Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[ScotRail158725]

They can’t yet. With no frequency increase, LC only needed 17 for replacements. 441-446 were extra for the X19 while 447-463 are to replace 841-850 and 929-931, 933-936.

For everything to balance out with the BZL’s, 1033-1034 would need to head to Marine to balance 464-465.

Im sure 2 extra at Livi wouldn’t be that unnecessary and would future proof any further service increases

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Im sure 2 extra at Livi wouldn’t be that unnecessary and would future proof any further service increases

At the moment everything is maxed out though. There’s not really slack for that. That’d be 2 less deckers at one of the city garages which would be a disaster.

 

[stevenedin]

At the moment everything is maxed out though. There’s not really slack for that. That’d be 2 less deckers at one of the city garages which would be a disaster.

I'm guessing that all white buses will end up back at Lothian and some of the 57 reg (841-850) batch will temporarily come back into use to allow for movements and repaints.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I'm guessing that all white buses will end up back at Lothian and some of the 57 reg (841-850) batch will temporarily come back into use to allow for movements and repaints.

841-850 should be gone once the rest of the BZL’s are here. I think there’s a chance that 905-906 will be withdrawn at the end of the university year, which isn’t far away at all now.

It now looks as if 843-844 have actually been brought in to replace 934-935 directly rather than damage cover as I thought, so it is unlikely 934-935 will return to LC whatever happens. Those 4 remaining at LC due to be replaced (843, 844, 850 and 936) will be replaced by 451, 453, 454 and 461. Obviously 4 of the remaining 16 BZL’s will be needed for that.

Looking at Longstone with 933-935. It seems as if 2 of these are repaint/rack fitting cover for Airport spec’d MMC’s 601-615. 601-602 are currently being done. The third bus allowed 509 to be released to Seafield for the start of its ECB conversion work.

3 former Skylinks are currently at Seafield (498, 500 and 509). These will replace 3 of the remaining 13 Gemini2’s at ECB. 501-508 will replace 8 of the then 10 Gemini2’s left, while you’d think mathematically 933-935 when surplus at Longstone will be used to replace 842 plus the last 2 Gemini2’s at that point. It probably won’t work out that way, but certainly that’s how the maths adds up.

At the moment I am not sure what will happen with 936 however. It’s not needed at ECB based on the current numbers, and similarly I don’t think these white examples will be there long term either. I’m not sure why but certainly 426-437 and 496 would seem possible in the long run if further changes happen. It’s worth nothing that 496 is again not needed at ECB yet.

 

[CSB0241]

Apologies, it should have said for every 2 E400XLB, there would need to be 3 E12DDs

I had a feeling that’s what you meant.

Singapore is a completely different market and it's unlikely that a UK version of the U12DD will be configured to carry that many standees. It hasn't been launched here anyway, so there's no point in speculating any further on what is just a rumour!

Exactly. Lothian’s 7900Hs can supposedly hold (I believe) 45 people standing, though drivers just tend to just consider the bus full once it reaches about 15-20 standees.

I seem to remember someone mentioning it on here before that Marine are due BZL's for service 5 which to me would confirm that there is indeed a 2nd batch. It was also mentioned by operations manager Willie Hamilton on a depot tour a while back.

Wonder what other routes will get them. Suppose the 4/5/49 feel like the big ones, though I could definitely see the 15/45 getting them too.

841-850 should be gone once the rest of the BZL’s are here. I think there’s a chance that 905-906 will be withdrawn at the end of the university year, which isn’t far away at all now.

I’d have thought that they’d maybe have another wee while left in them, their mileage must be fairly low since they’ve basically just done 3 Bridges & Uni runs for the better part of a decade now. Suppose it’d make sense to get rid of them around the same time as the other remaining Geminis though.

It now looks as if 843-844 have actually been brought in to replace 934-935 directly rather than damage cover as I thought, so it is unlikely 934-935 will return to LC whatever happens. Those 4 remaining at LC due to be replaced (843, 844, 850 and 936) will be replaced by 451, 453, 454 and 461. Obviously 4 of the remaining 16 BZL’s will be needed for that.

What fleet movements do we see happening once all the BZLs are in service then, if any?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

What fleet movements do we see happening once all the BZLs are in service then, if any?

Central will need to lose 16 buses and we know 4 of that 16 will be 451, 453, 454 and 461.

The remaining 12 is a bit unknown, but if it were up to me would be 464-468 and 926-928 to Marine - with 926-928 for Uni Shuttle. Then 681-684 to Longstone. This would mean switching the 37 to B9TL’s and the 29 to MMC’s.

391-400 to Marine had been suggested previously, but again hard to tell.

 

[LiviCrazy]

The new style next stop announcements aren’t great for Lothian Country. They quite often are not announcing the stop until you are within 10 metres of it. Probably works for city buses which tend to stop at pretty much every stop, but really could do with being further in advance.

