May 2025 Timetable Change - Confirmed Changes Only

[IrishDave]

Yes they are, hence the 80x regularly losing time on the WCML since introduction.

Ah, I hadn't noticed they were losing time, that makes more sense now. Do we know when the MU linespeeds are coming in?

 

[devon_belle]

I haven't noticed any changes for the metro area, do we know when or even if some of the cuts in the Southern metro area will be restored?
The ones i'm thinking of is:
-The missing 2tph Victoria to Epsom (only a handful of peak services restored)
-The missing 2tph Victoria to Sutton via Selhurst services in the off peak (Restored in the peak)
- The missing 2tph SN from London Bridge along the Annerley Corridor towards Croydon (only a mere smattering of peak hour services were restored in December 2024)

Because the cuts have turned a 4tph turn up and go service in large parts of South London to a rather unattractive 2tph service and i was hoping with SN getting a cascade of 387s from GN we might see some of those cuts restored in the May 2025 timetable

My thoughts exactly. I haven't noticed any changes yet. Sad to see no change to the ridiculous pathing times on the Horsham-Dorking-Victoria trains*, or at least some progress on Saturday evenings and Sunday services (which shouldn't require more units). The longer this goes on the more likely I am to have to move house away from the corridor.

*At least one was actually slowed down in December!

I look forward to reading what changes are made, if any, to the other sectors of the Southern network.

 

[hux385]

I think Avanti might still be incomplete in their data because it's hard to tell if the missing Glasgow-Euston via Birmingham are being reinstated or not. Does anyone have any info or do we just need to wait and see?!

 

[Bald Rick]

I think Avanti might still be incomplete in their data because it's hard to tell if the missing Glasgow-Euston via Birmingham are being reinstated or not. Does anyone have any info or do we just need to wait and see?!

Theres 4 a day each way

 

[hexagon789]

Theres 4 a day each way

So no change then

 

[frodshamfella]

They've run plenty this century so far, albeit not every year. I remember in the early 00s there was at least one year 365s did the specials. Then in the early 2010s there were a couple of years a CHX-GLM was extended to Ramsgate, but didn't run back in passenger service. However since 2018, they have run on weekends in the summer, especially July and August, every year, in addition to the normal timetable. Even covid didn't stop them running (if anything they probably helped spread passenger loads when social distancing was a thing). 465/466s have done them since 2018, although the odd 377 formation has shown up. This year it'll be interesting to see what stock does them with more 377s coming over and potentially taking over more of Gillingham depot.

I didn't know that. I don't recall them at all in the 80s, but I suppose I wasn't looking too much then, I had started work ! But definitely remember going from Bexleyheath to Margate with my nan as a kid in the 70s, changed at Dartford

 

[hux385]

So no change then

However, there is an additional 5M11 arriving into Glasgow at 1014 to now form the 1038 to Euston. But then where does 1S34 go after it arrives at 0916? The data is obviously missing something (or I could be being silly!).

Also, Blackpool North is missing some services in the new timetable. Maybe I'm jumping the gun but I'm really hoping this means more Glasgow-West Midlands services.

 

[Peter0124]

However, there is an additional 5M11 arriving into Glasgow at 1014 to now form the 1038 to Euston. But then where does 1S34 go after it arrives at 0916? The data is obviously missing something (or I could be being silly!).

Also, Blackpool North is missing some services in the new timetable. Maybe I'm jumping the gun but I'm really hoping this means more Glasgow-West Midlands services.

I think they are returning. 1S34 will work 9M53, there is also an empty stock from 9S65 after arriving in Glasgow around 5pm.

Not quite sure if ALL are returning though.

 

[Cletus]

I didn't know that. I don't recall them at all in the 80s, but I suppose I wasn't looking too much then, I had started work ! But definitely remember going from Bexleyheath to Margate with my nan as a kid in the 70s, changed at Dartford

Here's the details of last years services. If you're interested

Southeastern provides local tourism boost with extra trains this summer

Direct services between south-east London and the north Kent coast throughout the summer holidays Extra carriages to provide more capacity to coastal towns in Kent and East Sussex Beat the traffic and travel in a more environmentally sustainable way by leaving the car at home

newsroom.southeasternrailway.co.uk

• Direct services between south-east London and the north Kent coast throughout the summer holidays
• Extra carriages to provide more capacity to coastal towns in Kent and East Sussex
• Beat the traffic and travel in a more environmentally sustainable way by leaving the car at home

