SWR after May

[The Ham]

‘Although the legal operator is changing, your experience won’t. You’ll continue to see the same branding, same services, and the same teams running your trains.’

I would note that it's entirely possible to "see the same branding' but still be in the process of branding changing, likewise "see the same services" whilst seeing extra services, it's even possible to "see the same teams running your trains" whilst they have a very different company ethos and management structure.

 

[moley]

The Sunday Times today states:

Bournemouth railway station was heralded as a triumph when it opened in 1885. Londoners flocked to the terminus on new express trains that enabled them to swap the smog of the capital for lungfuls of seaside air. This week, a depot near the station will play host to what Heidi Alexander, the transport secretary, hopes will be another “turning point for the future of our railways”.

On Thursday, she will unveil the first Great British Railways-branded train as South Western Railway (SWR) — which operates about 1,600 trains a day to more than 200 stations throughout the south and southwest of England — is brought into public ownership. It will be the first of ten train lines to be nationalised by Labour between now and October 2027.

So expect to see the new brand. This has been my understanding for a few weeks now.

 

[The Ham]

The Sunday Times today states:



So expect to see the new brand. This has been my understanding for a few weeks now.

Likewise, humans (generally) rely heavily on visual information, so not having images of trains showing new branding would have made the news story far less interesting.

 

[DelW]

The Sunday Times today states:
...
So expect to see the new brand. This has been my understanding for a few weeks now.

I wonder what type of train will be chosen? The SWR liveried units have by definition all been (re)painted within the last seven years or so, so are nowhere near due new paint yet.

Might one of the still SWT liveried diesels be chosen instead, thus skipping SWR colours completely? Though I suppose the "new GBR" train being an ex-BR diesel-powered unit might not be a good look!

A 701 would represent the only south western stock less than 20 years old, but they're hardly a good advert for the railway industry. Again they're nowhere near ready for repainting, so if chosen it would presumably just get a vinyl wrap.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I wonder what type of train will be chosen? The SWR liveried units have by definition all been (re)painted within the last seven years or so, so are nowhere near due new paint yet.

Might one of the still SWT liveried diesels be chosen instead, thus skipping SWR colours completely? Though I suppose the "new GBR" train being an ex-BR diesel-powered unit might not be a good look!

A 701 would represent the only south western stock less than 20 years old, but they're hardly a good advert for the railway industry. Again they're nowhere near ready for repainting, so if chosen it would presumably just get a vinyl wrap.

I highly doubt it's going to be a new livery. As was reported a few months ago, it's most likely going to be a logo on the side of the train, probably in the same spot as the "a first and mtr company" vinyl was.
I've heard rumours it's going to be a 444 - - slightly surprised it's not a 701 considering I assume they want the spin that they’re “fixing the problems of the previous franchise”, of which it was the headliner and has been in the run up to nationalisation too.

 

[ScottGallagher]

I highly doubt it's going to be a new livery. As was reported a few months ago, it's most likely going to be a logo on the side of the train, probably in the same spot as the "a first and mtr company" vinyl was.
I've heard rumours it's going to be a 444 - - slightly surprised it's not a 701 considering I assume they want the spin that they’re “fixing the problems of the previous franchise”, of which it was the headliner and has been in the run up to nationalisation too.

The fact it's rumoured to be in Bournemouth Depot suggests 450 or 444 , do 159s ever venture to Bournemouth Depot?
At least it's not yet another Waterloo ceremony with a brass band.

 

[Tobberz]

I can definitely see it being something like a 444 with the SWR logo stripped off, and "GBR" and the double-arrow stuck on the side.

Alternatively, it is possible that they'll choose one train to be a sort of "launch train", with a full - but not necessarily final - livery. Agree with earlier posts that Labour may consider this a major moment, so going all in on one train could work for the public image of it all.

 

[DelW]

Alternatively, it is possible that they'll choose one train to be a sort of "launch train", with a full - but not necessarily final - livery. Agree with earlier posts that Labour may consider this a major moment, so going all in on one train could work for the public image of it all.

That was my supposition. While the main fleet will almost certainly stay in SWR colours with a GBR patch in place of the SWR/FMTR logo and text, if DfT and ministers have a big launch event they'll be likely to want something more showy, even if it's just a one-off.

 

[vuzzeho]

It makes sense that it’s a 444 to me. They’re something of a flagship for SWR and I guess GBR wants to keep that going. I think this will slowly be rolled out over the ex-SWR fleet.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

701046 moved to Bournemouth on Friday as 5B39. I think there’s a pretty high chance it’s going to be that unit considering there’s no other reason for a 701 to go there.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I can definitely see it being something like a 444 with the SWR logo stripped off, and "GBR" and the double-arrow stuck on the side.

I completely agree that livery changes aren't a priority, but, I do think what you've just described there would give a really naff and underwhelming impression of an operation that's been hyped up to make major changes.

 

[moley]

701046 moved to Bournemouth on Friday as 5B39. I think there’s a pretty high chance it’s going to be that unit considering there’s no other reason for a 701 to go there.

How long does it take to apply a vinyl wrap livery to a 10 car train? The press event is Thursday morning. Doesn’t feel enough time.

 

[dgl]

I wish they would just go back to using the SWT branding, do a sort of Network South East. I believe the government own the SWT brand unless I am mistaken.

