Can Desiro doors be sped up?

[Meerkat]

What makes Desiro doors so cripplingly slow, and could this be sorted out during a refurb? They are presumably going to be around for sometime yet.

 

[The Planner]

It should be a requirement that all new trains have a quick door cycle. Its all very well having better performing trains until you lose the benefits in dwell times.

 

[Meerkat]

It should be a requirement that all new trains have a quick door cycle. Its all very well having better performing trains until you lose the benefits in dwell times.

It’s pretty crazy that it wasn’t a requirement for the Desiros considering their planned suburban commuting use on a very busy line!

 

[Recessio]

It should be a requirement that all new trains have a quick door cycle. Its all very well having better performing trains until you lose the benefits in dwell times.

Certainly on metro and inner suburban stock. Something like an intercity it may not matter too much. But it would be interesting to know what the "benefit" that led to the slower doors being used was - were they simply a lot cheaper?

 

[The Planner]

Certainly on metro and inner suburban stock. Something like an intercity it may not matter too much. But it would be interesting to know what the "benefit" that led to the slower doors being used was - were they simply a lot cheaper?

You would be surprised, if you could get a 90/120 second dwell down by 30 seconds, even on an intercity it can add up.

 

[Lloyds siding]

You would be surprised, if you could get a 90/120 second dwell down by 30 seconds, even on an intercity it can add up.

I don't think you understood the question.

 

[The Planner]

I don't think you understood the question.

Explain it to me then?

 

[Farnborough]

Also, why can't we have pre-select on doors in the UK?

On the continent, you can press the OPEN button before the doors are unlocked, and the door will open when appropriate - here we have to wait for the doors to be unlocked, and then press OPEN; pressing before unlock is ignored.

 

[amahy]

What makes Desiro doors so cripplingly slow, and could this be sorted out during a refurb? They are presumably going to be around for sometime yet.

Class 158s/159s say hello.

Also, why can't we have pre-select on doors in the UK?

On the continent, you can press the OPEN button before the doors are unlocked, and the door will open when appropriate - here we have to wait for the doors to be unlocked, and then press OPEN; pressing before unlock is ignored.

This is the case on metrolink trams in Manchester, I’d agree it would be good to have on trains.

 

[LowLevel]

Class 158s/159s say hello.


This is the case on metrolink trams in Manchester, I’d agree it would be good to have on trains.

158s are faster than Desiros - the 158s I work on had the doors modified and whilst air is still involved they make less noise and fuss and generally operate quite quickly - so they're an example of how the original product can sometimes be improved I guess. Not sure what they changed but there's a lot less hissing all round.

The asthmatic air operated Desiro doors have always been the slowest of the lot in my opinion.

 

[RichHI]

158s are faster than Desiros - the 158s I work on had the doors modified and whilst air is still involved they make less noise and fuss and generally operate quite quickly - so they're an example of how the original product can sometimes be improved I guess. Not sure what they changed but there's a lot less hissing all round.

The asthmatic air operated Desiro doors have always been the slowest of the lot in my opinion.

The 158/159 fleet are far superior to the 444’s on SWR in most respects. I think the German management played a factor in their Siemems fleet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 158/159 fleet are far superior to the 444’s on SWR in most respects.

I think that's very much a matter of opinion. Personally I think the 444 is the best express EMU the UK has ever seen. The slow doors are a minor irritant to be honest.

 

[RichHI]

I think that's very much a matter of opinion. Personally I think the 444 is the best express EMU the UK has ever seen. The slow doors are a minor irritant to be honest.

I think that's very much a matter of opinion. Personally I think the 444 is the best express EMU the UK has ever seen. The slow doors are a minor irritant to be honest.

Yes, I agree that preferences are inherently subjective. I really enjoyed the ride and comfort of the 442 5WES but I find the ride and comfort of First Class is much higher in the 158/159 stock than the 444. Now this could be an age issue as the Ride and Comfort of the HST and IC225 is much better than the latest Class 800/801/802/803.
I would say though that the 442 was not only smoother and more comfortable than the 444, it was also much faster and acceleration times though that was indeed aided by the higher speedlimits on the Waterloo Weymouth route back in the 80’s.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

On a somewhat related note, it is possible to massively speed up the closing of your local door on a Desiro by flicking a switch on the inside corner of the door whilst it is open. This causes a loud "hiss" sound and allows the door to close in about half the time once the key is off.

I'm unsure whether this works on doors that aren't keyed on, and to be honest I'm not even sure what the purpose of the switch is (I doubt its intention is to speed up the local door for guards). Is anybody able to enlighten me?

 

[saismee]

I don't personally see the issue, at least not for 350s due to their two door leaves. From looking at videos, the 444 seems a bit more sluggish, and the 700s are rapid. It doesn't seem to be an issue across all Desiro units.

You should try the FLIRTs! That extending step makes the door opening time unbelievably slow, especially as people inside can't see that anything is even happening.

 

[Lloyds siding]

Explain it to me then?

Looks like I pressed a button there....You commented on Recessio's post above ( #4). I can't speak for Recessio. but what I understand is the gist of Recessio's post is 'Why are the Desiros doors slower than the doors on metro and suburban stock? What is the benefit of them being slower?'
Which you've not answered....Glad to be of service....

