NET (Nottingham) Tram Discussion

[tram21]

To kick things off with a thread regarding NET Tram operations, as there isn't currently one:

A rail break at Nottingham Station is causing disruption this evening, with no service between Nottingham Station and Old Market Square. The disruption began right at the start of peak service, affecting many people including my journey. I'd be surprised if it's fixed this evening, but we'll see...

This is the 5th rail break in the UK this week, with Sheffield and Manchester having two each. Must be the cold temperatures!
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/162DLroqfo/

Due to an issue with the track at Nottingham Station, we will have no service between Old Market Square and Nottingham Station. This will likely continue for the rest of the evening. Trams for Toton Lane and Clifton South will depart from Nottingham Station. Trams for Hucknall will depart from the opposite platform at Old Market Square. Trams for Phoenix Park will depart from the opposite platform at the Royal Centre tram stop. NCT Green Line buses are accepting tickets between Old Market Square and Nottingham Station. We'll keep you posted on any updates

In other news, looks like engineering works are coming up at Wilford Lane, with the ballast having been damaged there from flooding.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c04nl034310o

Nottingham's tram operator has been left with a large clean-up bill after flood water and sewage spilled on to part of its network of track.

Nottingham Express Transit (NET) said the track near the Wilford Lane tram stop flooded during heavy rain at the beginning of January.

NET told the Local Democracy Reporting Service water had risen up from the drains and contaminated ballast stones, which support the track.

The operator estimated it would cost between £100,000 and £200,000 to replace the ballast.

Planned engineering works are also taking place later this month, fixing a broken point at Wilkinson Street which currently has a 5kph speed restriction.

https://www.thetram.net/planned-maintenance

Wilkinson Street Track Work
Sunday 26th January - Normal service resumes Monday 27th January
On Sunday the 26th of January, we'll be carrying out some track works near the Wilkinson Street tram stop. During this time, there will be no tram service between Wilkison Street and the Forest. A replacement bus service will be operating every 10 minutes between the two park-and-ride sites. For more detailed information, please see below:

 

[MCR247]

Further issues this morning - initially a power outage between Uniiversity of Nottingham and Toton Lane but now also Ruddington Lane - Clifton South is also out of action

 

[tram21]

We start this morning with severe delays to service, with trams every 12 minutes.

The reason said is a technical issue with the fleet. I wonder if all trams of one type have been temporarily withdrawn? It would have to be Incentros probably to maintain the 12 minute service with Citadis units.

I'll see if I can find anything more out!

 

[trentbartonfan]

We start this morning with severe delays to service, with trams every 12 minutes.

The reason said is a technical issue with the fleet. I wonder if all trams of one type have been temporarily withdrawn? It would have to be Incentros probably to maintain the 12 minute service with Citadis units.

I'll see if I can find anything more out!

I remember in one summer something similar happened (2022?) and all Incentros were withdrawn for a day. Most likely due to the extreme heat the units can build during the summer.

 

[tram21]

I remember in one summer something similar happened (2022?) and all Incentros were withdrawn for a day. Most likely due to the extreme heat the units can build during the summer.

That's right, it was just too hot to run the trams which kept experiencing failed air-con.

For the above mentioned technical issues, it involved both fleets and was a sanding issue in the depot.

 

[59CosG95]

This is a Reach article, so season with salt accordingly:

Tram extension takes huge step forward as 3 locations identified

A major £300,000 study has been announced to look at the best locations for the extension of the network

www.nottinghampost.com

 

[trentbartonfan]

This is a Reach article, so season with salt accordingly:

Tram extension takes huge step forward as 3 locations identified

A major £300,000 study has been announced to look at the best locations for the extension of the network

www.nottinghampost.com

In my opinion, (if any of this is true) I think that the Long Eaton option is probably the most viable. That being said, it is extremely hard to get support for these projects from residents.

 

[tram21]

In my opinion, (if any of this is true) I think that the Long Eaton option is probably the most viable. That being said, it is extremely hard to get support for these projects from residents.

I tend to agree, although Gedling has been the most talked about for a long time.

 

[StoneRoad]

Was quite impressed with NET, reminded me a little of the Paris system without the "mind the doors tone"
I was there for a midweek conference and did most of the associated "commuting" by tram.
The discounted "day ticket" was convenient.

Only incident was a near miss with a car having to reverse sharpish to avoid being pranged at a junction. Tram stopped rather abruptly and as a result several passengers gave the car driver a single/two fingered salute.

 

[tram21]

Only incident was a near miss with a car having to reverse sharpish to avoid being pranged at a junction. Tram stopped rather abruptly and as a result several passengers gave the car driver a single/two fingered salute.

Can you remember where this was? Only because I was on a tram recently where a similar thing happened!

You always get some silly drivers and pedestrians around the tramway- just today a lorry tried to pull out in front of the tram and only narrowly missed us!

