XC Voyager Refurbishment

[Goldfish62]

Indeed; not sure that's really good enough; the interiors are in a state. Doesn't feel like there's a sense of urgency!

Indeed. So it's been delayed supposedly awaiting the arrival of more 221s despite the fact that several have been sat in store for the past few months.

 

[Discuss223]

Starting in October 2025

Given the size of the fleet, this would mean in theory that units could still be operating with the original interior decor in 2026.

That would be 25 years of the same colour scheme/furnishings.

That must be a record for inter-city stock.

 

[AirRail]

Starting in October 2025

Wow! So pushed back yet again. Very interesting.

 

[Discuss223]

221138 now has new style white exterior PIS screens.

 

[occone]

Certainly not rushing with this one!

What is anyone going to do, customers can only whinge, and the person who was giving them a kick up the arse mysteriously had to leave office

 

[tomoufc]

What is anyone going to do, customers can only whinge, and the person who was giving them a kick up the arse mysteriously had to leave office

I think you have the clue to the mystery in your sentence

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Saw an ex-Avanti 221 at Oxford for the first time earlier this week. The temporary livery is quite impressively half-hearted - a single colour XC logo, just the pink without the white. The door displays are clearer than the originals though!

 

[Lanley]

Saw an ex-Avanti 221 at Oxford for the first time earlier this week. The temporary livery is quite impressively half-hearted - a single colour XC logo, just the pink without the white. The door displays are clearer than the originals though!

The single colour logo appears to be the new corporate identity as displayed on their website

 

[Bornin1980s]

Is it still the plan to end four-car single workings in May? Because my SW-NE trip was four carriages both ways, a complete nightmare.

 

[JonathanH]

Is it still the plan to end four-car single workings in May? Because my SW-NE trip was four carriages both ways, a complete nightmare.

Has it ever been stated that that is the plan?

 

[DanNCL]

Is it still the plan to end four-car single workings in May? Because my SW-NE trip was four carriages both ways, a complete nightmare.

That won’t be possible for as long as there’s booked workings to Platforms 9/10 at Newcastle as they’re 4 car max. A 5 car will fit in Platform 11 but that’s occupied by a TPE unit for much of the day.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

That won’t be possible for as long as there’s booked workings to Platforms 9/10 at Newcastle as they’re 4 car max. A 5 car will fit in Platform 11 but that’s occupied by a TPE unit for much of the day.

There's a simple answer to that - terminate at York in the day. Or in alternative hours, run a 5-car Voyager instead.

Passengers don't want booked 4-car Voyagers on busy routes.

 

[Russel]

There's a simple answer to that - terminate at York in the day. Or in alternative hours, run a 5-car Voyager instead.

Passengers don't want booked 4-car Voyagers on busy routes.

Agreed.

Running single 4 car units in order to fit a platform at Newcastle is another example of running a railway for the railways convenience, not the customers.

Yes, there may be a few people who would have to change at York for onward travel to Newcastle, but there will be hundreds of others who have benefited from the extra capacity.

 

[DanNCL]

There's a simple answer to that - terminate at York in the day. Or in alternative hours, run a 5-car Voyager instead.

Passengers don't want booked 4-car Voyagers on busy routes.

Agreed.

Running single 4 car units in order to fit a platform at Newcastle is another example of running a railway for the railways convenience, not the customers.

Yes, there may be a few people who would have to change at York for onward travel to Newcastle, but there will be hundreds of others who have benefited from the extra capacity.

I agree, especially as it’s immediately behind an LNER path doing all the same stops. In my opinion the path north of York only becomes justifiable if it were a) used every hour and b) called at Chester-le-Street to provide a half hourly local service on the ECML north of Darlington (TPE providing the other one). It does neither.

Unfortunately though the railway doesn’t consider what’s best for the customers therefore the situation stands, there’ll be booked 4 car workings for as long as there’s booked workings to P9/P10 at Newcastle.

 

[GoneSouth]

Are you suggesting there shouldn’t be an Edinburgh service every hour anymore? Some of those are 4 cars too. Or are you talking about the Newcastle to Reading service which hardly exists these days?

Being BEHIND an LNER heading north isn’t really an opportunity to change at York is it?

 

[Wyrleybart]

I agree, especially as it’s immediately behind an LNER path doing all the same stops. In my opinion the path north of York only becomes justifiable if it were a) used every hour and b) called at Chester-le-Street to provide a half hourly local service on the ECML north of Darlington (TPE providing the other one). It does neither.

Unfortunately though the railway doesn’t consider what’s best for the customers therefore the situation stands, there’ll be booked 4 car workings for as long as there’s booked workings to P9/P10 at Newcastle.

