'Slow living', and life in a pre-current-internet world

[Peter C]

To paraphrase Victoria Wood, that title took two days to think up: one day for the name, and another for the comma... and yet it still makes no sense.
Let's see if I can explain myself - strap yourselves in, keep arms and feet inside the ride at all times, and keep an eye out for a buffet service of hot food and drinks...

I've found myself thinking of late that the internet and Life In General is perhaps a bit too fast and that it would be nice to slow down a little bit. I don't whether this is just me - but I do know I won't be the only one here who has spent much too much time scrolling endlessly on my phone (or laptop or fridge or other web-enabled device), and that's the sort of thing I'm referring to because I think we all know how quickly fads and news stories and pretty much anything seems to come and go online and how social media in particular is always keen to serve users the 'next big thing' and all that. I promise I'm getting somewhere...

So, the reason behind this thread: I'm mostly wondering if there are any other users who feel the same? I'm also wondering - would you say that in the, say, decade or so before the mass-adoption of the internet (which someone as hideously young as me wasn't around for), the pace of life was better or worse? Gosh it sounds like a survey now but I hope you see what I mean. I've been trying to find ways of not spending so much time stuck to the internet (including reading these paper things - books?) - and yes, I'm perfectly aware of the irony of how that sounds when I've spent so much time writing this - and each time I find a 'new' way of doing this I find myself thinking 'this feels like how life must've been before the internet'. Again - probably making no sense here, but there's nothing new there.

If you can decipher any of the above, I should very much like to hear your own thoughts on my pontifications (triple word score).

-Peter

 

[deltic]

When I first started working we had typing pools. A letter would come in, you would draft a reply and send it to the typing pool, when it came back you would read it and think that's not quite right, revise it, send it back to the typing pool and all being well the reply would eventually go out a few days after the original letter came in. The process was slow but more considered. I remember when we received our first fax and the shock of faxing a response back the same day.

Writing a letter required some effort and cost of a stamp and if you wanted a reply you could not be anonymous. Queries or comments were therefore more civil and better thought out.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Seconded.

I try not to overdo the internet BUT it does seem to rapidly delivery over information, misinformation and just plain intrigue.

I am 65 and i wonder if I m anymore wiser as a result of the internet.

Well there are lots more things one can do and explore.

Its addictive.

To put it straight the first thing I would do is censorship of the internet. There is a lot of rubbish out there - some of it very nasty. We need to face up to the fact it needs controlling.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2025 ==

When I first started working we had typing pools. A letter would come in, you would draft a reply and send it to the typing pool, when it came back you would read it and think that's not quite right, revise it, send it back to the typing pool and all being well the reply would eventually go out a few days after the original letter came in. The process was slow but more considered. I remember when we received our first fax and the shock of faxing a response back the same day.

Writing a letter required some effort and cost of a stamp and if you wanted a reply you could not be anonymous. Queries or comments were therefore more civil and better thought out.

Oh yes stamps. Because email is free the sender can send as much rubbish as they like to as many people as they like.

I suppose one thing I wonder about is how much are our lives really better.

It also occurs to me that in this day and age the rate of progress is getting faster and faster. So even within one generation there is so much more "progress".

 

[Peter C]

I'm glad it's not just me!

When I first started working we had typing pools. A letter would come in, you would draft a reply and send it to the typing pool, when it came back you would read it and think that's not quite right, revise it, send it back to the typing pool and all being well the reply would eventually go out a few days after the original letter came in. The process was slow but more considered. I remember when we received our first fax and the shock of faxing a response back the same day.

Writing a letter required some effort and cost of a stamp and if you wanted a reply you could not be anonymous. Queries or comments were therefore more civil and better thought out.

I completely agree with the sentiment of your last line in particular. I've begun writing letters to people because I think it's just generally nicer to receive a handwritten (or even typed) letter in the post - something someone has put proper effort into composing, presenting, and posting - than receiving a 'ping' notification and seeing someone has sent you a text message. Plus - and this might be the historian in me - I do worry a bit about what will happen to all our correspondence online in years to come. The internet is already littered with once-popular websites and forums where a server has gone down and so photographs etc. have been lost, and I've been thinking about what might happen to all my (many, many) conversations with friends and relatives should something like WhatsApp go down.

Seconded.

I try not to overdo the internet BUT it does seem to rapidly delivery over information, misinformation and just plain intrigue.

I am 65 and i wonder if I m anymore wiser as a result of the internet.

Well there are lots more things one can do and explore.

Its addictive.

To put it straight the first thing I would do is censorship of the internet. There is a lot of rubbish out there - some of it very nasty. We need to face up to the fact it needs controlling.

