Russia invades Ukraine

[AndyPJG]

Zero professionalism at that meeting from that reporter who fixated on a suit which then Trump/Vance & Co waded in on the back of that & did not shut up, their game plan worked but to what end?

MaybeProbably the reporter was planted/primed by the bully boys. :-/

 

[dangie]

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if the meeting had been held in Ukraine, on Zelensky’s home turf, rather than in Washington.

 

[87electric]

Zelenskyy was done up like a kipper. An away loss.
Still remarkable is that he was an actor/comedian in a tv show called “Servant Of The People” from 2015 to 2019 playing an absent minded history teacher who, as the plot unfolds, becomes elected as the Ukraine President. The last episode of 51 aired on March 28 2019, 3 days before he became the REAL President, elected as leader of the REAL party called…..Servant Of The People.
Had to share that. Am I the only one who did not know these strange facts?

 

[brad465]

With the way that the battlefield is evolving, it's very possible that Ukraine simply doesn't need American hardware. Their ability with drones are second to none, and with Ukraine able to strike deep into Russia with domestically-built hardware, perhaps it really is the case that they can do well with European hardware.

I think Ukraine could do a better job of communicating this capability, both verbally and in practice (by striking some very high profile targets and/or making a bigger deal of what they are currently striking). The US completely withdrawing will by all likelihood be a morale killer in Ukraine; if Zelensky and the core military can prove their drone and other domestic hardware show US aid is far less impactful than in the early stages of the war, this morale impact will be much lower.

 

[Giugiaro]

By seizing Taiwan, they would control TSMC, which effectively puts America in the Chinese grip.

Would it, though? Something tells me the factory would be left completely trashed. It's not like it's a natural resource.
China definitively prefers that the factory be rebuilt on the mainland rather than on an island in the middle of the ocean.

 

[wilbers]

MaybeProbably the reporter was planted/primed by the bully boys. :-/

Zelensky vs Trump | Reaction From The Rest Is Politics

What happened at the White House this evening between President Zelensky and President Trump? What will be the United States' role in the future of Russia's ...

www.youtube.com

No probably about it, and something else very odd before it even began of TASS being allowed in (even without security clearances), and AP not.

 

[Gloster]

Zelensky vs Trump | Reaction From The Rest Is Politics

What happened at the White House this evening between President Zelensky and President Trump? What will be the United States' role in the future of Russia's ...

www.youtube.com

No probably about it, and something else very odd before it even began of TASS being allowed in (even without security clearances), and AP not.

Hasn’t Trump banned AP from the Whitehouse because they continue to refer to the Gulf of Mexico by that name, rather than Trump’s preferred Gulf of Ignorance, sorry, America?

 

[wilbers]

"Does This Book 19th Century Foretell the Future?"

Does This Book 19th Century Foretell the Future?

Your source for everything about book collecting: rare & antiquarian books, book auctions, booksellers & collectors magazine, bibliography & more.

www.rarebookhub.com

While the answer is surely no, its rather disconcerting, Don is very close to Donald, and the location is bang on. Only found that because I'm a bookdealer and that site is one of the main ones to check prices at.

A book has been showing up in discussions on TikTok and other online social media sites. It is not a new book. It dates back to the 19th century. However, some people believe it foretold the future, it's writer another Nostradamus. The author was Ingersoll Lockwood, the book Baron Trump's Marvellous Underground Journey. It was published in 1893. Lockwood also wrote The Last President, published in 1896.

 

[Ivor]

MaybeProbably the reporter was planted/primed by the bully boys. :-/

Yep said similar on my post #8487 & I now conclude definately planted/primed.


UPDATE: This is him Brian Glenn (attached) a favourite reporter of Trump & seems to be a MAGA podcaster.

 

[Cdd89]

I feel I should start this response with a precursor, that the US would be wise to continue funding the war, which would be cheap at twice the price as a way of distracting Russia, wasting their time, and weakining them. Russia will not stop its expansionist beliefs, and it will put them into action as soon as it feels it can get away with it. The most optimistic outcome from continuing the stalemate remains regime change.

With that out of the way, if the aim is to end the war then I think it's pretty obvious that the purpose of the US behaviour in the meeting, as well as the repeating of Russian propaganda talking points, was to give Putin an off-ramp. Putin cannot end the war without telling Russia he's won.

Whether there was a way to do this without lying to the world and humiliating Zelenskyy, I don't know.

