Hulley's of Baslow

[Travelmonkey]

All that is relatively easy to sort. Or just push the Bus Only version of the Wayfarer in those areas, but compared to some of the issues Stagecoach (or whoever else gets involved) has to face changing some ticketing boundaries is relatively trivial


Indeed. I doubt Wednesday will be the end of the story.

Absolutely, at least there has been some attempt to give people (the staff and the authority) some notice. I've known operators in the past literally close down part way through the day, recall vehicles/drivers to the depot, hand out redundancy notices and padlock the gate shut.

Halton Transport being one of the latter, its commendable Hulleys are trying to mitigate their staff behind closed doors but definitely a sliding slope, hopefully Hulleys vehicles aren't left abandoned like Haltons,

 

[DunsBus]

The demise of Hulleys may have echoes of other failures as the usual issue is what happens when the money runs out.

Munros of Jedburgh was just mad expansionism...a bit like a certain individual in the Bristol area. Whilst I do see parallels with Velvet, the greater similarity is with Western Greyhound. A decent operator in marginal territory where the owners sell out...only to see the new owners having insufficient reserves and effective business acumen to buy it and run it.

We have seen many instances of councils have established contingency plans for when this happens...because whilst the end is swift, the story is usually played out over a protracted period. Again, see Western Greyhound, Webberbus, CT Plus, Countryliner...

I remember when Munro's won the contracts for the main A68 corridor services from Edinburgh to Jedburgh and Kelso in 2000 from First, together with the Galashiels to Jedburgh and Kelso services, it wasted no time in making First out to be the bad guys. Ironically, it was these very same "bad guys" who stepped in to see out the contracts when Munro's went out of business.

 

[ChrisC]

Means stagecoach will have to change
The area there silver day riders valid as it's not valid in alfreton or some parts of the peak district

If Stagecoach do take on some of Hulleys routes in Derbyshire why would the Silver ticket area have to change? Matlock, Alfreton and Ripley etc are outside the Silver ticket area and so are the Stagecoach routes in Nottinghamshire. If you need to travel outside the Mansfield, Worksop or Retford ticket areas in Nottinghamshire, the £9.50 Gold ticket is the only day ticket available. At least in Derbyshire you can save 50p by getting a Wayfarer with the advantage of that being multi operator.

 

[BusesOfTheNW]

Unfortunate about only 2 days notice but that is the nature of the beast. The sudden closure of the business was dictated by the fact that they couldn't get insurance when it ran out this week.
The letter to employees explaining this is in the public domain.

Where would I be able to find this letter please?

 

[tram21]

Just got some inside info from a Stagecoach driver. Lots of drivers are coming on loan to Chesterfield this week. Make of that what you will.

 

[SLC001]

Facebook, PSV Circle for example.

 

[AWK]

One of Hulley’s drivers on Facebook has slammed the owner stating ‘he’s only given us two days notice of what’s going on’.

It does raise a question though. Was the rather strange sale of Go-Coach back to the original owners all part of the plan to stop that business being dragged down with Hulley’s?

I don't think that's a question to be honest. That is undoubtably the case. The comments from Austin Blackburn (Go Coach founder/now owner again) at the time were telling - paraphrasing slightly but it was along the lines of "Go Coach now has a bright future, Hulleys less so"

 

[tram21]

I don't think that's a question to be honest. That is undoubtably the case. The comments from Austin Blackburn (Go Coach founder/now owner again) at the time were telling - paraphrasing slightly but it was along the lines of "Go Coach now has a bright future, Hulleys less so"

That was almost the exact words used! Something like our business is now secure, Hulleys less so.

 

[AWK]

Halton Transport being one of the latter, its commendable Hulleys are trying to mitigate their staff behind closed doors but definitely a sliding slope, hopefully Hulleys vehicles aren't left abandoned like Haltons,

There's apparently an E200 at Mount Pleasant recovery's yard in Grindleford. Will cost Hulleys (or the receivers) to have stored there and/or repair or have towed back to the yard so I guess it'll just sit there now, wouldn't be surprised of ownership of it passed to MP to cover their losses and they sold it on

That was almost the exact words used! Something like our business is now secure, Hulleys less so.

That's it. It was quite telling at the time the choice of words used.

 

[tram21]

Does anyone know if the Evoras are on lease?

 

[Travelmonkey]

There's apparently an E200 at Mount Pleasant recovery's yard in Grindleford. Will cost Hulleys (or the receivers) to have stored there and/or repair or have towed back to the yard so I guess it'll just sit there now, wouldn't be surprised of ownership of it passed to MP to cover their losses and they sold it on

A different MP but one to recall Mp travel was another one that died in spectacular death, maybe a warning don't register any X1 routes it'll doom you ,

 

[AWK]

Just got some inside info from a Stagecoach driver. Lots of drivers are coming on loan to Chesterfield this week. Make of that what you will.

And vehicles identified from across the Stagecoach 'empire' that can be brought up to Derbyshire/Yorkshire at short notice too. Again, Stagecoach and others will have been discreetly making plans behind the scenes for weeks. I'm pretty sure they will have had someone at the PI too, fairly normal in circumstances like this so a message can get back to HQ in real time from the hearing.