I think some of my recent change in attitude, and desire to do things a bit more slowly, is seeing how much worse so many things online seem to be nowadays - when pretty much every website I want to use is filled with AI chatbots and pop-up notifications, it makes me wonder - how on earth did we ever get by before Google introduced its AI search result thing...! </sarcasm>
In all seriousness, though, I completely agree with you re. the internet being addictive. I think I have definitely learned a lot from it - I particularly enjoy being able to connect with, and learn from, people around the globe - but then you've always got to measure that against the negatives to get a true measure of its effect. If there was a way to turn the internet off for a few hours a day around the world just so we could all go outside and do something face-to-face rather than over Zoom or even Microsoft Teams, I'd like that one please! There must be a big 'on/off' button for the internet somewhere.

It also occurs to me that in this day and age the rate of progress is getting faster and faster. So even within one generation there is so much more "progress".

Yes the rate of progress is a good point. Sometimes I wonder what someone born one-hundred years ago might think about the technological changes the world has seen in their lifetime - from radio through television to the internet and now AI. And of course Ceefax!

-Peter

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'm glad it's not just me!


I completely agree with the sentiment of your last line in particular. I've begun writing letters to people because I think it's just generally nicer to receive a handwritten (or even typed) letter in the post - something someone has put proper effort into composing, presenting, and posting - than receiving a 'ping' notification and seeing someone has sent you a text message. Plus - and this might be the historian in me - I do worry a bit about what will happen to all our correspondence online in years to come. The internet is already littered with once-popular websites and forums where a server has gone down and so photographs etc. have been lost, and I've been thinking about what might happen to all my (many, many) conversations with friends and relatives should something like WhatsApp go down.

This is something that bothers me. An old letter required no technology to access it. Stuff I have on floppy disks - when was the last time anyone saw a floppy disk reader. Web Forums - there was a good one for Vauxhall Carltons - gone (it was free but the host needed to make it pay).

I think some of my recent change in attitude, and desire to do things a bit more slowly, is seeing how much worse so many things online seem to be nowadays - when pretty much every website I want to use is filled with AI chatbots and pop-up notifications, it makes me wonder - how on earth did we ever get by before Google introduced its AI search result thing...! </sarcasm>
In all seriousness, though, I completely agree with you re. the internet being addictive. I think I have definitely learned a lot from it - I particularly enjoy being able to connect with, and learn from, people around the globe - but then you've always got to measure that against the negatives to get a true measure of its effect. If there was a way to turn the internet off for a few hours a day around the world just so we could all go outside and do something face-to-face rather than over Zoom or even Microsoft Teams, I'd like that one please! There must be a big 'on/off' button for the internet somewhere.

Actually - if the internet just stopped would everyone just go out and riot ?.
Certainly would without food in their belly.
And now more and more people shop online.

Yes the rate of progress is a good point. Sometimes I wonder what someone born one-hundred years ago might think about the technological changes the world has seen in their lifetime - from radio through television to the internet and now AI. And of course Ceefax!

-Peter

 

[4COR]

To put it straight the first thing I would do is censorship of the internet. There is a lot of rubbish out there - some of it very nasty. We need to face up to the fact it needs controlling.

The ability to look up information is amazing, but with regards to the rubbish and the nasty stuff - is it worse than what would be heard in the pub ? Is the issue amplification by social media, and to be frank, today's media?

 

[sjpowermac]

Some interesting thoughts already on this thread.

Regarding the hobby of ‘rail enthusiast’ I have found out so much through forums such as this one, both in terms of the current railway scene and the history.

These days websites such as Traksy/Real Time Trains/Gen groups and forums et al are so helpful for seeing interesting workings. In the past just turning up somewhere like York and you were bound to see something interesting!

 

[Peter Sarf]

The ability to look up information is amazing, but with regards to the rubbish and the nasty stuff - is it worse than what would be heard in the pub ? Is the issue amplification by social media, and to be frank, today's media?

Oh yes. I have likened the internet to being down the pub. We however seem to take what we "learn" down the pub with a pinch of salt. BUT it is also so easy to repeat and ass pass on information (whether mis-information or not) so much easier with social media.

Some interesting thoughts already on this thread.

Regarding the hobby of ‘rail enthusiast’ I have found out so much through forums such as this one, both in terms of the current railway scene and the history.

These days websites such as Traksy/Real Time Trains/Gen groups and forums et al are so helpful for seeing interesting workings. In the past just turning up somewhere like York and you were bound to see something interesting!