Trying to be more optimistic, whatever line he presents domestically (and whatever line Trump supports internationally), Putin must recognise the war has been a colossal failure. He has gained a tiny amount of territory, at the cost of huge numbers of lives, Finalnd and Sweden joining NATO, and the EU investing seriously in defence. My hope is that this private recognition of failure is what deters future invasions, along with the fact that warmer ties to the US makes that a better channel for airing grievances.

 

[najaB]

I feel I should start this response with a precursor, that the US would be wise to continue funding the war, which would be cheap at twice the price as a way of distracting Russia, wasting their time, and weakining them. Russia will not stop its expansionist beliefs, and it will put them into action as soon as it feels it can get away with it.

Were another person in charge in the US I would agree wholeheartedly, but the fact that the current administration is full of people who parrot the Kremlin line verbatim has convinced me that Trump's instruction goal is to advance a Russian victory.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Were another person in charge in the US I would agree wholeheartedly, but the fact that the current administration is full of people who parrot the Kremlin line verbatim has convinced me that Trump's instruction goal is to advance a Russian victory.

The interesting thing here is why Trump even wants a Russian victory in the first place. The war distracts from domestic issues, and every high profile weapons transfer to Ukraine allows him to bury yet another tax cut for the wealthy along with yet more wrongdoing on the part of his entourage.

As angry as I am at this entire situation, there is some evidence that European NATO members are doing more and more. Surveillance over the Black Sea is just as intense as ever, and now Turkiye (traditionally a favoured tourist destination of Ukrainians) is now starting to show that they may take more of an active part. Meanwhile, Mark Rutte has asked Zelenskyy to try and repair the relationship with the US, and I have a strong feeling that we might see a major, major European commitment to Ukraine in exchange for Zelenskyy giving Trump what he wants in terms of flattering his ego.

On an unrelated note, Ukrainian intelligence has said that Russia intends to decrease their recruitment to 350,000 this year. There's an analysis by the wonderful Stefan Korshak (Senior Defence Correspondent with the Kyiv Post) on Facebook where he uses his huge amount of knowledge to categorically state that this level of recruitment is simply not enough for Russia to actually move forward. While it's not a sign of collapse, he also points out that there are around 600,000 Russian troops in Ukraine and their daily attacks are becoming weaker and weaker. Russia isn't really fielding anything more than infantry, which are getting cut down by drones before they even reach the front lines.

I really don't think it's all doom and gloom, at least not from Ukraine's point of view. They may not have the strength to recover the occupied territories, but with potentially thousands of drones flying daily over the front lines to hunt and kill poorly-trained and equipped Russians infantry, with Ukraine constantly modifying the drones to combat Russian anti-drone warfare, it's very possible that Russia will have simply nothing left but 'infantry', i.e. poorly trained and equipped forces who are nothing more than cannon fodder.

 

[AlterEgo]

I feel I should start this response with a precursor, that the US would be wise to continue funding the war, which would be cheap at twice the price as a way of distracting Russia, wasting their time, and weakining them. Russia will not stop its expansionist beliefs, and it will put them into action as soon as it feels it can get away with it. The most optimistic outcome from continuing the stalemate remains regime change.

With that out of the way, if the aim is to end the war then I think it's pretty obvious that the purpose of the US behaviour in the meeting, as well as the repeating of Russian propaganda talking points, was to give Putin an off-ramp. Putin cannot end the war without telling Russia he's won.

Whether there was a way to do this without lying to the world and humiliating Zelenskyy, I don't know.

Trying to be more optimistic, whatever line he presents domestically (and whatever line Trump supports internationally), Putin must recognise the war has been a colossal failure. He has gained a tiny amount of territory, at the cost of huge numbers of lives, Finalnd and Sweden joining NATO, and the EU investing seriously in defence. My hope is that this private recognition of failure is what deters future invasions, along with the fact that warmer ties to the US makes that a better channel for airing grievances.

There’s no 4D chess going on here. China is watching the appeasement of Russia with interest as it constantly takes the temperature of international reaction to revanchism.

It’s extremely unlikely Russia will have to cede any territory it has taken. The issue now is Russia’s economy is on a war footing and this in itself will increase the risk of future invasions. Yes, the Russians have depleted manpower and materiel, but they won’t for very long.

 

[coppercapped]

SNIP

If I were Xi, I would do two things right now:

- Attack Taiwan immediately, taking advantage of Trump's rock bottom reputation. By seizing Taiwan, they would control TSMC, which effectively puts America in the Chinese grip.

