Dstock7080
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They do on 1992 Stock.
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1992 stock Refurbishment?
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Nym
Established Member
The compressors would have remained as is, as would pretty much everything because the “duplication” as some see it is a requirement for LUL with regards to “keeping it moving” because unlike BR. Stopped is not considered safe.
It would have prevented duplication of some new systems like CCTV but the majority of the benifit came from less autocouplers
simple simon
Member
I've placed a YouTube showing the 1992ts trains as new and after refurb / refurbishment in the Photography Sites, Blogs & Videos section
www.railforums.co.uk
London's 1992ts Trains - As New - Refreshed - Refurbished
Using footage taken between 1993 and 2025, this film shows trains on the Central and Waterloo & City lines as they were when brand new and after several upgrades / refurbishments. The Central Line Improvement Project (CLIP) is a £500 million life extension plan for the 1992ts (tube stock)...
www.railforums.co.uk
I've placed a YouTube showing the 1992ts trains as new and after refurb / refurbishment in the Photography Sites, Blogs & Videos section
London's 1992ts Trains - As New - Refreshed - Refurbished
Using footage taken between 1993 and 2025, this film shows trains on the Central and Waterloo & City lines as they were when brand new and after several upgrades / refurbishments. The Central Line Improvement Project (CLIP) is a £500 million life extension plan for the 1992ts (tube stock)...
I got on one of the newly refurbished train the other day and to say it was massively underwhelming is a huge understatement. We have waited over 3 years for this?
Externally, as it entered the station, you wouldn't have had a clue it was a refurbished one other than a tiny clue that the dot matrix destination board looked different. Internally? What? New seat covers that some had already looked like the volume of the cushions had been blown out of them, the cleanliness of the train was almost identical to a non-refurbished one, and the external bodywork looked no different.
Those that have not been on one yet, stand down, don't get excited and don't waste your day chasing it down, it's an absolute shambles.
How was the motors or the ride
Nym
Established Member
Almost like the state of the interior other than RVAR compliance was absolutely nothing to do with this project...
It's a re-tractioning project that includes other RVAR compliance, not an interior refresh.
Yes the principle incentive for the project was retractioning (to resolve the unreliability) but then there were multiple additions to scope (which has affected the program) justified as directly beneficial to the customer : updated lighting, Passenger information, Security CCTV. Wheel chair spaces.
As well as replacing the seats , I believed the floor covering is being replaced (has to be removed to sort the floor corrosion).
As well as replacing the seats , I believed the floor covering is being replaced (has to be removed to sort the floor corrosion).
southern442
Established Member
Purely anecdotal but from my ride on one the difference in cleanliness was very noticeable, it definitely had a slight 'new train' vibe to it although I think that's only because the rest of them are in such a state! The new motors, whilst not as iconic, do sound very good, and it seemed as though the acceleration and deceleration was noticeably more rapid.
danielnez1
Member
Since the new internal displays block out a fair bit of the top of the curved windows, will they help with heat build up especially in open sections during the day?
DM352
Member
Not me, I prefer the original 92 traction but that is a personal preference. Never been much of a fan of the traction sound from the similar Victoria line S stock especially where it sounds like a blast of air whoosing out starting out at 1-5 mph.At least the refurb does not include the loud door opening sound of the S stock!
Granted, most commuters will not know the difference with the 92 refurb stock except for the bigger display and a few less seats.
My apologies, seeing as the title of this thread was '1992 stock refurbishment' - like many other forums around - I was led to believe refurbishment meant refurbishing, ie, transforming a train from old to looking brand new, for note, see the transformation of the District line refurbishment before it got brand new trains a few years ago.
Yeah, people can argue all they want about reliability and whilst that's important, so is the ambience and comfort.
Get on any central line train now I can guarantee you there is not one that doesn't have either ripped seats, cushions completely 'gone', graffiti, ripped signs, it's in a disgraceful state.
How many years has it taken now to get just one half-baked train out running end to end? Covid is an invalid excuse now, can't keep dragging that out of the excuse cupboard.
Yeah, people can argue all they want about reliability and whilst that's important, so is the ambience and comfort.
Get on any central line train now I can guarantee you there is not one that doesn't have either ripped seats, cushions completely 'gone', graffiti, ripped signs, it's in a disgraceful state.
How many years has it taken now to get just one half-baked train out running end to end? Covid is an invalid excuse now, can't keep dragging that out of the excuse cupboard.
Nym
Established Member
The project in the form of CLIP started around 2012 - 2013.
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Yes there was a 2011 "refresh" with new moquette and repair to external bodies e.g. sort water ingress issues in cabs.
I still do not understand why the displays need to take up so much room when it's just LED technology. Surely the tech has advanced such it can be more streamlined?
To be honest, that doesn't clear anything up, it just adds to confusion what has taken so long and why.
How much did they start spending back in 2012-13? Couldn't have been more than £500, surely tape from Wickes or B&Q to patch up the cracks and leaks wasn't included in the CLIP?