Does anyone know if the Evoras are on lease?

Yes, leased as far as I know.

As Receivers have already been called in I suspect they, and the vehicles loaned from other fleets will leave almost instantly - possibly as soon as today - to avoid any further lease costs and the risk of any damage to them which will need to be repaired before the vehicles are returned.

 

[MotCO]

As this is commercial mileage DCC won't be able to step in until it was confirmed the operator was closing - you can not issue contracts for mileage that is currently being commercially operated

But presumably if another operator fancied operating any of the commercial routes as commercial, then they can register them and operate them, although I don't know how quickly an emergency registration can be arranged, if such a thing exists.

 

[BusesOfTheNW]

But presumably if another operator fancied operating any of the commercial routes as commercial, then they can register them and operate them, although I don't know how quickly an emergency registration can be arranged, if such a thing exists.

I'd imagine that (although could be wrong) the relevant authority would rather a short notice registration than leaving people without a bus for weeks

 

[AWK]

Message below from Derbyshire County Council's Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/derbyshirecc/posts/1074726348018668?ref=embed_post

Message about Hulleys of Baslow bus services.
We are aware that Hulleys have announced that sadly they will cease trading this Wednesday. We are doing all we can to find new operators for the services we pay for, and will have news tomorrow on who these operators will be. Some of the Hulley services take children to school so we will keep in touch with the schools involved.
Hulleys also operated a number of commercial services. We are hopeful that other bus companies will take these routes on, but they have to register their interest with the Traffic Commissioner, rather than the council.

I'd imagine that (although could be wrong) the relevant authority would rather a short notice registration than leaving people without a bus for weeks

Indeed - and expect the local MPs to jump on the bandwaggon and tell us how they have saved the bus service for their local constituents!

 

[Simon75]

I do feel sympathy towards the drivers as redundancy is never good, but, given the proximity to Chesterfield/Sheffield/Belper all with bus depots ran by the likes of Stagecoach, First, Trent Barton etc, I doubt many will struggle to find new bus driving jobs that'll be more secure and possibly better paid.

Also ,TrentBarton have a depot in Matlock

 

[tram21]

Message below from Derbyshire County Counci's Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/derbyshirecc/posts/1074726348018668?ref=embed_post)

Hmm interesting. The text is quoted below.

Message about Hulleys of Baslow bus services.
We are aware that Hulleys have announced that sadly they will cease trading this Wednesday. We are doing all we can to find new operators for the services we pay for, and will have news tomorrow on who these operators will be. Some of the Hulley services take children to school so we will keep in touch with the schools involved.
Hulleys also operated a number of commercial services. We are hopeful that other bus companies will take these routes on, but they have to register their interest with the Traffic Commissioner, rather than the council.

I can definitely see Stagecoach taking on the 170 at short notice, and probably the 257 too. First bus will probably increase their service provision on the 272, but Hulleys regularly don't operate their services on that route anyway.

Which other services are commercial?

EDIT: Ah, the 6. Stagecoach will probably take that, I'm hoping they're looking at making a Lake district style network in the Peaks, and everything I've heard suggests that too.
Oh and the 55, Stagecoach will almost certainly take that. It was profitable for Hulleys afaik.

 

[AWK]

I can definitely see Stagecoach taking on the 170 at short notice, and probably the 257 too. First bus will probably increase their service provision on the 272, but Hulleys regularly don't operate their services on that route anyway.

Totally speculation but I would be amazed if First didn't plug the gaps on the 272 - it's not much more resource, their drivers already know the route, and it means First get all the income and no longer have to split it.

Which other services are commercial?

6 (Chesterfield - Litton/Bakewell) which is mainly schools/college traffic so I envisage an emergency tender for this
55 (Chesterfield - Alfreton) which has other services over parts of the route so may not be replaced like for like. Evening/Sunday trips attract BSIP funding
170 (Chesterfield - Bakewell) is commercial apart from some BSIP funding for evening services
257 (Sheffield - Bakewell) is commercial apart from I believe some little bits of de minimis funding for some schools diversions so again I expect this element will go to emergency tender
271/2 (Sheffield - Castleton) as above

 

[mayneway]

I don't think that's a question to be honest. That is undoubtably the case. The comments from Austin Blackburn (Go Coach founder/now owner again) at the time were telling - paraphrasing slightly but it was along the lines of "Go Coach now has a bright future, Hulleys less so"

Got to be honest. That’s very much how it looks.
The owner has ‘tidied’ things up before the ship hits the rocks.

 

[AWK]

Got to be honest. That’s very much how it looks.
The owner has ‘tidied’ things up before the ship hits the rocks.

I'd do a slightly different take...

The former owner of Go Coach saw that the business he'd founded and recently sold for what he thought was going to be a secure future about to be dragged down so forced through a repurchase. We don't know for sure but it could well be there was a repurchase clause written in to the sale contract.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'd do a slightly different take...