Of course when I was a lad there was a lot more interesting stuff to bump into by chance. Nowadays we need more information. BUT I wonder - do I spend more time "researching" on the internet than I used to spend just hanging around likely locations. We used to know roughly where to go to get certain types of trains. Was that taking a chance part of the joy of spotting ?.

As for York - for me it was Birmingham New Street. From 1974 there were a lot more locomotives of course but at New Street there were a lot of locomotive changes (changing ends and changing traction electric to/from diesel).

So for railways the scene is kind of less varied nowadays. I wonder what would we have made of the interned fifty years ago ?. For me it was the very very rare opportunity to get a TOPS list that was the only parallel to nowadays.

 

[4COR]

BUT it is also so easy to repeat and ass on information (whether mis-information or not) so much easier with social media.

If ever there was an inadvertent truth in a mistake!

 

[Crithylum]

I'm 19 now. I've grown up with the internet basically all my life. However, unlike my sister, my childhood predates the brainrot that is Youtube kids, or certain parts of Tiktok. I think that (at least within primary school age), my sister has had much more use of computers/internet. Whether this is good or bad I am not certain. However, I can say that most of my knowledge (mainly maths/science/engineering) has come from the internet or the "good" parts of Youtube (school system is useless). This would've existed in the form of books pre-internet, however, the easy availability and quality of some internet resources in unparalleled by books. On balance, I think I am glad that I grew up in this small window of time where computers/internet was only extremely commonplace from secondary school age. However, most generations could probably say "it was better in my day".

Either fortunately or unfortantely, I think I am one or two years too early for AI to have a significant impact on my childhood education. Chat GPT launched to the public just after I started sixth form. As I was only doing STEM (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) subjects, it wasn't particuarly useful. In fact, it was sh*t. Although modern iterations are probably actually useable. As I progress through university, I get the feeling that the AI will be a year or two behind the standards of what I am expected to create. But I appreciate that it will likely be widepread by the time I graduate. It is already good enough that unless I am doing something really basic, I will get it to code for me. I am already at the point where I use it as a search engine for about 20% of my queries. I guess I could say that my year (not generation) had it easy that we didn't have the "forbidden fruit" of AI during GCSEs, and are still young enough such that we can become comfortable with widespread AI. But there will be new paradigm shifts, that later generations will benefit/suffer from.

 

[Peter C]

This is something that bothers me. An old letter required no technology to access it. Stuff I have on floppy disks - when was the last time anyone saw a floppy disk reader. Web Forums - there was a good one for Vauxhall Carltons - gone (it was free but the host needed to make it pay).

Yes this is exactly what I mean. With things like floppy disks, cassettes, and VHS tapes for example, it might be a bit of a pain to find players for them, but it can be done - because they're physical items, produced in large quantities, many of which have been kept. But unless you print out your favourite web forum you'll be stuck if it goes down forever!

Some interesting thoughts already on this thread.

Regarding the hobby of ‘rail enthusiast’ I have found out so much through forums such as this one, both in terms of the current railway scene and the history.

These days websites such as Traksy/Real Time Trains/Gen groups and forums et al are so helpful for seeing interesting workings. In the past just turning up somewhere like York and you were bound to see something interesting!

I've often thought about this when I've gone out-and-about on the trains. I've not gone out with the intention of going trainspotting for ages now, but I still like to keep an eye out for any interesting services or stock coming through. In that regard the internet has been very helpful - particularly the RailForums 'TOPS requests' threads!

I'm 19 now. I've grown up with the internet basically all my life. However, unlike my sister, my childhood predates the brainrot that is Youtube kids, or certain parts of Tiktok. I think that (at least within primary school age), my sister has had much more use of computers/internet. Whether this is good or bad I am not certain. However, I can say that most of my knowledge (mainly maths/science/engineering) has come from the internet or the "good" parts of Youtube (school system is useless). This would've existed in the form of books pre-internet, however, the easy availability and quality of some internet resources in unparalleled by books. On balance, I think I am glad that I grew up in this small window of time where computers/internet was only extremely commonplace from secondary school age. However, most generations could probably say "it was better in my day".

My opinion is that the increased use of computers and the internet more generally by younger people isn't necessarily a good thing. I feel quite lucky in a way to have grown up with the internet at a time when it had been widely adopted, but was still seen (at least, this is my impression) as 'the thing on the computer' rather than 'part of all parts of everyday life', if that makes sense. I expect the development of smartphones has changed that mentality.

