The politics of custom liveries - including those that celebrate diversity etc.

[Zakaria Fadel]

Moderator note: Split from

Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

Is there any progress on those trains mentioned in the title?

www.railforums.co.uk

I’m anticipating that 807010 will be called the diversity train, just like how 390119 is the Pride one and 390121 is the Climate Train.

 

[87015]

It was all released this morning with various slants available:

Woke row after train repainted to celebrate diversity

Avanti train artwork celebrating ‘vibrant’ ethnicity of company’s workforce called ‘nonsense and a farce’

www.telegraph.co.uk

Mr Bacon said: “Avanti West Coast can’t run a train on time, but they can find the time and money for virtue-signalling nonsense. While passengers are stranded on platforms waiting for services that never show up, Avanti are busy patting themselves on the back for colourful train paint jobs....

Ms Carberry, who previously designed a Windrush-themed bus wraparound covering for Transport for London, described the Avanti train livery as “a living, evolving artwork that has the potential to resonate with the public”....

New ‘vibrant’ train design celebrates ethnicity of workforce

Digital artist Baraka Carberry created the work for Avanti West Coast.

www.standard.co.uk

A train has been wrapped in bold artwork celebrating the ethnicity of its operator’s workforce and the communities it serves.
Digital artist Baraka Carberry, who created the work for Avanti West Coast, said it shows “scenes of people, culture, colours and joy”.
The Together We Roll design stretches across all seven carriages of a new Evero train which enters passenger service this summer...

 

[FrodshamJnct]

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Clearly fact as it was all released this morning with various slants available:

Woke row after train repainted to celebrate diversity

Avanti train artwork celebrating ‘vibrant’ ethnicity of company’s workforce called ‘nonsense and a farce’

www.telegraph.co.uk

New ‘vibrant’ train design celebrates ethnicity of workforce

Digital artist Baraka Carberry created the work for Avanti West Coast.

www.standard.co.uk

Two very different stories there! One reporting just the facts and the other one already has 403 comments (and growing fast).

 

[Pete_uk]

The livery is so Groovy baby!

 

[Chris125]

I suspect most passengers will just see a bright, lively eye-catching livery that makes a nice change from the usual one.

 

[Class15]

I think most people will just see a bright, lively eye-catching livery that makes a nice change from the dull conventional one.

Exactly. What confuses me is how little fuss there was about 378205 and why now another unit having a very similar treatment is getting all this hate?

 

[Trainbike46]

I suspect most passengers will just see a bright, lively eye-catching livery that makes a nice change from the usual one.

I think it looks good in the photos - hopefully I'll encounter it soon!

Exactly. What confuses me is how little fuss there was about 378205 and why now another unit having a very similar treatment is getting all this hate?

There've been lots of pride and diversity liveries, most/all of them look very good.

I suspect the hate is in part because various reactionary forces, like the telegraph, feel like they're winning after the recent biologically and medically illiterate supreme court judgement.

Or maybe there is more hate because this one is about racial diversity, whereas most previous ones were pride liveries?

Regardless, I love the livery and am very glad that Avanti has introduced it!

 

[jh64]

One could suggest the writers at the Telegraph are a bunch of easily-triggered snowflakes having a meltdown, if a bit of vinyl on a train upsets them that much.

 

[The_Train]

Two very different stories there! One reporting just the facts and the other one already has 403 comments (and growing fast).

If it is upsetting Telegraph readers then the livery is already doing good work

 

[QSK19]

Sorry to go against the grain here, but this is an absolute waste of money and time.

I get that there are some causes that the railway wants to support; however, surely the time, effort and money needs to go into meaningful improvements of substance as opposed to investing in what seems like cans of tutti frutti paint which have been thrown over the train.

I don’t care what a train looks like, I want to get from A to B on a reliable service.

PS: I’m not a Telegraph reader, btw

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Sorry to go against the grain here, but this is an absolute waste of money and time.