Southeastern is making trips to the seaside easier this summer with extra trains throughout the school holidays.
In a boost to the south-east's tourism industry and to encourage a more environmentally sustainable way to travel, additional services will provide a direct link between south-east London and the Kent coast.
From Monday 29 July, on weekdays, there will be a direct service at 09:32 from Cannon Street to Ramsgate via Woolwich Arsenal and Dartford, connecting more stations directly to Whitstable, Herne Bay, Margate and Broadstairs.
This service calls at London Bridge (09:36), Deptford (09:42), Greenwich (09:44), Maze Hill (09:47), Westcombe Park (09:49), Charlton (09:52), Woolwich Dockyard (09:55), Woolwich Arsenal (09:58), Plumstead (10:00), Abbey Wood (10:04), Belvedere (10:07), Erith (10:10), Slade Green (10:14), Dartford (10:20), Greenhithe (10:25), Gravesend (10:33), Strood (10:43), Rochester (10:48), Chatham (10:52), Gillingham (10:57), Rainham (11:02), Sittingbourne (11:10), Faversham (11:12), Whitstable (11:30), Herne Bay (11:37), Margate (11:52), Broadstairs (11:59) and Ramsgate (12:06).

 

[43055]

Couple of extra Chester/North Wales services for Avanti:

Monday to Friday:
0445 Holyhead - Euston
0800 Euston - Holyhead

Sundays:
1500 Euston - Chester

 

[Class15]

Here's the details of last years services. If you're interested

Southeastern provides local tourism boost with extra trains this summer

Direct services between south-east London and the north Kent coast throughout the summer holidays Extra carriages to provide more capacity to coastal towns in Kent and East Sussex Beat the traffic and travel in a more environmentally sustainable way by leaving the car at home

newsroom.southeasternrailway.co.uk

Interesting that they have changed the route. I wonder why?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Couple of extra Chester/North Wales services for Avanti:

Monday to Friday:
0445 Holyhead - Euston

I've just noticed thanks to your post- that 05:35 Blackpool North to London Euston will from the Summer timetable be worked as it used to be pre Covid/in 221 times- as a 5-car set to Crewe and attach to the 04:45 from Holyhead at Crewe.

Annoyingly it still doesn't appear to be calling at Poulton le Fylde or Kirkham and Wesham despite presumably only being a 5-car set.

 

[Farigiraf]

Interesting that they have changed the route. I wonder why?

Presumably running via the most northern 'Bexley Loop' line attracts the most passengers, as more east Londoners can join the service from DLR/Elizabeth at Greenwich, Woolwich Arsenal and Abbey Wood. From the Bexleyheath and Sidcup lines you can either make a simple transfer at any station between Dartford and Gravesend, or take one of the many buses to Woolwich or Abbey Wood.

 

[hozza94]

- The missing 2tph SN from London Bridge along the Annerley Corridor towards Croydon (only a mere smattering of peak hour services were restored in December 2024)

Because the cuts have turned a 4tph turn up and go service in large parts of South London to a rather unattractive 2tph service and i was hoping with SN getting a cascade of 387s from GN we might see some of those cuts restored in the May 2025 timetable

And TFL put their London Bridge plan on hold citing that SN was exploring the restoration of service along the Forest Hill line. The 3 NB services are not enough to alleviate the overcrowding on the Windrush line, especially at Penge West and Anerley. It also continues the poor interchange to East Croydon as the TL call at Norwood Junction doesn't line up with the LO arrival.

 

[MontyP]

From what's been put in for Avanti, it looks like Watford Junction's losing most of its services to Preston and further north. The 05:31 Euston to Glasgow still calls, as it did pre-Covid, as does the 21:10 to Preston via Nuneaton, but the 06:16 Euston to Edinburgh (Milton Keynes Central, Coventry...) now leaves at 06:33. I can't tell what's happening with the 07:16 to Blackpool North (not put in yet?) and the 10:16 and 11:16 to Edinburgh and Blackpool move to xx:38 and run fast to Coventry.

Southbound, the 07:00 from Lancaster and 12:52 from Edinburgh not calling seem to be the only changes for Watford Junction, both running fast south of Coventry.