Either fortunately or unfortantely, I think I am one or two years too early for AI to have a significant impact on my childhood education. Chat GPT launched to the public just after I started sixth form. As I was only doing STEM (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) subjects, it wasn't particuarly useful. In fact, it was sh*t. Although modern iterations are probably actually useable. As I progress through university, I get the feeling that the AI will be a year or two behind the standards of what I am expected to create. But I appreciate that it will likely be widepread by the time I graduate. It is already good enough that unless I am doing something really basic, I will get it to code for me. I am already at the point where I use it as a search engine for about 20% of my queries. I guess I could say that my year (not generation) had it easy that we didn't have the "forbidden fruit" of AI during GCSEs, and are still young enough such that we can become comfortable with widespread AI. But there will be new paradigm shifts, that later generations will benefit/suffer from.

The increasing use of AI in almost everything it seems is partially what prompted me to make this thread. The way it's being forced into everything online makes many sites increasingly difficult to just browse and makes me think there must be a better way of doing things than this - hence, I suppose, the idea of 'slow living'. I don't think I'll ever properly understand the use of ChatGPT etc. as a search engine - knowing how it just guesses the next word in the sentence (and, in my experience, often comes up with complete nonsense) puts me off using it rather than putting a search query into Google and finding a result written by someone with proper kowledge of an area. I'd be quite happy with AI staying as developed as it is, or as it was a few years ago, and being a fun novelty rather than something which invades every digital thing!

-Peter

 

[Snow1964]

I am 60, so also grew up with slower pace of life. Everything from meeting up at a pub had to be planned, no last minute changes to venue. Phoning someone's house was about extent of communication unless you wrote a letter. To some extent gave more control and no panic to react straight away.

Of course information was harder, had to read weekly local part for notices, cinema times etc. Going to library and opening Encyclopaedia Britannica was the way, no instant lookup like now.

It did tend to mean only knew about what you were interested in, but it was better than being bombarded with pop-ups, chat-bots, adverts etc.

I don't think I am alone in wanting less irrelevant info, we now have a town what's on email every 2 weeks. Anyone else who sends emails with their offers more than once every 3 weeks I now unsubscribe (I really don't need multiple reminders of semi-permanent sale).

Similarly clubs now have WhatsApp groups, just notify changes, matches, closures due to bad weather etc. No personal stuff. And like many others logged out of social media (as it is full of garbage postings), removed all the notifications too. I want to relax and enjoy life, not be a slave to the internet and social media companies

 

[JohnMcL7]

This is something that bothers me. An old letter required no technology to access it. Stuff I have on floppy disks - when was the last time anyone saw a floppy disk reader. Web Forums - there was a good one for Vauxhall Carltons - gone (it was free but the host needed to make it pay).

This is also something that increasingly worries me as well. I came across a photo album of my grand parents and showing them on holiday a 100 years ago, showing their house, their dog etc. While the photos have faded a bit in time they'll likely still exist a lot longer, similarly my parents were diligent in taking photos when I was younger and we have photo albums with one for each year. I carried this on myself into the digital era choosing the photos I liked over the year, getting them printed and putting them in an album but then no-one ever looked at them and they were taking up space so I stopped. Which I regret now since it's such a big gap to fill now and I do worry after spending all this time and money on taking photos what will happen to them in a hundred years, even if the current drive was intact I doubt the technology will still exist to connect to it.

The loss of forums is also concerning since all that knowledge and information that would have been there is mostly gone now and locked away somewhere inaccessible on private facebook groups which will also likely be lost in time when that all finally collapses.

 

[Peter Sarf]

This is also something that increasingly worries me as well. I came across a photo album of my grand parents and showing them on holiday a 100 years ago, showing their house, their dog etc. While the photos have faded a bit in time they'll likely still exist a lot longer, similarly my parents were diligent in taking photos when I was younger and we have photo albums with one for each year. I carried this on myself into the digital era choosing the photos I liked over the year, getting them printed and putting them in an album but then no-one ever looked at them and they were taking up space so I stopped. Which I regret now since it's such a big gap to fill now and I do worry after spending all this time and money on taking photos what will happen to them in a hundred years, even if the current drive was intact I doubt the technology will still exist to connect to it.

The loss of forums is also concerning since all that knowledge and information that would have been there is mostly gone now and locked away somewhere inaccessible on private facebook groups which will also likely be lost in time when that all finally collapses.

Facebook - I found most of my car forum have drifted onto facebook. I am now bombarded with notifications for non-car related events - usually family oriented. I do not see any actual car related posts. The only place I see that is Vauxhall Carltons selling on ebay for alarmingly high prices !.

It is on forums that things like moderators kept things organised !.

We have to remember that most of the internet is an OPPORTUNITY for someone to make money out of advertising. Once their website is getting enough hits the adverts will creep in. We have seen this with YouTube and many times my insistence adverts would come eventually was down played by friends. It was inevitable - nothing is for free.

