SWR £1489 Fine for Expired Railcard – Seeking Advice

[domes649]

I recently received a £1489.10 fine from South Western Railway for traveling without a valid 16–25 Railcard. The fine is broken down into £1235.10 for "fare avoided" and £250 in admin fees.

Background:​

• My railcard expired 1–2 weeks before my journey on 16 December 2024, and I hadn’t realised because I didn’t receive a renewal notification.
• I travel to work 3 days a week from wokingham to Richmond so it would have been around 6 journeys
• As soon as I was fined, I immediately purchased a new railcard.

SWR Investigation:​

• They asked me to provide proof of my railcard history from 2020–2024, as I had used railcard-discounted tickets during that period.
• My most recent railcard (purchased after I was fined) was through Trainline, but my previous ones were through the Railcard app, linked to my university email.
• Since I graduated in 2022, my university email has been deactivated, meaning I can’t log in to my Railcard account to retrieve my history.
• Railcard support has now told me that inactive accounts are deleted, so I likely can’t get any proof of my past railcards.

Communication with SWR:​

• I emailed SWR to explain my situation, including that I had held a valid railcard until recently and that my university email deactivation had prevented me from receiving renewal reminders.
• I provided proof of my new railcard and attempted to retrieve my past railcard history.
• Mr. Morphew acknowledged my explanation and confirmed my current and past railcards. He stated that he would refer my case to the Prosecutions Department with a recommendation for an out-of-court settlement.
• However, I have now received a £1489.10 fine, and I am not sure what this is encompassing
• I also asked Railcard support for evidence of my previous railcards, but they said that since my account was inactive, it would have been deleted and is now irretrievable.

Current Issue:​

I believe the fine is based on all the journeys I took in the 1–2 weeks after my railcard expired, rather than just the one I was caught on. I want to ask SWR for a breakdown of the fare calculation and possibly challenge the amount, given that I did hold valid railcards up until the short gap before my fine.

Questions:​

1. How can I request a breakdown of the fare calculation? I want to verify if they are charging for the correct number of journeys.
2. Has anyone successfully negotiated a lower settlement in a similar case?
3. Would it help to emphasize that this was an honest mistake rather than intentional fare evasion?
4. Given that my previous railcard details are now irretrievable, is there any other way I could prove my past railcard usage?
   I would appreciate any advice or guidance on how to approach SWR to resolve this in the fairest way possible. Thank you!

 

[AlterEgo]

Firstly, we need to see all the correspondence with your details removed so we can understand the back and forth and exactly what has been said.

I recently received a £1489.10 fine from South Western Railway for traveling without a valid 16–25 Railcard. The fine is broken down into £1235.10 for "fare avoided" and £250 in admin fees.

Background:​

• My railcard expired 1–2 weeks before my journey on 16 December 2024, and I hadn’t realised because I didn’t receive a renewal notification.
• I travel to work 3 days a week from wokingham to Richmond so it would have been around 6 journeys
• As soon as I was fined, I immediately purchased a new railcard.

SWR Investigation:​

• They asked me to provide proof of my railcard history from 2020–2024, as I had used railcard-discounted tickets during that period.
• My most recent railcard (purchased after I was fined) was through Trainline, but my previous ones were through the Railcard app, linked to my university email.
• Since I graduated in 2022, my university email has been deactivated, meaning I can’t log in to my Railcard account to retrieve my history.
• Railcard support has now told me that inactive accounts are deleted, so I likely can’t get any proof of my past railcards.

Communication with SWR:​

• I emailed SWR to explain my situation, including that I had held a valid railcard until recently and that my university email deactivation had prevented me from receiving renewal reminders.
• I provided proof of my new railcard and attempted to retrieve my past railcard history.
• Mr. Morphew acknowledged my explanation and confirmed my current and past railcards. He stated that he would refer my case to the Prosecutions Department with a recommendation for an out-of-court settlement.
• However, I have now received a £1489.10 fine, and I am not sure what this is encompassing
• I also asked Railcard support for evidence of my previous railcards, but they said that since my account was inactive, it would have been deleted and is now irretrievable.

Current Issue:​

I believe the fine is based on all the journeys I took in the 1–2 weeks after my railcard expired, rather than just the one I was caught on. I want to ask SWR for a breakdown of the fare calculation and possibly challenge the amount, given that I did hold valid railcards up until the short gap before my fine.

The fares outstanding (not a fine) are certainly more historic than that; Wokingham to Richmond is £16 single so that would not generate such a large sum of £1489.10. They are looking at journeys much older than that.