Although TSMC's HQ is in Taiwan (obviously!) not all of its fabrication plants are there. It has two plants in Japan (although these do not produce chips at the smallest feature sizes used in mobile phones and the like), two in the USA which do make chips with the 4 and 5 nanometre design features and one plant in Dresden. But more than half of TSMC's total capacity is in Taiwan.

The other thing is that the critical technology for the fabrication plants is the ultra-violet light lithography equipment which all comes from ASM in the Netherlands https://www.asm.com/our-company In turn there is only one manufacturer of the highly accurate mirrors used for focussing the UV light in this equipment and that is Zeiss in Germany. Many chip designs use the design libraries developed by ARM based in Cambridge in the UK, https://www.arm.com

So although the loss of the TSMC fabs in Taiwan would hurt, and badly in the short and medium term, not all would be lost as the knowledge about the manufacturing processes and equipment exists outside Taiwan.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Well well well. Haltbakk Bunkers, an fuel provider to the American forces in Norway, has turned round and point blank said that they will no longer supply the American forces. The image attached below shows the full message, but the gist of it is that they felt sick by the show in the White House.

It’s extremely unlikely Russia will have to cede any territory it has taken. The issue now is Russia’s economy is on a war footing and this in itself will increase the risk of future invasions. Yes, the Russians have depleted manpower and materiel, but they won’t for very long.

The question is whether Russia can actually hang onto that territory. Ukraine is not in danger, and Ukraine will get better and better at producing ingenious, low-cost tactics that tear through Russian support infrastructure. If they only need (for instance) 20 drones at a cost of ~$20k to ruin several million dollars worth of Russian military hardware, Russia simply won't be able to finance the costs of maintaining the occupation.

Regarding manpower: they still have plenty in reserves, but Putin appears to be desperate to avoid using European Russians in this war, probably because coffins in Moscow are completely different to coffins is Siberia.

 

[Annetts key]

One question is who benefits from the actions of Trump and his administration?
Earlier I watched this video:

This is an American media and news company and this the the question that this presenter asks as she goes through clips of videos of Trump and his answers about talking to Putin and then changes that his administration has made since they took power.

But the real question is, what does Trump get out of this?

 

[Ghostbus]

Is Trump derangement syndrome so bad that people want to seriously claim Trump is enabling a Russian "victory" in this push for a peace deal?

Putin wanted to take the whole country, remember. Probably spotting an opportunity as a result of Biden and NATO's absolute pathetic performance in Afghanistan in the cause of collective European security. Trillions wasted, for absolutely nothing. Literally nothing. And still people tried to blame Trump. Biden must be preserved. Democracy must be protected. We must end forever wars. Doesn't matter if we lose. If we look like complete and total losers. It will not harm us. We are strong. Powerful. Fear us.

Yeah, OK, Putin must have thought to himself.

Failing a full scale invasion, then Putin wanted absolute dominance of the east. Failing that, he wanted strategic control of key ports and a significant portion of the Ukranian economy. Failing that he wanted to demoralise the Ukrainian people and end their will to fight. And he absolutely positively didn't want Ukranian troops on Russian soil or their missiles hitting targets deep in Russian territory.

He has failed on every count. NATO didn't really do that, or at least hasn't been the driving force. Biden dragged his feet. Tried to use Ukraine for his domestic benefit, to continue the policy of the toxification of the Gulf of Mexica. An inconvenient fact for Democrats, one of many that undercut their claims to be any better than the isolationist and transactional Trump.

So it's truly laughable anyone thinks Trump is enabling a Russian victory. At worst, he's preventing the conflict becoming a domestic security threat to Russia. But would that be such a bad thing for the west?

Revolutions to overthrow dictators are a poor means of securing peace for the west. Especially when we sit back and adopt a policy of non-inteference. As we basically did when Putin rose to power and decided he was better off pursuing a policy of authoritianism and aggression.

We know what Putin is about. If he was a homicidal maniac, we'd know it by now. You could tell, because your fingernails would be falling out due to radiation poisoning. He's a man desperate to cling to power. We can use that to our advantage.

The Ukrainians aren't winning but neither is Putin. They can tell Trump to go jump in a lake if they don't like his peace deal. Tell him they're going to keep fighting. What's Trump going to do about it? Nothing. Only in the minds of the truly Trump deranged is Trump going to actually help Putin defeat Ukraine. Trump would actually probably respect that kind of tough negotiating stance, to the detriment of Putin's current aims.

