Being real, who's to say that in 15 years, they won't just rebrand it to British Rail? Once it's fully up and running (and hopefully thriving) the name going to BR could be a move. Then again, I don't know, my crystal ball is in for repairs.
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Great British Railways: Branding options?
- Thread starter Sad Sprinter
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Sad Sprinter
Established Member
British Rail is a far better name than GBR. If British Rail didnt already exist, then GBR might be more attractive. But considering there is a simpler, catchier alternative that's still in the public lexicon (my grandad still calls it British Rail and on occasion has referred to Network SouthEast), British Rail just makes sense.
National Rail is associated with privatisation. It's also not national as it doesn't serve NI. Many people will drop the 'Great' and just call it British Rail, just like I still occasionally hear 'Inland Revenue' and even 'London Transport'.
I thought I had replied to this... Privatisation of all our infrastructure was also ideological; not many political decisions haven't been. Not having countless numbers of websites and points of contact is a benefit to the passenger. Just reducing that, makes life simpler. To the disappointment to Trainline, a single system for ticketing is back on the cards because that's entirely sensible for any railway.
Branding has benefits, of course it does. But too many also has disadvantages and a country as small as England does not need 15 or whatever the number is.
I thought I had replied to this... Privatisation of all our infrastructure was also ideological; not many political decisions haven't been. Not having countless numbers of websites and points of contact is a benefit to the passenger. Just reducing that, makes life simpler. To the disappointment to Trainline, a single system for ticketing is back on the cards because that's entirely sensible for any railway.
Branding has benefits, of course it does. But too many also has disadvantages and a country as small as England does not need 15 or whatever the number is.
Cardiff123
Established Member
- Joined
- 10 Mar 2013
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- 1,449
With TfW as the overarching brand for all trains & buses in Wales, ScotRail in Scotland and TfL for all public transport in London, here's the latest evidence that GBR is going to be far from one unified brand for all rail services across Britain
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
Andy Burnham wants to run Greater Manchester’s railways, here's everything you need to know
It's the mayor's new transport mega-project - but what does it mean for you?
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
With TfW as the overarching brand for all trains & buses in Wales, ScotRail in Scotland and TfL for all public transport in London, here's the latest evidence that GBR is going to be far from one unified brand for all rail services across Britain
Andy Burnham wants to run Greater Manchester’s railways, here's everything you need to know
It's the mayor's new transport mega-project - but what does it mean for you?
But it will be a unified brand. You’re still going to buy GBR tickets and travel on GBR trains to London etc from devolved areas
ollyexe2808
Member
Exactly this....I know we still don't know exactly how the brand guidance/format is going to take place but I can see something similar to DB in Germany - a unified national brand but with local/regional control over some services with local branding to match. It may well be the best way to do it - you will know you are on the English network by an overarching brand, but there will be local differences.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Bee Network by Great British Railways or the likes is very likely. That's how it basically was in BR days - trains carried both Regional Railways and the local branding.
As nationalisation of it in the first place was (in the case of railways).
Wivenswold
Established Member
The important element for passengers will an easier fares structure and a holistic approach to looking after passengers when the service goes bad, one that doesn't mean you have to pay any additional fares because one of the trains on your journey was delayed or cancelled.
Beyond that, I can't see a problem with PTEs and the devolved areas having their own branding with BR logo on it. It worked fine after sectorisation in the 80s.
I'm personally in favour of reverting back to the Provinicial/Inter-City/Network South East split with each line within those sectors being allowed to make changes to the branding to give services some element of local identity. I'm looking forward to traveling on GBR Network South East - Greater Anglia.
Beyond that, I can't see a problem with PTEs and the devolved areas having their own branding with BR logo on it. It worked fine after sectorisation in the 80s.
I'm personally in favour of reverting back to the Provinicial/Inter-City/Network South East split with each line within those sectors being allowed to make changes to the branding to give services some element of local identity. I'm looking forward to traveling on GBR Network South East - Greater Anglia.
Masbroughlad
Established Member
The GBR branding will be with us in a couple of months, according to The Times:
www.thetimes.com
Great British Railways brand to appear on trains from May
The new logo featuring the Union Jack will be unveiled on the first trains to be fully nationalised under the Labour government
www.thetimes.com
Wish I had a crystal ball to look 5 or 10 years into the future!
Last edited by a moderator:
Interesting. I did note "no repainting yet but there will be a new livery". Assuming this is either an error or vinyls will be involved.The GBR branding will be with us in a couple of months, according to The Times:
Great British Railways brand to appear on trains from May
The new logo featuring the Union Jack will be unveiled on the first trains to be fully nationalised under the Labour government
Wish I had a crystal ball to look 5 or 10 years into the future!
irish_rail
On Moderation
Too me , that new union jack logo just looks a blurred mess from a distance. What on earth is wrong with plain old double arrow without a daft background???
Seagull2006
Member
I wonder if the GBR branding will also appear on Northern, Southeastern & TPE then
signed
Established Member
I find that a dark green, alike to GWR would fit GBR great. Green has always been represented on British cars throughout history and it looks classy and modern
The logo should be unchanged (I know they changed the angles slightly). Trying to add a background just loses the recognisable bit and I get they want it to look a bit like a flag but in my opinion it doesn't work.
This is about as bad as the ever changing style guides for signs. No doubt they'll be tweaking the logo every time they roll it out for a new area/former TOC.
This is about as bad as the ever changing style guides for signs. No doubt they'll be tweaking the logo every time they roll it out for a new area/former TOC.