The way round it is things like the TV licence fee - the BBC do not have to worry about offending advertisers. Can you imagine if Panorama did a special on some scandal with certain foods but had to edit out bad references to a food manufacturer that was busy advertising on the BBC.

I can remember back in the 1980s looking at HiFi magazines and noting how some complained about certain makes but loved or were neutral on others. Just look at which manufacturers were advertising on which magazines. A solution is the consumers association Which Magazine - they do not have any advertisers so can say what they think.

So perhaps there is a case for subscription based web forums.
Yeah me too - I want it all for free. But then I have given up watching the Yesterday channel because it has too many adverts - seems to be 20 minutes per hour and worse at the end of programs, so bad that I was often abandoning a viewing just over half way through !.

So to me it is obvious how marketing will dominate the internet - it is the only thing paying for it.

As for AI :-
We recently switched to Vodafone full fibre (so no longer on twisted pair copper).
Phone no longer works obviously. I needed an adaptor to connect phone to the router.
Eventually found an email from Vodafone with info linking to an online help service.
Selected router on fibre, phone problem, eventually led to - hey presto a button marked "Order Phone Adaptor".
So far so good (a little tedious but hey ho).
The button went straight to a chat BOT.
I tried about six times to get the chat BOT to understand what I wanted.
It was hopeless.
If I plugged on it would eventually pass me to a human.
BUT I had to go through the online verification first. Sometimes I failed this.
On the two occasions I managed to prove to the computer that I was human so I myself could talk to their human it turned out no one was available !.
Get how I have to prove to them that I am human but they are quite comfortable with them not being human !.
Eventually I found a phone number (obviously not working from the house).
I got through to an Indian call centre where I could understand about 30 percent of what the human said (a rather thick accent). But we got there and the adaptor was ordered Friday for delivery Monday. Most of the rest of the conversation seemed to be him trying to sell us an upgrade - I said send info in the post please.
I will never complain about Indian call centres again - at least they are human.
Might be AI but I got an email confirming order and linking to order tracking.
Looked a few times over the weekend - steady progress.
Monday morning said it was delivered, it finally made it through our side of the door in the afternoon - was that AI guessing ?.
All in all a lot of time and energy wasted on a simple problem.

As an aside I had considered just cancelling the direct debt to get the suppliers attention - if I did not succeed.
But is occurs to me that one day I will have to converse with AI or a chatBOT at the bank to achieve cancelling a direct debit.
See where I am going with this.
We humans ARE losing control.
Soon be wishing I was doing everything by CASH.

 

[Gostav]

Stuff I have on floppy disks - when was the last time anyone saw a floppy disk reader.

In fact, this is more like a problem brought about by the "early stages" of technologies not just digital. For example, in the film era, the colours of early colour photos and colour negatives were not reliable, and many would fade within a decade or even a few years. This directly led to the fact that for quite a long time, museums and art galleries refused to collect any colour photos.

For photography, there are many film formats that became unavailable or hard to find long before the internet and digital age, such as old 116, 620 and 127 roll film.

 

[Peter Sarf]

In fact, this is more like a problem brought about by the "early stages" of technology. For example, in the film era, the colours of early colour photos and colour negatives were not reliable, and many would fade within a decade or even a few years. This directly led to the fact that for quite a long time, museums and art galleries refused to collect any colour photos.

For photography, there are many film formats that became unavailable or hard to find long before the internet and digital age, such as old 116, 620 and 127 roll film.

Another is vinyl records replaced by CDs. But now Vinyl records are back in fashion.

Something that old me does not feel comfortable about is music now being something you down load when you want to play it. I prefer to OWN a copy in my personal possession instead of relying on an ongoing subscription.

But then again was "home taping is killing music" the cause of the desire by artists to prefer to charge a subscription ?.
Going back even further, if you wanted to hear / watch some music you had to go to a concert - so that was a kind of subscription.
Have we gone full circle ?.
Well I would prefer the live venue. But not at the prices big bands charge nowadays !.
So I prefer to go to a small venue (pub) and watch an amateur band - cheap/free but good enough and I am a lot closer to the band.

 

[Andover]

I am 65 and i wonder if I m anymore wiser as a result of the internet.

As another not-quite-digital native, I'd take your point, but would definitely say yes. Of course some of the vast amount of resources for self-education I've found on the internet could have been and has been replicated in libraries or lectures, but you just can't match the amount or convenience.

The problem, as others have said, is that so much of that was on, as it were, the old internet, and it has been increasingly been taken down or dying. I've noticed myself becoming a proper old fogey in real time.