 

[stevenedin]

The new style next stop announcements aren’t great for Lothian Country. They quite often are not announcing the stop until you are within 10 metres of it. Probably works for city buses which tend to stop at pretty much every stop, but really could do with being further in advance.

I did notice this too and by the time you realise you could have passed the stop.

 

[ScotRail158725]

At the moment everything is maxed out though. There’s not really slack for that. That’d be 2 less deckers at one of the city garages which would be a disaster.

Was a wise idea purging all the 09/59 plate Geminis when they got rid of all the 57/08 plate Geminis i bet in hindsight they’re regretting that

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Was a wise idea purging all the 09/59 plate Geminis when they got rid of all the 57/08 plate Geminis i bet in hindsight they’re regretting that

I’ve always maintained that selling 301-350 was a mistake in hindsight. It’s limited the ability to properly increase the operations again. We’ve been in a situation now for around 2 years where the frequencies really needed to bounce and it hasn’t happened.

I understand at the time completely 301-350 would have been lying idle doing nothing and to store 50 buses on site for several months possibly into years would have been a challenge, but certainly I think there would have been space at say Newbridge to accommodate them.

 

[stevenedin]

Thankfully they still have 905-906, 926-936 (minus 932) and 841-850. They could hold onto them for longer if need be.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Noticed 424 in service today looks like its had a whole new rear?

 

[paul47B]

Does the 26 that leaves Clerwood at 09:10 spend the rest of the day as a 19 when it gets to Eastfield?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Does the 26 that leaves Clerwood at 09:10 spend the rest of the day as a 19 when it gets to Eastfield?

No it doesn't, though today the bus which ran it went out on the last 49 out the garage when it returned to Marine.

 

[Resuwen]

Saw repowered open topper 242 on the A1 westbound near Tranent this morning.

Any word when these will enter service?

Are Lothian likely to repower any regular diesel vehicles?

 

[paul47B]

No it doesn't, though today the bus which ran it went out on the last 49 out the garage when it returned to Marine.

Thanks for your very helpful and prompt reply.

 

[Numpt33]

Aside from the online Lothian “stylised” London Underground type like map, is there an up to date “traditional” bus map which shows all the routes and roads in a single view, rather than the route by route selection on the Lothian site?

You mean this?

https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Network_Map_250406.pdf

Or an updated version of this?

http://i.imgur.com/oR6KD36.jpg?1

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

You mean this?

https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Network_Map_250406.pdf

Or an updated version of this?

http://i.imgur.com/oR6KD36.jpg?1

The second one is what I think the OP is referring to.

 

[EMU303]

You mean this?

https://www.lothianbuses.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Network_Map_250406.pdf

Or an updated version of this?

http://i.imgur.com/oR6KD36.jpg?1

Yes, an updated version of the second one.

 

[Busman757]

I remember you used to be able to buy an actual road map with services on it.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I remember you used to be able to buy an actual road map with services on it.

I still have a couple. Brilliant maps. Believe they stopped about 2005. My newest one is from 2003.

 

[scosutsut]

Tap On Tap Off coming to Edinburgh Trams next week, mentioning it will allow Tap Tap Cap integration with Lothian Buses fares without a change to the process on the buses (remaining tap on only)

Coming Monday 19 May!

It will soon be easier than ever to pay for your tram journey – you will be able to use your contactless card or device to Tap On and Tap Off a tram to start and end your journey.

To use Tap On, Tap Off, tap your card or device against one of our existing Platform Validators before you board a tram, and tap again when you reach your destination to complete your journey. Journeys within the City Zone will be charged a standard single adult fare. When you make additional journeys throughout the day, we’ll cap your payments at the standard Cap rate of £5. The best part is, the system works in tandem with Lothian Buses, so you can hop from tram to bus and back again, and your fare will automatically cap out at the cost of a City DAY ticket.

Plus, if you travel for additional journeys in the same week (Mon-Sun) using the same card or device, once you’ve reached the weekly cap of £24.50, you won’t pay anything else for the rest of the week.

Good To Know​

• Any valid contactless enabled debit or credit card can be used, as well as Google & Apple Pay. Not sure if your card is contactless enabled? Look for the contactless symbol
• You MUST tap off the tram to complete your journey, or the journey will be registered as incomplete, and you’ll be charged the full Airport Zone fare of £7.90. This will not be included in daily or weekly capping.
• The same card or device MUST be used each time you tap on or off a tram, or tap on to a bus, or the daily and weekly fare caps will not apply
• Weekly calculation refreshes every Monday

Incomplete Journeys​

When you leave the tram at your destination, you must tap the same card or device against the platform validator to end your journey. If the card is not tapped off, the journey is registered as incomplete, and you’ll be charged a single Airport Zone fare of £7.90.