RailWonderer
Established Member
This could be a great opportunity to introduce a strong BR brand with little souvenir shops at stations like Kings Cross with pencilcases, books, clocks and such in BR colours and branding to make some money, even if little, off a consistent brand. What I want to see is consistency across the network with liveries across fleets, and branding all over, but so far the branding and fonts look very bland, generic and dull.The GBR branding will be with us in a couple of months, according to The Times:
Great British Railways brand to appear on trains from May
The new logo featuring the Union Jack will be unveiled on the first trains to be fully nationalised under the Labour government
Wish I had a crystal ball to look 5 or 10 years into the future!
I wonder if each operator will have their branding in a standardised font next to the BR logo and livery and how each integrates. Greater Anglia is being retained so far, but it's likely the Avanti name will be dropped, I imagine to something generic like 'West Coast'.
Don't think that image is the one to be used thankfully.
Thank God.
I am so excited!!! We're finally getting a livery soon! I'm almost certain the double arrow with the blue background will not be used - pretty sure I saw that confirmed as not the logo. Of course, this means I expect LNER, Northern, TPE, Southeastern, and SWR trains to start being debranded. Would it put a stop to c2c's new livery for the 357s?
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Is someone able to put the article’s contents in quote tags here please? 
Class15
Established Member
Seconded.Is someone able to put the article’s contents in quote tags here please?
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
As someone that’s currently sat on an Amtrak train as we speak, I must say I’m looking forward to seeing a unified branding. Works well over here.
Spire Sam
Member
It does certainly seem silly to be repainting fleets if in a couple of years they'll be repainted again as part of GBR. Does that article specifically say repainting/ a new livery or could it be something like a GBR logo added alongside existing branding?
ollyexe2808
Member
Some quotes from the full article:
“We want to usher in a genuinely new era and make it feel different,” a Whitehall source said. “It’s about restoring pride in the railways, a bit like we do towards Team GB at the Olympics.”
Precisely how different the train network will look will depend on the amount of funding levels the Department for Transport receives from the Treasury. Officials have a sliding scale of options, which could include new Great British Railways uniforms, caps and high-viz jackets.
Ministers are understood to have learnt from Greater Manchester mayor Andy Burnham, who repainted the city’s buses yellow when he brought in Transport for London-style franchised services in 2023. Sources claimed that patronage increased almost overnight once Burnham changed the colour."
"The trains themselves are unlikely to be repainted due to cost constraints, sources said. Instead, the current branding will be removed and replaced with a livery that could include the white, red and blue of the Union Jack.
Sources confirmed that the logo will be different to a Great British Railways logo that was registered with the Intellectual Property Office’s online trade marks journal under a previous Conservative government."
“We want to usher in a genuinely new era and make it feel different,” a Whitehall source said. “It’s about restoring pride in the railways, a bit like we do towards Team GB at the Olympics.”
Precisely how different the train network will look will depend on the amount of funding levels the Department for Transport receives from the Treasury. Officials have a sliding scale of options, which could include new Great British Railways uniforms, caps and high-viz jackets.
Ministers are understood to have learnt from Greater Manchester mayor Andy Burnham, who repainted the city’s buses yellow when he brought in Transport for London-style franchised services in 2023. Sources claimed that patronage increased almost overnight once Burnham changed the colour."
"The trains themselves are unlikely to be repainted due to cost constraints, sources said. Instead, the current branding will be removed and replaced with a livery that could include the white, red and blue of the Union Jack.
Sources confirmed that the logo will be different to a Great British Railways logo that was registered with the Intellectual Property Office’s online trade marks journal under a previous Conservative government."
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
A new GBR logo might initially only apply to the DFTO operations (ie Northern, TPE, LNER and Southeastern), plus other TOCs as they join DFTO.
The current individual TOCs might not disappear, at least not until the GBR legislation has Royal Assent (end-2026?).
I expect a GBR "blob" will be added to DFTO trains, alongside the existing livery.
The first date when a new "GBR" train gets rolled out is some way away, with LNER's CAF fleet possibly the first.
TfL's EL extras don't count, and neither does the recently-ordered FirstGroup 80x fleet.
There's a lot more to GBR identity than what is painted on trains, including all the infrastructure currently under NR, and all the TOC web sites.
Peter Hendy is on record (to the Transport Select Committee) as saying the railway will be aligned on its major routes, which is different from geographic regions and also from business sectors.
He also seems to be the main driving force behind the GBR legislation and organisational changes.
The current individual TOCs might not disappear, at least not until the GBR legislation has Royal Assent (end-2026?).
I expect a GBR "blob" will be added to DFTO trains, alongside the existing livery.
The first date when a new "GBR" train gets rolled out is some way away, with LNER's CAF fleet possibly the first.
TfL's EL extras don't count, and neither does the recently-ordered FirstGroup 80x fleet.
There's a lot more to GBR identity than what is painted on trains, including all the infrastructure currently under NR, and all the TOC web sites.
Peter Hendy is on record (to the Transport Select Committee) as saying the railway will be aligned on its major routes, which is different from geographic regions and also from business sectors.
He also seems to be the main driving force behind the GBR legislation and organisational changes.
BrakeCoach
Member
Despite their efforts to renew regionalization (not just devolution but division by regions), I would say sectorization still has huge merits to it. A "metro" sector for suburban trains in and out of London for example would be good. It makes sense for some form of Intercity and Network Southeast to be revived.
There's a likelihood that other stock will need a repainting before 2027 due to anticorrosion requirements or because they are in a poor condition currently.