But there will be new paradigm shifts, that later generations will benefit/suffer from.

I note with interest Australia's suggested ban on social media for those under 16. As with games, I wonder how effective that will be, although I suppose being an island a long way from anywhere does help.

 

[Peter Sarf]

As another not-quite-digital native, I'd take your point, but would definitely say yes. Of course some of the vast amount of resources for self-education I've found on the internet could have been and has been replicated in libraries or lectures, but you just can't match the amount or convenience.

The problem, as others have said, is that so much of that was on, as it were, the old internet, and it has been increasingly been taken down or dying. I've noticed myself becoming a proper old fogey in real time.

I note with interest Australia's suggested ban on social media for those under 16. As with games, I wonder how effective that will be, although I suppose being an island a long way from anywhere does help.

I agree about age limits and I think censorship is inevitable as it has been a free for all.

I look at my ten year old granddaughter and wonder about how much time she spends online. Her father has spoilt her with all you can eat data and a top end iPhone. Also an iPad. When she is out with me her phone is in my pocket so that I have her attention and there is less chance of the phone being snatched. Pity dads other justification for the phone was in case she got lost !.

 

[Indigo Soup]

One doesn't need to go back all that far to remember a simpler, better time - I'm still a few years shy of forty, and I can identify a shift.

And I think that shift more or less lines up with mass social media, and in particular the big social media companies use of algorithms to determine what content users get to see. The 'old internet' of forums, blogs, and small websites built by enthusiasts had plenty of problems. But it felt like there was much more of a sense that online life was an adjunct to real life, rather than the other way around.

The multiplication of smartphones probably didn't help, but they'd be far less pernicious without social media algorithms manipulating people's dopamine levels to maximise 'engagement'.

Something that old me does not feel comfortable about is music now being something you down load when you want to play it. I prefer to OWN a copy in my personal possession instead of relying on an ongoing subscription.

Sadly, there are all too many cases where visual media (films and TV) has only existed on one streaming platform... and then the company which owned the rights has determined that it's in their interests to delete the media from existence entirely. Usually on the basis of some tax break for one year.

Yes, the conventional broadcasters aren't without sin (looking at you, lost BBC shows). But we ought to know better now. Apparently what we know better is how to manipulate financial rules.

 

[Andover]

I agree about age limits

I'm not sure we do - I think they're effectively unenforceable!

I think censorship is inevitable as it has been a free for all.

There is already endless censorship on the internet. Barring being handed the power myself (and everyone knows that's a bad idea), I'd rather there be as little as possible.

Her father has spoilt her with all you can eat data and a top end iPhone. Also an iPad.

I'm an Android man myself. Is it just Americanisation that's the reason why Apple is much more common in Britain than on the continent?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'm not sure we do - I think they're effectively unenforceable!

Here comes id cards for everyone and a view of who is watching the content.

There is already endless censorship on the internet. Barring being handed the power myself (and everyone knows that's a bad idea), I'd rather there be as little as possible.

It is getting too far out of control.
Although more time and effort spent educating people on the pitfalls of believing what is on the internet might help it is the alarming rate at which false information gets posted and re posted that is the difference perhaps.

I'm an Android man myself. Is it just Americanisation that's the reason why Apple is much more common in Britain than on the continent?

Same here - Android. I am the odd one out in the family. Means I cannot borrow other peoples chargers BUT does mean no one nicks mine !.

 

[Indigo Soup]

There is already endless censorship on the internet. Barring being handed the power myself (and everyone knows that's a bad idea), I'd rather there be as little as possible.

A remarkable amount of it is preemptive self-censorship in an attempt to avoid being penalised for breaking rules that don't exist.

Although more time and effort spent educating people on the pitfalls of believing what is on the internet might help it is the alarming rate at which false information gets posted and re posted that is the difference perhaps.

Unfortunately the rise of sophisticated autocomplete algorithms (being trumpeted as 'Artificial Intelligence') means that not only can a lie travel halfway around the world before truth has got its boots on - but that the lie has also begotten several generations of offspring in that time.

 

[Peter Sarf]

A remarkable amount of it is preemptive self-censorship in an attempt to avoid being penalised for breaking rules that don't exist.

Unfortunately the rise of sophisticated autocomplete algorithms (being trumpeted as 'Artificial Intelligence') means that not only can a lie travel halfway around the world before truth has got its boots on - but that the lie has also begotten several generations of offspring in that time.

So true !.