I get that there are some causes that the railway wants to support; however, surely the time, effort and money needs to go into meaningful improvements of substance as opposed to investing in what seems like cans of tutti frutti paint which have been thrown over the train.

I don’t care what a train looks like, I want to get from A to B on a reliable service.

PS: I’m not a Telegraph reader, btw

Yes, it’s blatant virtue signalling, nothing more nothing less. And it looks graffitied. Not a fan.

 

[MontyP]

Exactly. What confuses me is how little fuss there was about 378205 and why now another unit having a very similar treatment is getting all this hate?

Because the Torygraph likes to stir up a bit of trouble and give its reactionary readership something to have a good moan about?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes, it’s blatant virtue signalling, nothing more nothing less. And it looks graffitied. Not a fan.

It might be a sponsored livery, much like the Skyfall livery on an East Coast class 225 unit in 2013.
In which case it will be a revenue-earner for Avanti.
We'll have to see whether GBR gets into that mode.
I well remember the Ginster Pasties-liveried 158s operated by Wessex Trains (2003).

 

[DJH1971]

It might be a sponsored livery, much like the Skyfall livery on an East Coast class 225 unit in 2013.
In which case it will be a revenue-earner for Avanti.
We'll have to see whether GBR gets into that mode.
I well remember the Ginster Pasties-liveried 158s operated by Wessex Trains (2003).

There was also a Superman Returns liveried Pendolino back in 2006.

 

[Zakaria Fadel]

807010’s livery was totally worth the wait!! This is hands down the best livery out there yet!!

 

[43096]

Yes, it’s blatant virtue signalling, nothing more nothing less. And it looks graffitied. Not a fan.

Let’s be clear, it is absolutely hideous. I’d also question if it is legal as the contrasting doors don’t appear to contrast sufficiently.

 

[AlterEgo]

I get that there are some causes that the railway wants to support; however, surely the time, effort and money needs to go into meaningful improvements of substance as opposed to investing in what seems like cans of tutti frutti paint which have been thrown over the train.

Do you think a train company can't do two things at once?

I don’t care what a train looks like

Glad to hear it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Let’s be clear, it is absolutely hideous.

It is I’m sorry I don’t have a problem with it, because it’s just a train, but it’s definitely an eyesore.

 

[Mikey C]

Looks really cluttered to me. There's too much going on.

 

[johnw]

I’m a gay man, but the problem with these so called diversity liveries is that they often look garish and I don’t feel they represent me. They are often designed by artists who may be talented in their own style but do not understand the architecture and lines of a railway carriage or a bus body. It ends up looking like a dogs dinner or graffiti and anyone that dares to criticise is called out - which has happened today.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’m a gay man, but the problem with these so called diversity liveries is that they often look garish and I don’t feel they represent me. They are often designed by artists who may be talented in their own style but do not understand the architecture and lines of a railway carriage or a bus body. It ends up looking like a dogs dinner or graffiti and anyone that dares to criticise is called out - which has happened today.

Yes, and often by people who don’t really actually care about the criticism deep down, but decide having a go at those who criticise paints them as an ally. (Spoken by a bisexual man, for the record - who until recently actually used to use Avanti to visit his same sex partner.) Moral panic, it’s called.

Anyway, all 807s in service now when this one begins working, right?

 

[43066]

I get that there are some causes that the railway wants to support; however, surely the time, effort and money needs to go into meaningful improvements of substance as opposed to investing in what seems like cans of tutti frutti paint which have been thrown over the train.

The two things aren’t mutually exclusive, though; it isn’t as if they’re deciding to prioritise pride liveries over running trains on time.

I’m not a member of one of the groups it is representing, but that doesn’t mean I can’t understand the historical context that underpins the pride movement, and the progress it has achieved for those who have been poorly treated etc. It’s a strange thing for unaffected people to have a problem with - and very much standard dog whistling from the Telegraph.