So you are suggesting it is better for a passenger from Oxford to Durham to have to change at York then ?

 

[DanNCL]

Are you suggesting there shouldn’t be an Edinburgh service every hour anymore? Some of those are 4 cars too. Or are you talking about the Newcastle to Reading service which hardly exists these days?

Being BEHIND an LNER heading north isn’t really an opportunity to change at York is it?

I’m referring to the Reading - Newcastle service not the South West - Scotland service. The Reading - Newcastle service is back in some half baked form.

So you are suggesting it is better for a passenger from Oxford to Durham to have to change at York then ?

Yes I am. The capacity would be better used strengthening other services to 8 or 9 car than it is providing a direct service for a limited number of passengers who benefit from a direct Oxford/Banbury/Leamington to Darlington/Durham/Newcastle. Or if strengthening other services is such an alien idea to XC then use the freed up 4 cars to create slack in the fleet for the refurbishment project.

 

[40875704]

I'd like to see the whole fleet refurbished at Booth's in Rotherham, [other Scrapyards are available]. The sound, the smell the visibility, cramped interior, dreadful.

 

[GoneSouth]

I'd like to see the whole fleet refurbished at Booth's in Rotherham, [other Scrapyards are available]. The sound, the smell the visibility, cramped interior, dreadful.

But still more comfortable than anything newer

And more reliable

 

[Towers]

I'd like to see the whole fleet refurbished at Booth's in Rotherham, [other Scrapyards are available]. The sound, the smell the visibility, cramped interior, dreadful.

Interesting you say cramped; I’ve always thought they were quite light and airy internally! Old and careworn, certainly, but overall quite cheery! Horses for courses, I guess!

 

[YorksLad12]

Thinking sideways, cutting the service back to York would cause an uproar similar to that the suggestion would generate here. It might encourage the people in change to find the funding to do something about the platform situation at Newcastle.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Were do they stop when they take longer trains to Newcastle?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Were do they stop when they take longer trains to Newcastle?

They don't, in regards to terminating services. The Newcastle Reading/Southampton service was always a single Voyager, primarily a four carriage one, but occasionally a five carriage one if they could get space in Platform 11. And then obviously Newcastle is served by the Edinburgh Plymouth service, which can be anything from four to nine and very occasionally ten carriages long, but these are through services so the length of the bays is irrelevant and they don't dwell long enough to cause congestion in the through platforms.

 

[Russel]

So you are suggesting it is better for a passenger from Oxford to Durham to have to change at York then ?

Yes.

Oxford to Durham, a 4 hour+ journey, so let's ask the question...

Stand in a vestibule on a 4 car Voyager for 4 hours on a direct train?

Or

Sit in a seat for on a double Voyager and make one change at York?

Yeah, hard choice there.

 

[GoneSouth]

Yes.

Oxford to Durham, a 4 hour+ journey, so let's ask the question...

Stand in a vestibule on a 4 car Voyager for 4 hours on a direct train?

Or

Sit in a seat for on a double Voyager and make one change at York?

Yeah, hard choice there.

But why would that route be doubled up when the SW one isn’t guaranteed to be doubled up as well? Which takes priority and why?

I’d say Reading to Manchester should be doubled too.

 

[Starmill]

But why would that route be doubled up when the SW one isn’t guaranteed to be doubled up as well? Which takes priority and why?

I’d say Reading to Manchester should be doubled too.

I think you're potentially responding to a comment about deploying five cars by themselves, rather than pairs.

 

[GoneSouth]

Also, if a train is hanging around Newcastle for hours, why can’t it be moved to sidings /depot somewhere?

 

[Russel]

But why would that route be doubled up when the SW one isn’t guaranteed to be doubled up as well? Which takes priority and why?

I don't know, I'm simply a passenger who wants a seat and every doubled up diagram increases the chance of that happening.

I don't care about how/why/which diagrams etc, that's XC/DFTs problem, not mine.

 

[GoneSouth]

I don't know, I'm simply a passenger who wants a seat and every doubled up diagram increases the chance of that happening.

I don't care about how/why/which diagrams etc, that's XC/DFTs problem, not mine.

What I meant was that even if you terminate at York which was suggested you might still end up with a 4 car AND a change onto an equally packed LNER.

Don’t think there’s an easy answer to this one.

I’ve seen the 170 refurb thread which has at least one finished unit, when can we expect the voyagers to start their refurb?

 

[dk1]

Also, if a train is hanging around Newcastle for hours, why can’t it be moved to sidings /depot somewhere?

That would require extra shunt/ferry drivers.