I haven’t been through the whole thread so apols if I’m repeating previous information, but the one thing that sticks in my mind about the ~2013 refurb was that they turned the ventilation panels round behind the main seating banks to stop people littering on trains as the vents pointed upwards. That one always amused me.
boiledbeans2
Member
Please explain. I googled for interior photos and here are a few random ones. I don't see the ventilation panels behind the seats being much different.
I believe in original condition:
In post-2013 refurb condition?
There are now little “sails” on top of the ventilation grilles which prevent them being obstructed by newspapers.
notverydeep
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If taken from the stage of 'inception' to final implementation, many projects will seem to have taken a really long time. However, inception and then developing the idea from early planning, to feasibility and business case analysis to final approval of full funding should probably not be included in the overall timescale (how many people worked full time on Crossrail as early as the 1980s?). Projects inevitably have to compete for limited resources and plenty of initiatives do not get through all of these stages. Large projects might get some funding for detailed design and prototyping. Some projects will get merged to achieve economies of scale or in the case of trains, to reduce total down time required for different work elements. It is fair to say that some of the elements of programme that became CLIP were being worked on actively from 2012-2013, but it did not become a committed programme, in the sense that funding was approved to buy the components for the 'production' (that is not prototype) trains until many years later after many of the above initial stages had been completed.
The pandemic largely affected the detailed design and prototyping phase and upset the planned integration of the CLIP modifications with a time based overhaul that was also due and is mandatory to keep trains running. In consequence this part had to be separated back out of the CLIP modifications at least for a large minority of the fleet and is referred to now as 'Door Overhaul, Programmed Lift' (DOPL). DOPL exams represent most of the activity being undertaken within CLIP during 2025 (and early 2026) and is the main reason for the slow delivery of the fully modified trains during this period. Finally, CLIP did not include any cosmetic works initially beyond the impact of the RVAR modifications (and the project was not referred to as a refurbishment), the extra internal works were a late add on. DOPL trains return to service with no cosmetic works other than a deep clean.
The pandemic largely affected the detailed design and prototyping phase and upset the planned integration of the CLIP modifications with a time based overhaul that was also due and is mandatory to keep trains running. In consequence this part had to be separated back out of the CLIP modifications at least for a large minority of the fleet and is referred to now as 'Door Overhaul, Programmed Lift' (DOPL). DOPL exams represent most of the activity being undertaken within CLIP during 2025 (and early 2026) and is the main reason for the slow delivery of the fully modified trains during this period. Finally, CLIP did not include any cosmetic works initially beyond the impact of the RVAR modifications (and the project was not referred to as a refurbishment), the extra internal works were a late add on. DOPL trains return to service with no cosmetic works other than a deep clean.
Yes, previously pointed out this project had very bad scope creep with perhaps the classic consequences - Interesting whether TFL's "gates" process for projects helped or hindered?
Some good points made and the difference between internal resourcing attitudes and a more commercial stance taken when such work is contracted out.
Some good points made and the difference between internal resourcing attitudes and a more commercial stance taken when such work is contracted out.
If it helps I’ve just taken a picture of the ventilation grille on a Central line train I’m on right now. This is how they look as opposed to being flush with the shelf.
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Does anyone remember a unit from c. 2011 refresh that received flush LED lighting? I am sad it wasn't rolled out back then; we have had to suffer those ugly light shades a decade longer than we should have!
Thanks @Mojo -- that's the badger. They used to be installed the other way round but spun them so the ridges stopped littering, as I recall.
boiledbeans2
Member
Thanks. That is a smart idea. A simple and cheap solution of flipping the grilles prevents the grilles from being blocked.
Possibly the one I’m on right now (LCN 91183)?
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317 forever
Established Member
The 1992 stock seems more dark and dated than the 1973 stock. Even the 1972 stock is slightly brighter even though it is showing its age.
When I recently used the 1992 stock it looked like what the designers imagined the future to look like. It makes me appreciative of the interior a bit.
The 1973 stock was refurbished with an interior similar to the 96 stock so is in a way a more modern interior design.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I’m actually on a 92 stock now and the tinted windows make it somehow look dirtier, add to the dark interior and I noticed the headlights weren’t modified to look like leds like on the 95/6 stock.
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Agree with the tinted windows having an impact on these trains. If you go on the Waterloo and City, aside from them having taken much less abuse over the years, everything seems much brighter with the clear windows. Just the initial impact of when the train arrives and you don't have to peer into the murky windows like on the Central make a difference.
I understand why the tinted windows were applied to reduce the excessing solar gain they were experiencing with the large windows however I have always thought a better fix would have been to cover the top portion of the windows, in a similar manner to the Piccadilly line where half of the windows are covered, rather than tint the whole window. With CLIP we've ended up with this and I was hopeful we might see the tint removed, at least on the non-door windows, but the murky glass lives on. I must admit I'm not sure whether it's something applied to the windows or whether all the glazing was replaced, clearly making it much harder to remove if the latter.
Cheesepuff
New Member
No.