 

[Nogoohwell]

It looks dreadful and agree with the comments that it does not sit well on a train. A mural at a station, now that would brighten up the place.
If a bespoke livery is needed to celebrate something such as this, then society is truly heading in the wrong direction. Everyone should feel welcome and included. Period.
I fear the more we try to celebrate inclusivity, the more ammunition it provides to the far right in society.
Back to the livery, it would look better if it was only applied to the lower half of the train. The white above and grey below makes a nice frame for the art work and makes it more prominent.

 

[Ethano92]

Sorry to go against the grain here, but this is an absolute waste of money and time.

I get that there are some causes that the railway wants to support; however, surely the time, effort and money needs to go into meaningful improvements of substance as opposed to investing in what seems like cans of tutti frutti paint which have been thrown over the train.

I don’t care what a train looks like, I want to get from A to B on a reliable service.

Of course I can’t speak for you, but what I can suggest is that if that is your reaction then the livery might not be for you. That doesn’t mean it’s a waste of money on tutti frutti paint. There are people in this country who the livery represents who will appreciate some acknowledgment, particularly in the current political climate. Same as the ‘thank you NHS’ liveries that sprung up during Covid on other TOCs which I didn’t hear the same complaints or articles about. I’d be surprised if people considered that a waste.

Ive been on platforms when the Avanti pride train rolls in (which is far more colourful than other TOCs pride trains) and passengers have made some rather crude comments when they realise its the train they’re getting on. Comments like that just reinforce why liveries celebrating diversity should exist.

Different projects, different budgets. It’s not as though Avanti haven’t just completed an extensive refurbishment of their 390s and ordered more trains which is exactly the meaningful improvement you’re claiming such liveries take funding away from. Both can exist in tandem.

That’s also not saying people can’t critique these liveries, but I’d suggest it’s somewhat naive to believe that people complain about these liveries for the way they sit on the train or how they’re designed, and not what the liveries represent.

 

[RedKing]

Special liveries are applied to raise awareness, so the Telegraph writing an article and a thread being created on here seems to suggest it's done exactly as it has intended.
I'm sure the money for this comes from a different departmental budget to one for "meaningful improvements of substance" and even if you argue "it all comes from the same pot", I doubt the money spent on this livery would really have made any significant changes elsewhere.

It baffles me that people get upset, concerned, 'triggered', or whatever else you want to be by this.
If you don't like it, don't pay attention to it. No harm, no foul. If you do like it, wonderful - it's done it's job.

 

[Sorcerer]

I think this livery is a bit of an eyesore and looks more like it would belong on a 1960s campervan for hippies rather than a 21st century train operator. Is it ghastly? That's a matter of personal taste, though I am certainly not a fan of the livery. Is it mere corporate virtue signalling? Maybe it is, they love preaching inclusivity and diversity these days, especially when June comes around. That's something for you the individual to determine.

Is it worth a moral outrage? Not really. Even if you find this kind of stuff annoying it most probably isn't going to have an effect on the quality of service, so it's not worth letting one's blood boil over it. At worse it might just be corporate virtual signalling, but you can just say "eh, whatever" and hope it just runs on time. For the average rail passenger, being picky over the livery is kind of a luxury.

 

[DarloRich]

If this is upsetting Torygraph common sense anti woke snowflake warriors AND enthusiasts I am all for it

TBH: it looks pretty garish but why let something like stickers upset you? There is more to life. Just move on. You cant see the stickers from the inside of the train and you wont catch woke mind virus from seeing the outside of a the train.

 

[Ollie29]

It's crazy that there has to be a full-on conversation about a train livery today! If you like it, cool. If you don't, who cares?

 

[Russel]

Yes, it’s blatant virtue signalling, nothing more nothing less. And it looks graffitied. Not a fan.

And as with most things like this, it's designed to make the company behind it look as if they care about the cause when in reality, it's just a good bit of PR.