Questions:​

1. How can I request a breakdown of the fare calculation? I want to verify if they are charging for the correct number of journeys.

Ask them.

1. Has anyone successfully negotiated a lower settlement in a similar case?

Yes.

1. Would it help to emphasize that this was an honest mistake rather than intentional fare evasion?

Not at this stage, because the dispute seems to be over historic fares rather than your intent.

1. Given that my previous railcard details are now irretrievable, is there any other way I could prove my past railcard usage?
   I would appreciate any advice or guidance on how to approach SWR to resolve this in the fairest way possible. Thank you!

It's not up to you to prove your historic railcard use and it is not reasonable for SWR to think both:

1) You let your railcard lapse which was noted and there is no dispute about that, and
2) Every railcard fare you claimed in the past was false or fraudulent, and the one they saw is the only "real" one you ever held.

I'd tell them to bugger off, but politely - explain you will happily settle for the fares owing after the expiry of your most recent railcard, but that it is not on you to provide historic evidence for fares which cannot be prosecuted (there is a 6 month time limit for railway specific legislation). It is not reasonable to expect people to keep old railcards and you have no way of accessing these railcards. Did you pay for the railcards by bank card?

 

[Gloster]

It is general practice in these situations, i.e. when offering an out of court settlement (which is presumably the situation here) to ask for the full Anytime Single Fare for each and every journey you made, i.e. two fares for a Return journey. They then add their costs; unfortunately SWR seem to be a bit more expensive than other companies. The out of court settlement should close the incident that you were stopped for and the previous ones.

 

[Adam Williams]

I also asked Railcard support for evidence of my previous railcards, but they said that since my account was inactive, it would have been deleted and is now irretrievable.

This is quite poor. They really have no records at all? Not even of the original payment?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I think you should work out the cost of a full anytime fare for all journeys made in the time your railcard has expired add on the £250 admin charge and offer to pay that explaining these are the only journeys you made with the out of date railcard and that all other journeys were legitimately used with a railcard. You don't owe them anymore than that.

 

[domes649]

It is general practice in these situations, i.e. when offering an out of court settlement (which is presumably the situation here) to ask for the full Anytime Single Fare for each and every journey you made, i.e. two fares for a Return journey. They then add their costs; unfortunately SWR seem to be a bit more expensive than other companies. The out of court settlement should close the incident that you were stopped for and the previous ones.

Firstly, we need to see all the correspondence with your details removed so we can understand the back and forth and exactly what has been said.



The fares outstanding (not a fine) are certainly more historic than that; Wokingham to Richmond is £16 single so that would not generate such a large sum of £1489.10. They are looking at journeys much older than that.

Ask them.


Yes.


Not at this stage, because the dispute seems to be over historic fares rather than your intent.


It's not up to you to prove your historic railcard use and it is not reasonable for SWR to think both:

1) You let your railcard lapse which was noted and there is no dispute about that, and
2) Every railcard fare you claimed in the past was false or fraudulent, and the one they saw is the only "real" one you ever held.

I'd tell them to bugger off, but politely - explain you will happily settle for the fares owing after the expiry of your most recent railcard, but that it is not on you to provide historic evidence for fares which cannot be prosecuted (there is a 6 month time limit for railway specific legislation). It is not reasonable to expect people to keep old railcards and you have no way of accessing these railcards. Did you pay for the railcards by bank card?

Thanks for your response!

I've attached my redacted email correspondence with the Revenue Fraud Investigator.

Since posting this I have contacted Trainline and asked if they can tell me the date my last railcard expired (I got a 1 year one 2023-2024 and then before that a 3 year railcard from Railcard itself). They have said that since it's expired they have deleted it off the system so although I know it was only a few weeks I did not have my railcard for, I cannot check exactly how long.

You said there is a 6 month limit for railway specific legislation - does this mean that if they are trying to fine me travel between 2020-2023, that it is invalid?

It feels like an impossible situation as I know I had a railcard 2020-2024 but neither Trainline nor Railcard can help me provide the evidence needed to prove this.

Thanks

 

[Western Gaffer]

I emailed SWR to explain my situation, including that I had held a valid railcard until recently and that my university email deactivation had prevented me from receiving renewal reminders.

• I provided proof of my new railcard and attempted to retrieve my past railcard history.
• Mr. Morphew acknowledged my explanation and confirmed my current and past railcards.

In what way have SWR 'confirmed your past railcards' as such, i.e. have they actually accepted that you had some?

 

[domes649]

This is quite poor. They really have no records at all? Not even of the original payment?