 

[Silent]

It should be a requirement that all new trains have a quick door cycle. It’s all very well having better performing trains until you lose the benefits in dwell times.

Desiros do intercity services and run up to 110mph. I think dwell times matter a bit less with this service hence higher speed trains only have 2 doors per car for each stop.

I don't personally see the issue, at least not for 350s due to their two door leaves. From looking at videos, the 444 seems a bit more sluggish, and the 700s are rapid. It doesn't seem to be an issue across all Desiro units.

You should try the FLIRTs! That extending step makes the door opening time unbelievably slow, especially as people inside can't see that anything is even happening.

700’s use pocket doors, probably the fastest. I wonder why electrostars have faster plug doors. I guess they are usually for more suburban services though?

 

[saismee]

Desiros do intercity services and run up to 110mph. I think dwell times matter a bit less with this service hence higher speed trains only have 2 doors per car for each stop.


700’s use pocket doors, probably the fastest. I wonder why electrostars have faster plug doors. I guess they are usually for more suburban services though?

379s and 387s certainly operate commuter services, though I haven't really noticed anything specific about their doors. The only thing else I can comment on is that one of the 350s I was on had no hustle alarm and the doors seemed to slam shut quite violently compared to anything else I've used!

 

[The Planner]

Looks like I pressed a button there....You commented on Recessio's post above ( #4). I can't speak for Recessio. but what I understand is the gist of Recessio's post is 'Why are the Desiros doors slower than the doors on metro and suburban stock? What is the benefit of them being slower?'
Which you've not answered....Glad to be of service....

I wasn't aware I had to answer all of it. I'll remember that for the future.

Desiros do intercity services and run up to 110mph. I think dwell times matter a bit less with this service hence higher speed trains only have 2 doors per car for each stop.

It can do though, take 30 seconds off 6 stops and you have got 3 minutes. Thats a path on many lines.

 

[Silent]

I wasn't aware I had to answer all of it. I'll remember that for the future.


It can do though, take 30 seconds off 6 stops and you have got 3 minutes. Thats a path on many lines.

Yes possibly, was it as much a concern when ordering the trains 20 years ago.

379s and 387s certainly operate commuter services, though I haven't really noticed anything specific about their doors. The only thing else I can comment on is that one of the 350s I was on had no hustle alarm and the doors seemed to slam shut quite violently compared to anything else I've used!

I just notice that they just open and their doesn't seem to be a release of air that takes time compared to when i use a 350.

 

[Zomboid]

I think that's very much a matter of opinion. Personally I think the 444 is the best express EMU the UK has ever seen. The slow doors are a minor irritant to be honest.

For those kinds of runs, I can't think of anything I'd rather travel in than a 444. They'd have been ideal for the Norwich line too. A 110mph bi mode version would solve most of the rolling stock problems on Cross Country.

Certainly in my opinion as a passenger they're about as good as it's got in recent years.

 

[LUYMun]

I'd imagine maintenance costs have been kept to a minimum since the South Western Desiro's introduction, any speeding up would wear out the components faster.

 

[Recessio]

Looks like I pressed a button there....You commented on Recessio's post above ( #4). I can't speak for Recessio. but what I understand is the gist of Recessio's post is 'Why are the Desiros doors slower than the doors on metro and suburban stock? What is the benefit of them being slower?'
Which you've not answered....Glad to be of service....

Yes that's precisely what I wanted to know, thank you. And I still don't have an answer!

Why were such slow doors fitted to any train - was it simply a cost saving exercise? Even old BR stock years before that had faster sliding doors, and we've seen plug doors go much faster too (Electrostars, Aventras, even Networkers can be faster)

 

[Silent]

Yes that's precisely what I wanted to know, thank you. And I still don't have an answer!

Why were such slow doors fitted to any train - was it simply a cost saving exercise? Even old BR stock years before that had faster sliding doors, and we've seen plug doors go much faster too (Electrostars, Aventras, even Networkers can be faster)

I don’t believe that faster is always better. Sliding doors for example are fast but probably harder to make a sealed environment for hvac systems, even though it’s done with 700s.


This is an answer I’ve seen on an older question

Why are the doors so slow on desiros?

my local station is feltham so i get a mixture or 450s and 458s for reading or Windsor ER. One thing that I've noticed with the 458, despite it being slightly older, is that once the doors are released by the guard, they'll open instantly with the press of the button. On the other hand...

www.railforums.co.uk

I know this has come up before. The doors on the 395s take a noticeable amount of time to open too. I believe this is because of the pressure sealing (or something similar) that is released when the doors are released. Indeed you can sometimes sense people getting a little impatient behind you as though they think you haven't pressed the button!

Another answer

I'm pretty certain the pressure sealing on Voyagers/Meridians is speed activated, you can hear it acting as the train speeds up and slows down. Just a rough estimate, but I would say it happens at about 5-10mph

And some say that class 350/450 are air activated rather than electronically activated. Is there an advantage to electronically activated does as I know 09/s stock doors are electronic but older stock use air.