunloke Avenue reaches the £3 cap (a distance of 1.3km) whereas the next few stops along cost £2.70! It looks like an error but I'm unsure. It makes no sense to be cheaper to travel further.
 

Tetragon213

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NX Bus WM has increased the single fare to £2.90, and iirc the new cap is at £4.80. Not exactly back-breaking for me, but I have friends and colleagues for whom this is really quite painful for. To me, an extra £2.40 per week (I only travel into office 3x per week) is barely noticeable, but I have been in the situation in the not-too-distant past where such a fare-rise would have been an unwelcome additional expense indeed.

For NX Bus WM to be charging any amount of money is absolutely galling, however, for the utter joke of a """""service""""" (repeated quotation marks very much intended) that they """""provide""""".
 

James H

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25 Jun 2014
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How much did NX Bus WM charge for the same journey before the national cap?
 

WM Bus

Member
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Messages
280
How much did NX Bus WM charge for the same journey before the national cap?
Max fare £2.40.
Apparently TFWM raised the uncapped max fare to £2.70 and then again to £2.90 while fares were capped at £2.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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18 Feb 2013
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Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
It rates lowly because a very large part of the electorate are car owners/drivers who wouldn't dream of using public transport, especially buses, even if it were free of charge at all times. That's why fare levels would never have been a factor.
Yes, and that's reality of politics. Certain issues will always dominate (e.g. health, economy) and others are based on specific circumstances (e.g. Brexit in 2019, Cost of Living in 2024).

As @RT4038 says, politicians are in the business of being elected. They generally need to appeal to the majority whilst not alienating the minority. Hence why (ahem) the fuel duty cut wasn't addressed, but they couldn't fully remove the bus fare cap.
Perhaps. I just think there's not much evidence for that bar press releases.

If you look at how the cap works, if you consider Boris was a bus nut populist (and excelled at being seen as stupid while being quite clever), the fact Truss was a loon who was only going to help car drivers not bus users until someone told her that would be stupid, and Sunak was desperate to be seen as sympathetic to working people but had no new money due to Truss, and the actual costs of cost of living crisis in that period compared to the potential cap savings, and the fact government really does lie to the people and look out for itself first, the following narrative does deserve some consideration I think
I'll ignore points 7-10 as I really didn't understand them.

Rather, I'll deal with 1-6 on a consolidated basis. The bus fare cap was brought in for political expediency. No one seriously thinks there was a Damascene conversion with Rishi and his team in favour of public transport? That it was continued, and to the point it was, was also politics. Couldn't scrap it ahead of an election, so extend it past the election and then you either deal with it or, more likely, you let Starmer have that problem.

However, we all knew that there was going to be financial choices to be made. The Inst for Fiscal Studies were saying this during the election. Reducing the benefit of the cap is a relatively simple move and, in a months' time, it will be forgotten by most as they won't be affected as a) they don't use buses or b) they are still getting a discounted fare or c) they have an ENCTS pass. IMHO, the cut to winter fuel allowances was a much more emotive issue.


Have you just stumbled upon the political realities of buses? Where have you been the last 25+ years? There is no subterfuge. The majority of voters have cars, like their private transport, do not want to pay taxes for anything above a skeletal public transport system and have no intention of using public transport unless it is really necessary. In the case of buses, that is hardly ever, once they've got their driving licence. Slag off the politicians as much as you like, but they want to get re-elected and that means doing what the majority is happy with. Gradually let conventional bus services whither and die, encouraging 'do-it-yourself' transport, that does not openly consume disproportionate public funding.
Indeed. It's amusing (in a black humour way) to see the situation in Greater Manchester. Now, I like Andy Burnham but he's a politician and he's played politics with buses and transport in general.

On one hand, we have the "taking back control" and wresting ownership of buses from the unscrupulous bus barons. That's red meat to those on the left. Andy has also been guilty of using statistics out of context so... the decline in bus usage being cited without any recourse to the impact of Metrolink on that. A bit like those on this forum saying 50% increase...(cos any increase from an artificially low rate would be massive, ignores the massive cuts that were introduced with the £2 fare and that many fares are still much, much lower than they were).

On the flip side, Andy doesn't want to upset motorists so the Clean Air Zone was due to be introduced in 2022, then went for consultation (long grass) and then the approach was that they'd invest in electric buses instead.

It's really not difficult to see the politics behind any government decisions (nor the behaviour of opposition parties).
 

Ediswan

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2012
Messages
3,275
Location
Stevenage
For a simple return journey within Stevenage, one Arriva bus each way, it depends where you look.

The Arriva app will sell me an adult single for £3, or a day ticket for £5.60
bustimes.org says an onboard adult single is £2.70 (£5.40 return) I realise this is not official
The Intalink app wil sell me a multi-operator adult day ticket for £5
 

WelshBluebird

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Joined
14 Jan 2010
Messages
5,260
Max fare £2.40.
Apparently TFWM raised the uncapped max fare to £2.70 and then again to £2.90 while fares were capped at £2.
So a 50p raise in 2 and a bit years whilst inflation has been high?
Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
 

geoffk

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
3,639
The majority of voters have cars, like their private transport, do not want to pay taxes for anything above a skeletal public transport system and have no intention of using public transport unless it is really necessary. In the case of buses, that is hardly ever, once they've got their driving licence. Slag off the politicians as much as you like, but they want to get re-elected and that means doing what the majority is happy with. Gradually let conventional bus services whither and die, encouraging 'do-it-yourself' transport, that does not openly consume disproportionate public funding.
Meanwhile, many voters and politicians in mainland Europe see things very differently.
 

Ghostbus

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331
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England
Have you just stumbled upon the political realities of buses? Where have you been the last 25+ years? There is no subterfuge.
Where have you been to have missed the groundswell of anger as Thatcher era bus policies, never exactly popular, have become a unifying source of voter discontent?

Boris clearly wanted pre-Covid ridership back or buses reshaped to post-Covid life. Not the masking of deep seated post-Covid structural issues in the all but dead Thatcher era bus policy where fare rises across the board would soon be inevitable due to there being no magic money tree to sustain emergency funding indefinitely.

It is the very fact buses are highly relevant in the marginal constituencies of the post Boris-quake times, that the subterfuge of pitching £2 as a cost of living measure to mask it's failure to achieve what Boris hoped it would, didn't remotely pay off for Truss/Sunak. Not next to Starmer's wish to go further than Boris' other far wider and more useful bus reforms (but nowhere near 70s era bus policy).

It's also why the cap is now a relatively small but still quite serious problem for Starmer while he pursues those bus reforms. Especially if they don't work. You can't raise some people's bus fares by double digit percentages twice in a Parliament and not expect a Boris-quake.
 
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