No. And since I posted this I called Trainline to find the dates for the 1year railcard that expired a few weeks prior to this incident but they have said that since it expired they have now deleted it from their system so I can't even prove that one

In what way have SWR 'confirmed your past railcards' as such, i.e. have they actually accepted that you had some?

I'm not entirely sure - they didn't explain this.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Thanks for your response!

I've attached my redacted email correspondence with the Revenue Fraud Investigator.

Since posting this I have contacted Trainline and asked if they can tell me the date my last railcard expired (I got a 1 year one 2023-2024 and then before that a 3 year railcard from Railcard itself). They have said that since it's expired they have deleted it off the system so although I know it was only a few weeks I did not have my railcard for, I cannot check exactly how long.

You said there is a 6 month limit for railway specific legislation - does this mean that if they are trying to fine me travel between 2020-2023, that it is invalid?

It feels like an impossible situation as I know I had a railcard 2020-2024 but neither Trainline nor Railcard can help me provide the evidence needed to prove this.

Thanks

Can you not go back through bank statements to the relevant month from last year it was purchased, it should show the exact date?

 

[domes649]

I think you should work out the cost of a full anytime fare for all journeys made in the time your railcard has expired add on the £250 admin charge and offer to pay that explaining these are the only journeys you made with the out of date railcard and that all other journeys were legitimately used with a railcard. You don't owe them anymore than that.

I'm going to be asking for a breakdown of the fares they're fining me for.
I tend do get a lift home so it would have been £16 single fares - 3 times a week. I believe it was only around 2 weeks I didn't have the railcard for but as I can't access the information of my old railcard - I cannot confirm this.

I will be sending an email today asking for a breakdown of the fine. As I cannot find the railcard purchase in my bank statements I'm worried it may be longer than I initially thought. That being said I know it is not too long because I was shocked when I got it up to show the ticket inspector but frustrated as it wasn't too long ago - hence why I assumed 2 weeks ish.

How would I go about negotiating the fine? Would it be possible to ask to pay only the extra 1/3 I saved on each ticket rather than the full prices of the tickets or is this not something they would do?

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm going to be asking for a breakdown of the fares they're fining me for.
I tend do get a lift home so it would have been £16 single fares - 3 times a week. I believe it was only around 2 weeks I didn't have the railcard for but as I can't access the information of my old railcard - I cannot confirm this.

Before you ask them I would strongly suggest you post up your draft form of words in that request here so people can help you get the wording correct before you send it to SWR. But it seems to me that it is perfectly appropriate for you to ask them for a break down of the journeys they believe that you have travelled without a valid Railcard and which form the basis for their calculation.

the advice from @AlterEgo in post #2 is what should form the structure of what you should write back to them

BUT

remember you are trying to be co-operative and thus the tone of what you send them needs to be right

You said there is a 6 month limit for railway specific legislation - does this mean that if they are trying to fine me travel between 2020-2023, that it is invalid?

This isn't really pertinent to your immediate problem. Your immediate problem, is the massive sum they are asking for an out of court settlement which you believe does not accurately reflect the occasions when you travelled without a valid railcard

the 6 month limit is the deadline to lay papers before the court if they want to prosecute you. They only need to prosecute you for the one occasion when they caught you without a valid ticket (even if it was a genuine error the offence is still committed by the action of stepping on the train with a railcard discounted ticket but no valid Railcard) - they can't roove on all those other occasions that you did not have a valid railcard so they won't try to prosecute you for all those time too, but they don't need to. And that happened on or after 16 December 2024* so 6 months is some time off yet. So you are still in negotiation with them but they do have the upper hand - however, people getting breakdowns of fares the believe have been not properly paid is something we see regularly on here so you should def ask for one

*it's not clear if your recent railcard expired on 16 dec or if your travel when stopped was on 16 Dec, not that it matters much

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I'm going to be asking for a breakdown of the fares they're fining me for.
I tend do get a lift home so it would have been £16 single fares - 3 times a week. I believe it was only around 2 weeks I didn't have the railcard for but as I can't access the information of my old railcard - I cannot confirm this.

I will be sending an email today asking for a breakdown of the fine. As I cannot find the railcard purchase in my bank statements I'm worried it may be longer than I initially thought. That being said I know it is not too long because I was shocked when I got it up to show the ticket inspector but frustrated as it wasn't too long ago - hence why I assumed 2 weeks ish.

How would I go about negotiating the fine? Would it be possible to ask to pay only the extra 1/3 I saved on each ticket rather than the full prices of the tickets or is this not something they would do?