 

[duffield]

Was quite impressed with NET, reminded me a little of the Paris system without the "mind the doors tone"
I was there for a midweek conference and did most of the associated "commuting" by tram.
The discounted "day ticket" was convenient.

Only incident was a near miss with a car having to reverse sharpish to avoid being pranged at a junction. Tram stopped rather abruptly and as a result several passengers gave the car driver a single/two fingered salute.

Particularly when the tram was new to Nottingham, we used to get instances of a driver hanging out of a side road obstructing the track and signalling furiously to the tram driver to "go around", causing some hilarity amongst the passengers. And by the time they had realised that wasn't actually physically possible, another driver would have closed up the gap behind them, making it impossible for them to reverse...

Anyhow, an extension to Long Eaton would seem to make sense, looks like a viable route would be around 2 miles from the current end of the line at Toton park & ride.

 

[edwin_m]

In my opinion, (if any of this is true) I think that the Long Eaton option is probably the most viable. That being said, it is extremely hard to get support for these projects from residents.

Long Eaton was originally going to be an extension from Toton, but without the HS2 station I doubt that makes sense any more especially if Chetwynd is now the main objective in that area. A new junction somewhere around the college campus west of Beeston looks like the most suitable jumping off point for the Chetwynd development, which could continue to Long Eaton subject to need and more funding.

 

[DDB]

The extention from Clifton South to the new Fairham development seems the simplest and therefore cheapest as there should be nothing in the way.
People might get overexcited and dream of continuing to the airport but that is a long, long way away.

 

[duffield]

Long Eaton was originally going to be an extension from Toton, but without the HS2 station I doubt that makes sense any more especially if Chetwynd is now the main objective in that area. A new junction somewhere around the college campus west of Beeston looks like the most suitable jumping off point for the Chetwynd development, which could continue to Long Eaton subject to need and more funding.

Awkward to operate though, if you have a short branch off near the end of the existing line. Do you cut the service to the park & ride in half with alternate services to Chetwynd? Or have a triangular junction and run a service up to Toton, then reverse, go to Chetwynd, then reverse again to go into Nottingham (or the other way round)? Or do you up the frequency to give both the same service as Toton gets, with more trams required and possible capacity issues through the core?

In comparison Fairham pastures looks like a breeze, half a mile or less on the end of the existing Clifton line through open country with no on street running and just a couple of minor road crossing.

 

[ChrisC]

The extention from Clifton South to the new Fairham development seems the simplest and therefore cheapest as there should be nothing in the way.
People might get overexcited and dream of continuing to the airport but that is a long, long way away.

The extension from Clifton South to Fairham does seem the most sensible and least expensive. There’s no mention this time of extending a couple of miles north of Hucknall to the new Top Wighay development where the new County Council offices are currently being built. Also no mention of an extension beyond Phoenix Park towards Kimberley and Eastwood. Gedling has always been a possibility and running via Nottingham Race Course, the Teal Park Development and into Gedling Village along the route of the old Gedling Colliery railway line. It‘s probably the least expensive way of reaching Gedling but a long way round and will be difficult to compete with bus timings.

 

[59CosG95]

Long Eaton was originally going to be an extension from Toton, but without the HS2 station I doubt that makes sense any more especially if Chetwynd is now the main objective in that area. A new junction somewhere around the college campus west of Beeston looks like the most suitable jumping off point for the Chetwynd development, which could continue to Long Eaton subject to need and more funding.

Something along the lines of this, perhaps?

I've sketched 2 possible routes, both of which use Chetwynd Rd and the B6464 High Rd (from where the Central College Tram Stop is).
The red route takes the Bye Pass Rd (part of the B6464), a corner of Ruskin Ave, Scrivelsby Gdns and a slice of Wilmore & Kirk Closes to reach the High Rd nr The Cadland pub.
The blue route (and the more likely one IMO) follows the High Rd all the way, and would require significantly less demolition than the other route.
(Personally I'd hope for this route to happen as it puts the tram practically on my doorstep!)

 

[edwin_m]

Awkward to operate though, if you have a short branch off near the end of the existing line. Do you cut the service to the park & ride in half with alternate services to Chetwynd? Or have a triangular junction and run a service up to Toton, then reverse, go to Chetwynd, then reverse again to go into Nottingham (or the other way round)? Or do you up the frequency to give both the same service as Toton gets, with more trams required and possible capacity issues through the core?

I'd like to think that this sort of extension would allow a doubling of the service between the city and Beeston so Toton still gets the same as today. However with one or more possible extra services entering the city from the south and none from the north, there may need to be some extra turnback facilities somewhere north of the city centre, as the middle platform at the Forest might not cope.

 

[tram21]

I'd like to think that this sort of extension would allow a doubling of the service between the city and Beeston so Toton still gets the same as today. However with one or more possible extra services entering the city from the south and none from the north, there may need to be some extra turnback facilities somewhere north of the city centre, as the middle platform at the Forest might not cope.