This is specific to the trams and will not apply to Lothian Buses’ existing tapping system.

Source: https://edinburghtrams.com/tap-tap

 

[CN04NRJ]

Tap On Tap Off coming to Edinburgh Trams next week, mentioning it will allow Tap Tap Cap integration with Lothian Buses fares without a change to the process on the buses (remaining tap on only)



Source: https://edinburghtrams.com/tap-tap

No mention of how this will work for airport fares between Airlink/Trams.

 

[LKF747R]

841-850 should be gone once the rest of the BZL’s are here. I think there’s a chance that 905-906 will be withdrawn at the end of the university year, which isn’t far away at all now.

It now looks as if 843-844 have actually been brought in to replace 934-935 directly rather than damage cover as I thought, so it is unlikely 934-935 will return to LC whatever happens. Those 4 remaining at LC due to be replaced (843, 844, 850 and 936) will be replaced by 451, 453, 454 and 461. Obviously 4 of the remaining 16 BZL’s will be needed for that.

Looking at Longstone with 933-935. It seems as if 2 of these are repaint/rack fitting cover for Airport spec’d MMC’s 601-615. 601-602 are currently being done. The third bus allowed 509 to be released to Seafield for the start of its ECB conversion work.

3 former Skylinks are currently at Seafield (498, 500 and 509). These will replace 3 of the remaining 13 Gemini2’s at ECB. 501-508 will replace 8 of the then 10 Gemini2’s left, while you’d think mathematically 933-935 when surplus at Longstone will be used to replace 842 plus the last 2 Gemini2’s at that point. It probably won’t work out that way, but certainly that’s how the maths adds up.

At the moment I am not sure what will happen with 936 however. It’s not needed at ECB based on the current numbers, and similarly I don’t think these white examples will be there long term either. I’m not sure why but certainly 426-437 and 496 would seem possible in the long run if further changes happen. It’s worth nothing that 496 is again not needed at ECB yet.

The Q2_2025 Lothian list is out in documents section (as a pdf file) of Lothian Buses website. But a search shows that bus 509 (SF17VPK) has been left out of list (from the unallocated depot vehicles on Page 11) presumably because it was only just moving from Longstone to Seafield for its ECB preparations when the snapshot of the Lothian stock was set for the Q2_2025 list. Thought I would mention it so that anyone who downloads the above pdf file is aware of this omission.

 

[Highland050261]

The Q2_2025 Lothian list is out in documents section (as a pdf file) of Lothian Buses website. But a search shows that bus 509 (SF17VPK) has been left out of list (from the unallocated depot vehicles on Page 11) presumably because it was only just moving from Longstone to Seafield for its ECB preparations when the snapshot of the Lothian stock was set for the Q2_2025 list. Thought I would mention it so that anyone who downloads the above pdf file is aware of this omission.

Interesting that 284-9 is still on the list.

 

[Bus9120UK]

The Q2_2025 Lothian list is out in documents section (as a pdf file) of Lothian Buses website. But a search shows that bus 509 (SF17VPK) has been left out of list (from the unallocated depot vehicles on Page 11) presumably because it was only just moving from Longstone to Seafield for its ECB preparations when the snapshot of the Lothian stock was set for the Q2_2025 list. Thought I would mention it so that anyone who downloads the above pdf file is aware of this omission.

Interestingly this list has a few inaccuracies which I'll correct here.
Bus 45 under Central - should be Marine.
Bus 671 under Central - should be Longstone.
Buses 450, 460 appear twice under CE and LV, CE records shouldn't be there.
Buses 44 and 46 should be under Marine, though appear at the end of the Longstone list in order with the Marine buses.
Buses 841-850 all under Livingston. 841/5/9 are out of use, 842 is at Musselburgh, 843/4/50 are the ones at Livingston. 846-848 are at Longstone being used by the driver school. 944 is in the line at Marine as well.
List is also yet to reflect 933-935 moving to Longstone.

The list doesn't have the training buses on it, including 15 and 23.

Also surprised 735e and 741e which have been pictured at Seafield are missing, while 721e is there, the first I've heard of it being at Lothian.

 

[stevenedin]

504 us also now at Seafield.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

504 us also now at Seafield.

Don’t think it’s for transfer work yet though. Has moved to Marine already which would suggest a mod or damage rather than a transfer.

 

[stevenedin]

Don’t think it’s for transfer work yet though. Has moved to Marine already which would suggest a mod or damage rather than a transfer.

504 is now down in Northumberland.

 

[Bus9120UK]

504 is now down in Northumberland.

It's being towed by a Thorntons truck down. Pleased they're accelerating these refurbishments by outsourcing some of them.