They will not get involved in any negotiating and they wont let you have any credit for the tickets you did buy. They will charge you for a full anytime single for each journey made without a valid rail card. You do need to be a little careful as this is "goodwill gesture" from them settling out of court even though it doesn't feel like it I'm sure, so tread carefully or they may just escalate it straight to court.

Its quite important you find out exactly when your railcard expired to you can tell them the exact journeys you made without a valid railcard and they can calculate it accordingly.

 

[domes649]

How is this?

Dear Prosecutions Team,


I am writing in response to the settlement offer I have received regarding my case (Reference: ...............).


I appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter and remain fully committed to resolving it fairly. However, I would like to request a breakdown of how the £1235.10 in "fare avoided" has been calculated. My understanding is that any amount owed should only cover the period after my most recent railcard expired. I would be happy to settle the appropriate amount for these fares, along with any reasonable administrative costs.


Additionally, I was previously asked to provide evidence of my historic railcards. As I explained, my last railcard was linked to my university email, which has since been deactivated. I contacted Railcard support, and they confirmed that inactive accounts are deleted, meaning I have no way of retrieving this data. Given that railway-specific legislation carries a six-month prosecution limit, I would appreciate clarification on why I am being asked to account for journeys outside of this timeframe.


Please could you review my case and provide a revised settlement amount that reflects only the fares owed post-expiry of my railcard? I remain keen to resolve this matter as swiftly and amicably as possible.


I look forward to your response.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Wokingham to Richmond is £16 single so that would not generate such a large sum of £1489.10

It's worth doing some sums from here. To me, that comes out as a bit more than 77 single journeys at £16 a time: given that train fares went up at the beginning of March, I'll round that up to 80 journeys.

If you were getting the train to and from Richmond (n.b. I note that you say you tend to get a lift back), that's 40 round trips. If you're making the journey 3 days a week, that's just over 13 weeks, or three months of travelling 3 days a week.

You don't need to tell us - but is it possible you could have been making the journey without a valid railcard for that long? I note that you are a fairly recent graduate - so if your first railcard started at the start of the academic year in September and you always renewed it as soon as the previous one expired, the most recent one may have expired in September as well, which just about ties up with my arithmetic.

Think hard about whether the railway have got their sums wrong or not: you will be in a stronger negotiating position if your figures are accurate!

 

[domes649]

It's worth doing some sums from here. To me, that comes out as a bit more than 77 single journeys at £16 a time: given that train fares went up at the beginning of March, I'll round that up to 80 journeys.

If you were getting the train to and from Richmond (n.b. I note that you say you tend to get a lift back), that's 40 round trips. If you're making the journey 3 days a week, that's just over 13 weeks, or three months of travelling 3 days a week.

You don't need to tell us - but is it possible you could have been making the journey without a valid railcard for that long? I note that you are a fairly recent graduate - so if your first railcard started at the start of the academic year in September and you always renewed it as soon as the previous one expired, the most recent one may have expired in September as well, which just about ties up with my arithmetic.

Think hard about whether the railway have got their sums wrong or not: you will be in a stronger negotiating position if your figures are accurate!

Thanks, you could be right. I hope this is not the case and I would honestly be surprised if it were that long. I've typed what I intend to respond for feedback but it is waiting for moderator approval for some reason. I'm hoping to get clarity on this in asking for a breakdown on the fine.

I do not earn a lot of money at all so although I know installments isn't technically an option - how likely is it that if I asked they would allow me to pay in weekly/monthly installments, does anyone know?

 

[Western Gaffer]

In what way have SWR 'confirmed your past railcards' as such, i.e. have they actually accepted that you had some?

I'm not entirely sure - they didn't explain this.

I think what they mean is that they 'acknowledge your explanation and your confirmation of current and past railcards', rather than them confirming railcards as such, unfortunately.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's worth doing some sums from here. To me, that comes out as a bit more than 77 single journeys at £16 a time: given that train fares went up at the beginning of March, I'll round that up to 80 journeys.

If you were getting the train to and from Richmond (n.b. I note that you say you tend to get a lift back), that's 40 round trips. If you're making the journey 3 days a week, that's just over 13 weeks, or three months of travelling 3 days a week.

You don't need to tell us - but is it possible you could have been making the journey without a valid railcard for that long? I note that you are a fairly recent graduate - so if your first railcard started at the start of the academic year in September and you always renewed it as soon as the previous one expired, the most recent one may have expired in September as well, which just about ties up with my arithmetic.

Think hard about whether the railway have got their sums wrong or not: you will be in a stronger negotiating position if your figures are accurate!