The former owner of Go Coach saw that the business he'd founded and recently sold for what he thought was going to be a secure future about to be dragged down so forced through a repurchase. We don't know for sure but it could well be there was a repurchase clause written in to the sale contract.

That's exactly how I've interpreted it.

Sold his business to someone, realised the Hulley's business was draining the lifeblood out of Go Coach once he was party to the facts, and triggered or negotiated a repurchase.

 

[Goldfish62]

That's exactly how I've interpreted it.

Sold his business to someone, realised the Hulley's business was draining the lifeblood out of Go Coach once he was party to the facts, and triggered or negotiated a repurchase.

Indeed...

 

[mayneway]

I'd do a slightly different take...

The former owner of Go Coach saw that the business he'd founded and recently sold for what he thought was going to be a secure future about to be dragged down so forced through a repurchase. We don't know for sure but it could well be there was a repurchase clause written in to the sale contract.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
And reading comments away from this forum on social media, it seems im not the only one.

Be interesting to see if and where the Hulley’s owner crops up next!

 

[DDB]

Totally speculation but I would be amazed if First didn't plug the gaps on the 272 - it's not much more resource, their drivers already know the route, and it means First get all the income and no longer have to split it.

I assume that having half the services disappear would be bad for the attractiveness and hence commercial viability of the route so it is First's interest to try and save it.
As they already operate some of the services on the route can they just run the others straight away without needing much or even any offical permission?

 

[AWK]

I assume that having half the services disappear would be bad for the attractiveness and hence commercial viability of the route so it is First's interest to try and save it.
As they already operate some of the services on the route can they just run the others straight away without needing much or even any offical permission?

No, they would still need to register the new timetable. They could do this under short notice provisions with the support of DCC and SYMCA which I'm sure would be forthcoming

 

[RELL6L]

Sadly it’s become clear that it was when and not if for Hulley’s demise but it’s a shame nevertheless, not least because of all the interest the company and its predecessors have provided over the years.

There isn’t that much commercial work remaining but I can see Stagecoach going for the 170 and 257, perhaps running Chesterfield >170> Bakewell >257> Sheffield then either break and return or interwork with the 43. They will probably go for the 6 too and surely First will mop up the rest of the 271/272. The tendered work in the Matlock area might be more interesting but the process here is under way, I expect all will become clearer very soon.

 

[AWK]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
And reading comments away from this forum on social media, it seems im not the only one.

Be interesting to see if and where the Hulley’s owner crops up next!

With a PI in to his repute as a TM looming (that doesn't go away just because the company has ceased) which could result in a ban for him acting as a TM, and potential proceedings following the collapse of the company which could result in a ban of being a Company Director he may well not pop up anywhere again

Sadly it’s become clear that it was when and not if for Hulley’s demise but it’s a shame nevertheless, not least because of all the interest the company and its predecessors have provided over the years.

There isn’t that much commercial work remaining but I can see Stagecoach going for the 170 and 257, perhaps running Chesterfield >170> Bakewell >257> Sheffield then either break and return or interwork with the 43. They will probably go for the 6 too and surely First will mop up the rest of the 271/272. The tendered work in the Matlock area might be more interesting but the process here is under way, I expect all will become clearer very soon.

I would expect any former Hulleys mileage that is taken on, particularly at short notice is stand alone for now and not integrated straight away in to establish networks.

That allows the new operator(s) to really get to know their new services, see what is worth keeping 'as is' long-term or what needs changing.

Also helps with Drivers - if the new operator takes on any Hulleys staff they already know those routes and don't need training up on all the other routes that company/depot operate.

 

[mayneway]

The letter he has sent staff is laughable to say the least. Drivers will only be able to TUPE over to other operators IF they complete remaining shifts.
And the best bit states that all personal possessions must be removed from site and reference requests must be made before Wednesday as ‘the owner’ won’t be available after the 26th.

Really comes across as a supportive employer trying to help his loyal staff find other employment!!

 

[Travelmonkey]

It's a sinking ship, Go coach pulling themselves away may have saved their backs too, especially as they have new work tenders and are growing. It's sad to see another independent fall but at least it wasn't a mid service "right we're closed, back to depot asap" type wrap up. Hulleys had the right ideas just implemented poorly and that can trace back to the X1 X57 and then their Go against stagecoach with a I'll fated open top, I do hope the staff can TUPE to new operations and still serve their local customers.

 

[AWK]

The letter he has sent staff is laughable to say the least. Drivers will only be able to TUPE over to other operators IF they complete remaining shifts.

I've seen the letter. I'm almost certain TUPE will not apply as no staff are employed specifically to operate only tendered mileage.

TUPE does not apply when one operator is ceasing commercial work and another operator putting a commercial replacement in.

And the best bit states that all personal possessions must be removed from site and reference requests must be made before Wednesday as ‘the owner’ won’t be available after the 26th.

This is not exactly unusual. The company is now being run by the Receivers. They will be calling the shots now, and will be cutting costs. That involves removing as many costs as possible, so they will look to close the depot/yard down as quickly as possible, have services disconnected and laying off employees, which is all the (former) owner is now.