I thought the Blackpools via Birmingham were supposed to revert to Glasgow in May? The Birmingham-Glasgow service will still be a bit sparse if these are not reinstated to 2-hourly as they were pre-covid

 

[Class15]

Presumably running via the most northern 'Bexley Loop' line attracts the most passengers, as more east Londoners can join the service from DLR/Elizabeth at Greenwich, Woolwich Arsenal and Abbey Wood. From the Bexleyheath and Sidcup lines you can either make a simple transfer at any station between Dartford and Gravesend, or take one of the many buses to Woolwich or Abbey Wood.

According to the post I quoted that was last year’s service. This year’s appears to go via Barnehurst. I agree that it makes more sense via Greenwich.

 

[Farigiraf]

According to the post I quoted that was last year’s service. This year’s appears to go via Barnehurst. I agree that it makes more sense via Greenwich.

Realtime trains says they all go via Greenwich this summer on Saturdays - e.g. this service.

 

[Class15]

Realtime trains says they all go via Greenwich this summer on Saturdays - e.g. this service.

Ah thanks - maybe the day I picked had some engineering works of some sort! Thanks for sending those links!

 

[brad465]

Looks like it, Southeastern has 100+ schedules that change at the end of July and nothing is using the Blackheath tunnel at the start of the May timetable.

Does this mean they're closing the tunnel again, or are those services just not uploaded yet?

 

[GW43125]

Does this mean they're closing the tunnel again, or are those services just not uploaded yet?

Blackheath Tunnel blocked 1st June - 11th August https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/blackheath-tunnel-upgrade/

From, Saturday 1 June to Sunday 11 August inclusive, the Blackheath tunnel between Blackheath and Charlton will close as Network Rail begins £10m of essential repairs to the 175-year-old Victorian-era structure.

 

[Trainguy34]

Realtime trains says they all go via Greenwich this summer on Saturdays - e.g. this service.

Also timed for 75mph, so probably a networker

 

[brad465]

Blackheath Tunnel blocked 1st June - 11th August https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/blackheath-tunnel-upgrade/

That concerns 2024, the dates in the headline give weekdays that were last year.

Also timed for 75mph, so probably a networker

Will be interesting to see if 707s ever do this one day, given they are now set to get toilets (probably too soon for this summer though). However 5 and 10 car formations out to Ramsgate in passenger service could be an issue.

 

[Stephen42]

That concerns 2024, the dates in the headline give weekdays that were last year.


Will be interesting to see if 707s ever do this one day, given they are now set to get toilets (probably too soon for this summer though). However 5 and 10 car formations out to Ramsgate in passenger service could be an issue.

This year it's 10 weeks from the May timetable change so 19th May until 25th July are the weekdays impacted. The schedules exist in both periods going via Greenwich and then via Lewisham after. With that duration a Blackheath tunnel closure seems the only likely reason.

The 707s aren't signed by any guards and Ramsgate is far outside the agreed DOO area. For a handful of trains over summer doesn't seem likely to be worth the effort to negotiate for anything different.

 

[GW43125]

That concerns 2024, the dates in the headline give weekdays that were last year.

Oops!

Will be interesting to see if 707s ever do this one day, given they are now set to get toilets (probably too soon for this summer though). However 5 and 10 car formations out to Ramsgate in passenger service could be an issue.

It's a 10 car railway as far as Gravesend then 12 thereafter so should be fine-i was wondering how long it'd take for one to make it to Ramsgate!

They're a good run with nets, missing out Birchington etc., wonder what they'll drop this year

 

[The Planner]

Do you mean the 80x Sectional Running Times, which have been used to time the xx:02/16/43 departures since Dec 2022, are predicated on the MU linespeed improvements that are yet to be implemented? I wasn't aware that was the case.

Yes

 

[Trainguy34]

They're a good run with nets, missing out Birchington etc., wonder what they'll drop this year

Judging by the paths (which are on Realtime trains already), calling all stops Cannon St - Dartford (Via Abbey Wd), Greenhithe, Gravesend, Strood, then the standard high-speed calling pattern but skipping the 2 on-seas.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Malvern - Snow Hill - Stratford returns with WMR after a hiatus of several years at the timetable change with a SuO 09.08 Great Malvern - Stratford on Avon.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Blackheath tunnel has a 10 week blockade again this year.

 

[DaveHarries]

GWR services now starting to appear. The Par - Newquay services are not yet up but those on the Severn Beach line certainly are and likewise times from locations such as Bristol Parkway and Westbury.

Dave

 

[PGAT]

The only change I have spotted on Southern so far is the 2156 from Brighton extended from Eastbourne to Hastings