 

[Mogster]

I think Starmer may well be having some very, very serious meetings right now with some of the very best defence minds in the country. This is not just "get stuffed, Trump", but a serious question about whether the UK can actually afford to rely on America. At this precise moment, if I were Starmer, I'd be calling Macron and asking him for a very urgent chat about the possibility of using French nuclear weapons technology in the Trident replacement, with a plan to develop (in the medium term) an independent launch platform, perhaps in cooperation with Poland through a nuclear-sharing deal.

Expensive? Very. But cheaper than relying on America, who may well sabotage our nuclear launch platform in a fit of rage.



I also think that it might not be a terrible idea to simply tell the Americans to leave. Russia is no threat to Europe, and Europe (with Ukrainian drone know-how) can easily turn the weaker borders into killing fields should they get any ideas. We can also mine the borders quickly and easily, while simultaneously blocking off all access to/from Russia and Belarus. Perhaps one corridor could remain for humanitarian reasons, but other than that, let's fortify the borders.

The Americans will certainly have severe problems if we start cutting the cord. They rely heavily on assets such as the spy station in Ayios Nikolaos (SBA Dhekelia on the island of Cyprus), and without these assets, America will start to have really big problems. Likewise, cut off Starlink completely from the EU, as well as known propaganda platforms like Twitter, Rumble, etc.

Let them feel the pain. If they want to come back, they're going to have to offer a lot more than they do now. Oh, and their defence contractors? Well, obviously there can be no more expensive contracts for American weapons systems. We might not be able to create truly cutting-edge weapons in the short term, but we can certainly create weapons that will do large amounts of damage.



I've been reading quite a few independent analyses of the situation with drones, and they all are absolutely clear: Ukraine is building a drone production capability that is frankly frightening. They are developing so many things that Russia simply cannot counter them all, and this drone warfare capability is likely to become in huge demand in coming years because they've got tried and tested battlefield products. It seems that what's actually happening in Donetsk is that Ukraine isn't really engaging the Russians on the battlefield, but rather they're letting the Russians come forward, get blown to pieces with drone warfare, the Russians suffer dreadful losses when moving forward, and meanwhile the Ukrainians are retreating tactically while incurring relatively few losses.

Trump, I think, simply doesn't understand exactly where Ukraine is right now. With a new German chancellor who will be absolutely determined to kickstart German industrial capabilities, the UK with a new commitment to spend, spend and spend on defence, and countries like Poland who are willing to spend big, there is every possibility that Ukraine will do a deal with the EU/EEA/CH/UK for their resources rather than America. If that happens, and Europe starts to develop some serious military-industrial capabilities, America might be in real trouble, and so will their politicians in marginal seats.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Feb 2025 ==



I would give him the benefit of the doubt here.The UK support for Ukraine is not in any doubt, and it may well be that the UK top brass are telling Trump's goons that they either sort this situation out or the UK will be going for deeper European cooperation at the expense of the US. The Americans are relying heavily on our assets in various places, and if they're booted out, it will hurt them immensely.

Unlike many other European countries, we can make life very difficult for the American military and other agencies.

I’m not sure I buy the drone story, there are reports of jamming rendering them useless for periods. According to the article below, and many other reports, Ukraine has been pinning the Russians with artillery, lots of artillery. 80% of casualties on either side are being caused by artillery. You can’t jam an artillery shell either. This isn’t too surprising as it’s similar to WW1 and WW2. Ukraine has been firing 10,000 rounds per day and Ukrainian casualties seem to be inversely proportional to the quantities of 155mm (and Russian equivalent for Ukraine’s Russian guns still operating) available.

Early in the war, the U.S. and its allies pledged to help Ukraine replace its legacy Soviet-era guns, which use a different caliber of ammunition. By the end of last year, Ukraine’s supplies of Soviet artillery shells – its standard long-range caliber measuring 152mm in diameter – had been nearly exhausted. The dramatic production shortfalls of the comparable Western 155mm shell, coupled with the insatiable need of Ukrainian forces for ordnance, has meant the U.S. has sought the munition from other nations and has needed to draw substantially from its own stockpile.

How many 155mm shells the U.S. has in reserve is classified. But the Army, which made fewer than 3,000 shells per month in the mid-2010s, says it is now producing about 36,000 shells a month. To help the Army reach its goal of making 100,000 shells per month by late 2025, Congress recently approved $6 billion to produce new shells, upgrade old factories and build new ammunition plants.