 

[BingMan]

To paraphrase Victoria Wood, that title took two days to think up: one day for the name, and another for the comma... and yet it still makes no sense.
Let's see if I can explain myself - strap yourselves in, keep arms and feet inside the ride at all times, and keep an eye out for a buffet service of hot food and drinks...

I've found myself thinking of late that the internet and Life In General is perhaps a bit too fast and that it would be nice to slow down a little bit. I don't whether this is just me - but I do know I won't be the only one here who has spent much too much time scrolling endlessly on my phone (or laptop or fridge or other web-enabled device), and that's the sort of thing I'm referring to because I think we all know how quickly fads and news stories and pretty much anything seems to come and go online and how social media in particular is always keen to serve users the 'next big thing' and all that. I promise I'm getting somewhere...

So, the reason behind this thread: I'm mostly wondering if there are any other users who feel the same? I'm also wondering - would you say that in the, say, decade or so before the mass-adoption of the internet (which someone as hideously young as me wasn't around for), the pace of life was better or worse? Gosh it sounds like a survey now but I hope you see what I mean. I've been trying to find ways of not spending so much time stuck to the internet (including reading these paper things - books?) - and yes, I'm perfectly aware of the irony of how that sounds when I've spent so much time writing this - and each time I find a 'new' way of doing this I find myself thinking 'this feels like how life must've been before the internet'. Again - probably making no sense here, but there's nothing new there.

If you can decipher any of the above, I should very much like to hear your own thoughts on my pontifications (triple word score).

-Peter

Looking back I cannot understand how I was able to do my job as an electronic engineer before the internet and modern computers.
We only discovered new chips and components through reading trade magazines or reiving catalogues in the post. And finding detailed information involve telephoning the manufacturer and hopefully receiving a data sheet by post several days later.
Today if I want a 17Mhz left handed desplatter chip I simply Google it.

And circuit diagrams and printed circuit boards were a nightmare. The former drawn with a clutch pencil and stencils with no automatic design checking. The latter made up using sticky "brady" tape and other stencils.

 

[Lewisham2221]

To paraphrase Victoria Wood, that title took two days to think up: one day for the name, and another for the comma... and yet it still makes no sense.
Let's see if I can explain myself - strap yourselves in, keep arms and feet inside the ride at all times, and keep an eye out for a buffet service of hot food and drinks...

I've found myself thinking of late that the internet and Life In General is perhaps a bit too fast and that it would be nice to slow down a little bit. I don't whether this is just me - but I do know I won't be the only one here who has spent much too much time scrolling endlessly on my phone (or laptop or fridge or other web-enabled device), and that's the sort of thing I'm referring to because I think we all know how quickly fads and news stories and pretty much anything seems to come and go online and how social media in particular is always keen to serve users the 'next big thing' and all that. I promise I'm getting somewhere...

So, the reason behind this thread: I'm mostly wondering if there are any other users who feel the same? I'm also wondering - would you say that in the, say, decade or so before the mass-adoption of the internet (which someone as hideously young as me wasn't around for), the pace of life was better or worse? Gosh it sounds like a survey now but I hope you see what I mean. I've been trying to find ways of not spending so much time stuck to the internet (including reading these paper things - books?) - and yes, I'm perfectly aware of the irony of how that sounds when I've spent so much time writing this - and each time I find a 'new' way of doing this I find myself thinking 'this feels like how life must've been before the internet'. Again - probably making no sense here, but there's nothing new there.

If you can decipher any of the above, I should very much like to hear your own thoughts on my pontifications (triple word score).

-Peter

I'm only in my mid-30s, but I definitely know where you're coming from. All this technology was supposed to make things easier and more convenient, yet people seem more stressed and constantly in a rush.

As a child, during the 90s, I remember many a trip to town with my mother would involve being dragged to and from about half a dozen places (banks, post office, utility companies etc) to spend an age queuing and eventually pay a bill or withdraw cash or whatever. No need for any of that nonsense now - but what do we do with that extra time we saved ourselves?

Many workplaces have developed a culture whereby - due to the almost instant delivery of email - people are expected to read/reply/react to an email almost as instantly. People essentially working for free, responding to emails out of hours and working during their commute. The technology was supposed to increase productivity by saving time, instead we spend more time working.

I saw something somewhere (possibly another thread on this forum) about how "younger" people today - millennials (or at least those towards the younger half of the millennial generation) and younger generations - are almost incapable of being alone with their own thoughts, requiring a constant stimulus of conversing with other people, watching television or listening to music. It's nice to take a step back, put your phone in your pocket, leave the earphones at home and look and listen to what's going on around you. So many of us (as a whole) have abandoned "good old fashioned" hobbies and activities and replaced them with juggling half a dozen social media apps.