The OP says there were about six trips involved, so it seems very unlikely this sum has been derived from that. They are almost certainly taking past fares into account.

 

[WesternLancer]

The OP says there were about six trips involved, so it seems very unlikely this sum has been derived from that. They are almost certainly taking past fares into account.

I agree but I note the op then say @Fawkes Cat ’could be right’. 6 return trips is way different to what Fawkes cat puts forward.

The op needs to check carefully. Can any clarity be stated about when the most recent railcard at least expired?

So the breakdown from SWR is important. But dark for that alone. Not combining it with a claim of partial innocence at this stage.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks, you could be right. I hope this is not the case and I would honestly be surprised if it were that long

Aren’t you sure when your railcard expired? What is leading to the confusion here?

 

[WesternLancer]

Aren’t you sure when your railcard expired? What is leading to the confusion here?

Op says railcard expired 2 weeks before 16 December in original post.

 

[AlterEgo]

Op says railcard expired 2 weeks before 16 December in original post.

Yes and then agrees that 77 journeys “could be right” and that their railcard expired longer ago. But in the opening post they say quite clearly it’s 1-2 weeks.

 

[Cuthbert]

Op says railcard expired 2 weeks before 16 December in original post.

Post 15 they seem to be not that sure and hopes it was not that long.

 

[anothertyke]

Is it possible that SWR know when the OP's railcard expired? I don't see how else they can have calculated any particular figure. Anyway surely the first thing is to establish by correspondence with SWR the breakdown of the £1489 and the second thing is to trawl bank statements or whatever to establish the renewal and therefore expiry date of the railcard.

 

[WesternLancer]

Is it possible that SWR know when the OP's railcard expired? I don't see how else they can have calculated any particular figure. Anyway surely the first thing is to establish by correspondence with SWR the breakdown of the £1489 and the second thing is to trawl bank statements or whatever to establish the renewal and therefore expiry date of the railcard.

Well would the inspector have seen a date on a railcard that was checked on the day stopped?

The op has my sympathy in all this.

 

[Cuthbert]

Well would the inspector have seen a date on a railcard that was checked on the day stopped?

The op has my sympathy in all this.

If they scanned it they'll have a record else it would be visual and the inspector telling a date with no documentation.

OP can you not check emails of receipt of purchase? Where do you buy the rail card from?

 

[talldave]

When did guilty until proven innocent become the norm? If TOCs are going to place so much emphasis on evidence of Railcard ownership going back years then they should get their act together and allow cardholders to retrospectively request their Railcard history.

 

[Snow1964]

Its quite important you find out exactly when your railcard expired to you can tell them the exact journeys you made without a valid railcard and they can calculate it accordingly.

Unless you paid in cash, there is a good chance the purchase is on a bank statement or credit card. If you can remember roughly when you purchased it then might be able to work out it's finish date, by looking back through your statements for a purchase date

If it was one of the free (linked to student bank account) 4 year Santander type railcards, then probably expired 31st August (as usually commence September at start of academic year).

 

[30907]

How is this?

I appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter and remain fully committed to resolving it fairly. However, I would like to request a breakdown of how the £1235.10 in "fare avoided" has been calculated. My understanding is that any amount owed should only cover the period after my most recent railcard expired. I would be happy to settle the appropriate amount for these fares, along with any reasonable administrative costs.

The italicised sentence feels to me a bit argumentative - perhaps reword?

Additionally, I was previously asked to provide evidence of my historic railcards. As I explained, my last railcard was linked to my university email, which has since been deactivated. I contacted Railcard support, and they confirmed that inactive accounts are deleted, meaning I have no way of retrieving this data. Given that railway-specific legislation carries a six-month prosecution limit, I would appreciate clarification on why I am being asked to account for journeys outside of this timeframe.

This sentence should go, as you're telling them they are doing it wrong
It would get my back up if I were SWR.
Just "regret that you are not able to confirm the exact dates" (assuming you can't find your bank accounts).

 

[Snow1964]

This is quite poor. They really have no records at all? Not even of the original payment?

If they are a Limited Company and VAT registered they will have the record for 6 years (as it is legally required)

It might be on some till roll in a dusty store cupboard, or a backup accounting disc, but they will have it (but possibly can't be bothered to look)

 

[Haywain]

The italicised sentence feels to me a bit argumentative - perhaps reword?

Or just remove it completely, as it holds no legal basis.

When did guilty until proven innocent become the norm?

That is a concept for the courts and this has not yet reached the courts. If it does, the train company will be required to provide evidence to achieve a conviction. Until then they are free to assume guilt.