Whether those efforts will prove too little and too late to halt Russian offensives remains in question. What’s clear is that, while Moscow was able to quickly pivot to a war economy and source shells from allies, the shortages have already left Ukraine painfully outgunned.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/ukraine-crisis-artillery/

If the US halts arms deliveries to Ukraine then where is all this Western ammo going to come from?

If Europe does tell the US to leave then European countries have to be prepared to cover the capabilities the US provides currently. That’s going to be very expensive. At times the US has more frontline aircraft deployed to the UK and Germany than those countries have available in their own airforces.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The interesting thing here is why Trump even wants a Russian victory in the first place.

Because depending on how you much good faith you want to believe he has, either he has fully bought in on Russian propaganda or he is compromised by Russia / the KGB.

Putin wanted to take the whole country, remember.

And give him a ceasefire but allow him to keep the land currently occupied and you just give him time to rebuild up his forces to continue the aim of taking the whole country.

If he was a homicidal maniac, we'd know it by now.

Errrrr.

You could tell, because your fingernails would be falling out due to radiation poisoning

This person authorised (possibly ordered) and attack in the UK that literally involved murdering someone with radioactive substances without any consideration for the consequences or any possible impact on British citizens.

 

[Cdd89]

The issue now is Russia’s economy is on a war footing and this in itself will increase the risk of future invasions. Yes, the Russians have depleted manpower and materiel, but they won’t for very long.

This is true, but if Russia repeats an invasion in the near future Trump will look extremely stupid indeed — he has staked his reputation on this not happening. Now it may be that he has miscalculated (or less charitably, is used to looking extremely stupid ), but I do think this is the play here.

China is watching the appeasement of Russia with interest as it constantly takes the temperature of international reaction to revanchism.

I am not sure the appeasement of Russia tells us much either way about China. Remember that the US DoS website was amended a couple of weeks ago to remove the explicit statement of independence re Taiwan, so it feels like they’re trying to keep the strategic ambiguity going there. And of course, one can make the counterargument that China was most likely to act a few years ago while the west was distracted with Russia. The West imposing sanctions on China was never credible.

 

[WelshBluebird]

This is true, but if Russia repeats an invasion in the near future Trump will look extremely stupid indeed — he has staked his reputation on this not happening. Now it may be that he has miscalculated (or less charitably, is used to looking extremely stupid ), but I do think this is the play here.

The same Russia who:

• Signed the Budapest Memorandum and has since gone back on it.
• Invaded Ukraine in 2014 and successfully annexed part of it.
• Has invaded Ukraine again and has since occupied significantly territories since 2022.

Why on earth would you trust them to not try to invade yet again?

 

[Cdd89]

Why on earth would you trust them to not try to invade yet again?

It’s not a question of trust, it’s that I think the incentives are there. The first two operations in your list didn’t end in objective failure for Russia. The third absolutely has (even though Trump is helping him spin it as success), and likely would again if the US got seriously involved.

There’s also Trump’s ego: if you were Putin, would you like to bet on Trump’s reaction to another unjustifiable invasion that makes him look like an idiot and destroys his much-lauded peace? His reaction could be nuclear (I’m just speaking metaphorically here - I hope!)

So I think the chances are very low while Trump, or someone equally volatile, is in power. Obviously this is (hopefully) not going to be the case forever, so future sensible will need to consider how to deter Russia; Biden clearly didn’t make the invasion seem risky enough to deter Putin.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The same Russia who:

• Signed the Budapest Memorandum and has since gone back on it.
• Invaded Ukraine in 2014 and successfully annexed part of it.
• Has invaded Ukraine again and has since occupied significantly territories since 2022.

Why on earth would you trust them to not try to invade yet again?

You wouldn't and there are plenty of others in the annals of history to reinforce that which is why the UN and NATO came about but both those institutions now look impotent so who knows.

 

[philosopher]

It’s extremely unlikely Russia will have to cede any territory it has taken. The issue now is Russia’s economy is on a war footing and this in itself will increase the risk of future invasions. Yes, the Russians have depleted manpower and materiel, but they won’t for very long.

Realistically, I can’t see Ukraine getting much of its conquered territory back. Putin would very unlikely accept a peace deal that returns significant land to Ukraine. The focus therefore should be making any Russian ‘victory’ as pyrrhic as possible, to weaken Russia which would reduce them from launching any further invasions.

I do not think without US support Ukraine has the capability to retake it‘s conquered territory, however I do think with European military and financial support it can hold the current frontline while at the same depleting Russia’s military and economic strength.