I'd say probably a 10 minute service all through a day would be sufficient on the Toton branch, and 10 minute on the Chetwynd Line, creating a 5 minute combined frequency, maybe with one of the lines terminating at The Forest. A bit speculative though!

 

[Archie810]

In my opinion, (if any of this is true) I think that the Long Eaton option is probably the most viable. That being said, it is extremely hard to get support for these projects from residents.

still dreaming one day it will go to derby and the airport

 

[StoneRoad]

Can you remember where this was? Only because I was on a tram recently where a similar thing happened!

You always get some silly drivers and pedestrians around the tramway- just today a lorry tried to pull out in front of the tram and only narrowly missed us!

Not far short of the Uni stop [I think]

 

[edwin_m]

still dreaming one day it will go to derby and the airport

Probably too slow compared with the train and with the Skylink Express. Tram only really makes sense when it is mostly in built-up areas where a route can be created that's mostly free of other traffic, the rapid acceleration of a tram minimises the impact of many intermedaite stops, and competing road journeys are restricted by speed limits.

 

[Archie810]

Probably too slow compared with the train and with the Skylink Express. Tram only really makes sense when it is mostly in built-up areas where a route can be created that's mostly free of other traffic, the rapid acceleration of a tram minimises the impact of many intermedaite stops, and competing road journeys are restricted by speed limits.

i'm thinking if you had it go to long eaton then split so one line goes to the airport via sawley, parkway station and EM gateway and the other line going to derby through spondon and chaddersden. that way you link a lot of major destinations and effectively merge derby, nottingham and the airport into one metropolitan area.

 

[edwin_m]

i'm thinking if you had it go to long eaton then split so one line goes to the airport via sawley, parkway station and EM gateway and the other line going to derby through spondon and chaddersden. that way you link a lot of major destinations and effectively merge derby, nottingham and the airport into one metropolitan area.

Possibly, but the airport route would be very slow into central Nottingham and the Derby one will still have quite a lot of rural sections where an express bus would be faster. So the tram would be limited to shorter-distance journeys.

 

[ShadowKnight]

I'd say a tram-train setup beyond hucknall with the robin hood line would be the way it could extend northwards.

Or at least integrate the robin hood line fares and map wise into the NET system like the Northumberland line and Tyne and wear metro.

 

[tram21]

This all depends on what the EMCA wants to do with its transport. I would very much hope they prioritise rapid-transit, and hopefully link Nottingham and Derby. It would not be designed for end to end journeys (think Wolverhampton to Birmingham tram) but getting between intermediate places.

 

[Archie810]

This all depends on what the EMCA wants to do with its transport. I would very much hope they prioritise rapid-transit, and hopefully link Nottingham and Derby. It would not be designed for end to end journeys (think Wolverhampton to Birmingham tram) but getting between intermediate places.

i feel like it would be a waste not to make more use of the tram. buses can only do so much before getting bogged down in traffic, getting full very quicky and being more expensive to operate in the long run.

 

[trentbartonfan]

This all depends on what the EMCA wants to do with its transport. I would very much hope they prioritise rapid-transit, and hopefully link Nottingham and Derby. It would not be designed for end to end journeys (think Wolverhampton to Birmingham tram) but getting between intermediate places.

I agree, people who live on the outer parts of Nottingham/Derbyshire deserve a route too, especially with bus service becoming less frequent and sometimes ceasing to exist.. Possibly a route via Gotham and Kegworth? Even then, an extension towards the airport is unlikely to happen for many years.

 

[tram21]

I agree, people who live on the outer parts of Nottingham/Derbyshire deserve a route too, especially with bus service becoming less frequent and sometimes ceasing to exist.. Possibly a route via Gotham and Kegworth? Even then, an extension towards the airport is unlikely to happen for many years.

I just can't see it going to the airport. It's a regional airport that is unlikely to see major expansion, as its only there for local people. It already has an excellent bus service, which makes most of travel there by bus. While if we had all the money in the world a tram link would be amazing, I just don't think it would be needed.

 

[sprunt]

Does anyone know what the route to Gedling would be? It's 20+ years since I lived in Nottingham, but I seem to remember all the routes that way from the city centre being quite hilly, more so than you'd think would be ideal for trams.

 

[duffield]

Does anyone know what the route to Gedling would be? It's 20+ years since I lived in Nottingham, but I seem to remember all the routes that way from the city centre being quite hilly, more so than you'd think would be ideal for trams.

I think the idea is go east to the racecourse, so right along the bottom of Colwick woods hills, and into Colwick, then presumably gaining the route of the old railway line to the colliery where it used to diverge, very near to Netherfield station. As far as I can see that skirts around all the serious hills and serves the park and ride on the way.