 

[nlogax]

I've spent much of my life online since the early 90s when I first got access to email, Gopher, Usenet and a text browser (showing my age there..). Having been online for decades I didn't really notice the noise of that world - it just snuck up on me over the years and only when I'm offline for a bit while travelling do I suddenly notice what true peace and tranquility is. It's only during the last couple of years that I've suddenly yearned for peace and quiet. So no more news podcasts, no more 'traditional' social media (FB, X / Twitter etc) or the resulting dopamine hits from posting something vaguely popular, no more short form content or room temperature takes from those with the attention span of goldfish. Have to say it's working wonders for me. YouTube is still a bit of a vice but at least its algorithm does a pretty good job of knowing what I'm about and what's relevant to my interests.

Probably a fair bet to say there are thousands of us in a similar position partly as a result of having the online well poisoned by political and societal events of the last decade. Now is as good a time as any to try and disconnect, even partially.

Many workplaces have developed a culture whereby - due to the almost instant delivery of email - people are expected to read/reply/react to an email almost as instantly. People essentially working for free, responding to emails out of hours and working during their commute. The technology was supposed to increase productivity by saving time, instead we spend more time working.

Not just workplaces.. people..families, friends etc. The expectation of being always available and for instant replies can be draining. One great example would be Whatsapp's blue ticks. Of course they can be turned off, but the feature seems to have a lot to answer for.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I've spent much of my life online since the early 90s when I first got access to email, Gopher, Usenet and a text browser (showing my age there..). Having been online for decades I didn't really notice the noise of that world - it just snuck up on me over the years and only when I'm offline for a bit while travelling do I suddenly notice what true peace and tranquility is. It's only during the last couple of years that I've suddenly yearned for peace and quiet. So no more news podcasts, no more 'traditional' social media (FB, X / Twitter etc) or the resulting dopamine hits from posting something vaguely popular, no more short form content or room temperature takes from those with the attention span of goldfish. Have to say it's working wonders for me. YouTube is still a bit of a vice but at least its algorithm does a pretty good job of knowing what I'm about and what's relevant to my interests.

Probably a fair bet to say there are thousands of us in a similar position partly as a result of having the online well poisoned by political and societal events of the last decade. Now is as good a time as any to try and disconnect, even partially.

Yes! Those last few words are key. Just because all this technology, all these apps, all these platforms and all this content exists, doesn't mean we all have to subscribe to all of it.

Not just workplaces.. people..families, friends etc. The expectation of being always available and for instant replies can be draining. One great example would be Whatsapp's blue ticks. Of course they can be turned off, but the feature seems to have a lot to answer for.

Agreed. My mother is bad for this, the moment her phone "pings" she will cut off mid-sentence to read and reply to a message instantly, as if the message is going to disappear. She doesn't seem to see the irony of interrupting the flow of a face-to-face conversation in order to maintain the flow of a remote conversation.

 

[Cowley]

Agreed. My mother is bad for this, the moment her phone "pings" she will cut off mid-sentence to read and reply to a message instantly, as if the message is going to disappear. She doesn't seem to see the irony of interrupting the flow of a face-to-face conversation in order to maintain the flow of a remote conversation.

This drives me up the wall too.

I just stop talking to people when they do that and let them finish whatever they were sidetracked with as there’s no point even trying to hold a conversation at the same time.

I keep my phone on silent and just check it from time to time as a rule. I don’t feel that the jump I make when a phone dings is a healthy thing to have in my life.

I also don’t really do any social media other than this and a bit of YouTube these days. I try and read books instead and I find it much more calming.

 

[route101]

Yes, I know a few people that don't like being alone. They don't understand why I travel alone. I had a few colleagues that would immediately phone someone lese while driving for no reason at all.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Agreed. My mother is bad for this, the moment her phone "pings" she will cut off mid-sentence to read and reply to a message instantly, as if the message is going to disappear. She doesn't seem to see the irony of interrupting the flow of a face-to-face conversation in order to maintain the flow of a remote conversation

That's an interesting one.

My parents have only recently got a smartphone (in their early 80s) and to them it is very much a phone that does other stuff, rather than a really clever internet thingy that has a sideline in making and receiving phone calls. So, to their minds, they equate the smartphone to their landline phone, and if that rings of course you answer it straight away, so therefore any noise emanating from their new phone requires dealing with pronto.

I've tried explaining that text messages and WhatsApp messages are a bit more akin to a letter coming through the letterbox, and therefore don't require immediate attention, but then I remembered my dad is on his feet and heading for the front door as soon as he sees the postie walking up the path