 

[Cloud Strife]

But the real question is, what does Trump get out of this?

This is the question that no-one really has a satisfactory answer for.

Because depending on how you much good faith you want to believe he has, either he has fully bought in on Russian propaganda or he is compromised by Russia / the KGB.

I honestly don't have any better answers than these two above. The only other plausible thing I can think of is that Trump simply wants what Putin has: a huge amount of stolen money, a huge amount of power and the ability to remove enemies permanently. He's lived a very sheltered life, and it's quite possible that he sees a situation where Russia takes over more of Europe, he takes over the other half after using the Supreme Court to throw out the 22nd Amendment, and he rules by decree.

but both those institutions now look impotent so who knows.

NATO aren't impotent at the minute. They're doing a hell of a lot within NATO structures to support Ukraine, and they're getting a lot of military practice in a real life conflict without risking lives of NATO forces. The collective security guarantee is under strain, but it hasn't broken.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Mar 2025 ==

Realistically, I can’t see Ukraine getting much of its conquered territory back. Putin would very unlikely accept a peace deal that returns significant land to Ukraine. The focus therefore should be making any Russian ‘victory’ as pyrrhic as possible, to weaken Russia which would reduce them from launching any further invasions.

Some of the front lines are weaker than others, especially west of Donetsk. It's going to be very tough to move south from Kherson, and the lines south of Zaporizhzhia are also probably a no-go without solid air support. But at the same time, Kursk has shown that the Russian border is weak, and Ukraine is perfectly capable of launching lightning attacks, fortifying the new front line and then digging in for a prolonged period of time.

 

[dangie]

We all know what Trump is like, but something this has shown, is just what a nasty bit of work Vance is. Up to a point he may be dancing to Trump's tune, but it doesn't excuse how he treated and spoke to Zelenskyy. Of course he was in his own playground and had big brother Trump at his side to back him up.

 

[Annetts key]

To maintain the defence of a front line, as Ukraine knows, you don't just need fortifications. You also need personnel, food, water, weapons and ammo for them. To get the supplies to them you need logistics, that is transport for them.

Ukraine is using drones to fly behind the front lines and attack the logistics of the Russian army as well as attacking reserve troops heading towards the front line. It is perfectly possible that at some point, somewhere along the front, Russia will be unable to continue to defend the front line due to a lack of personnel or supplies for them. If there isn’t much in the way of Russian reserves nearby to plug the gap, who knows what could happen...

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

We all know what Trump is like, but something this has shown, is just what a nasty bit of work Vance is. Up to a point he may be dancing to Trump's tune, but it doesn't excuse how he treated and spoke to Zelenskyy. Of course he was in his own playground and had big brother Trump at his side to back him up.

Did Trump want it to play out this way though he likes to do the deal but is savvy enough to see another opportunity present itself and take it to boost his ratings. This was just an episode of the Apprentice in his mind.

 

[Strathclyder]

We all know what Trump is like, but something this has shown, is just what a nasty bit of work Vance is. Up to a point he may be dancing to Trump's tune, but it doesn't excuse how he treated and spoke to Zelenskyy. Of course he was in his own playground and had big brother Trump at his side to back him up.

Typical bully/thuggish behavior, if Trump wasn't there we wouldn't have heard a peep out of him, let alone that condescending drivel we all saw and heard yesterday. Vance is, and always has been, a opportunistic, smarmy, self-serving little weasel who switches sides whenever he thinks it will benefit him, just like every other Republican bootlicker over the past decade or so. Nothing new there in the grand scheme of things, but that performance was broadcast to the world, so it's now global knowledge what a POW Vance truly is.

I only saw one genuine world leader in the Oval Office yesterday, and it wasn't those two cretinous wastes of oxygen we're forced to acknowledge as the leaders of the US.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Nothing new there in the grand scheme of things, but that performance was broadcast to the world, so it's now global knowledge what a POW Vance truly is.

To be honest, I'd like to see a kind of cordon sanitaire erected around him, with it being made clear that he's not welcome and not invited to any sort of talks. Freeze him completely out of the big table, and tell Trump that he can either go with it or he won't be invited either.

As a random aside, I wonder how long Trump's assets in the UK will remain assets. Things like golf courses only work as long as they're playable, and it doesn't take particularly much to cause serious damage to a course. Most courses are open to the public and not secured, and I cannot imagine (for instance) Police Scotland putting a lot of effort into finding who might have destroyed the fairways.