 

[moley]

Well NSE has recently been put on a SE Trains unit as part of Rail 200… weirder things could happen.

 

[Leyland Bus]

How long does it take to apply a vinyl wrap livery to a 10 car train? The press event is Thursday morning. Doesn’t feel enough time.

Aslong as they don't go mad, there's definitely enough time with enough people on the job. It'll certainly be interesting to see what emerges!

 

[Zomboid]

701046 moved to Bournemouth on Friday as 5B39. I think there’s a pretty high chance it’s going to be that unit considering there’s no other reason for a 701 to go there.

They might do more than one train. NSE was launched at Waterloo with a 455, a 50 and some mk1s.
Given this would be the first "hey look, we've nationalised it!" ceremony then I wouldn't be at all surprised if they went for it a bit more than a standard launch.

 

[Snow1964]

701046 moved to Bournemouth on Friday as 5B39. I think there’s a pretty high chance it’s going to be that unit considering there’s no other reason for a 701 to go there.

Is that one of the passenger units, or might they be dumb enough to try and launch a livery on a train the public can't actually use.

When Network SouthEast did its launch, it got the initially painted trains in use quickly spreading them on multiple routes.

 

[Zomboid]

Which would support them doing more than one train (if the 701 in question is an in service one) - use a 444 to get the brand all the way down to Weymouth (do they still go to Portsmouth?) and running around the London area wherever the 701s go.

 

[aron2smith]

I don't think that is an immediately achievable change. A clean and efficient railway that can be relied upon with 100% punctuality might be more tenable.

Practically irrelevant to current users of the railway who want to see immediate improvements, not projects in the distant future.

It isn't irrelevant to me! I expect whenever Crossrail 2 is given the go ahead, it'll take at least 10 years to open. Given the slow rate of building in this country, so any confirmation that it is definitely happening would be very welcome. Those of us in the fringes of Herts/ North London and Surrey would see a very big uplift in train services and that potential may give councils like mine, Broxbourne, a kick up the ass to move much faster in regenerating the area before they are replaced by whatever council, local government reorganisation gives us!

 

[swt_passenger]

… do 159s ever venture to Bournemouth Depot?

Yes, 158s and 159s do visit Bournemouth for certain routine overhaul work. There are Mon-Fri Salisbury<>Bournemouth Q paths (run as required) in the WTT.

 

[vuzzeho]

Which would support them doing more than one train (if the 701 in question is an in service one) - use a 444 to get the brand all the way down to Weymouth (do they still go to Portsmouth?) and running around the London area wherever the 701s go.

I don't know much about the SWR network and service patterns on it but could it be that the 701 is a commuter brand and a 444 is an intercity brand?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is that one of the passenger units, or might they be dumb enough to try and launch a livery on a train the public can't actually use.

701 046 is indeed one of the regular service units; I had it for haulage a couple of weeks ago.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

701 046 is indeed one of the regular service units; I had it for haulage a couple of weeks ago.

Relatively new to service too, only appeared a few months ago.

 

[Zomboid]

I don't know much about the SWR network and service patterns on it but could it be that the 701 is a commuter brand and a 444 is an intercity brand?

The 444 would be more of a long distance regional thing, if they're going to go that way. The Portsmouth and Weymouth lines aren't really long or fast enough for full fat "Intercity". (The same goes for the Exeter line, really).

If both types are involved then they certainly could be branded differently.

 

[Farnborough]

The Portsmouth and Weymouth lines aren't really long or fast enough for full fat "Intercity".

While I agree that "full fat Intercity" branding wouldn't make sense, Waterloo-Weymouth is 142 miles

This is longer than some of the former InterCity routes

 

[Zomboid]

While I agree that "full fat Intercity" branding wouldn't make sense, Waterloo-Weymouth is 142 miles

This is longer than some of the former InterCity routes

True, but the shorter routes I can think of (London to Norwich, Cardiff & Bristol, plus Gatwick Express) were express trains for their full distance.

Waterloo to Weymouth is a proper fast service to Southampton/ Bournemouth and then a local stopping service beyond, and the Portsmouth line is no more then "semi fast" at any point by the standards of full fat Intercity services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Waterloo to Weymouth is a proper fast service to Southampton/ Bournemouth and then a local stopping service beyond, and the Portsmouth line is no more then "semi fast" at any point by the standards of full fat Intercity services.

The Network SouthEast style of "fast to X, then all stations to Y" doesn't really fit into one of the standard categories. In Germany where these exist they just use two categories - IC to the point it stops being fast, then RE thereafter - that's what is/was done with the Berchtesgaden one, anyway.

As it doesn't have other elements of an IC service provision like catering and seat reservations, it would probably just make sense to call it Express, or whatever the brand for that ends up being. While the run is much longer it's a very similar thing indeed to say the Barrow and Windermere services, which would also logically fit under such a brand. But these services are all over the place - the faster WMT services on the WCML are examples too - semi fast to MKC then all or most stations thereafter.

 

[Mikey C]

The Javelin HS1 services are similar, in that they are (very) fast on HS1, but after Ashford (or even more so after Ebbsfleet) plod along the classic lines, serving most stops. And have no 1st class, seat reservations or catering either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Javelin HS1 services are similar, in that they are (very) fast on HS1, but after Ashford (or even more so after Ebbsfleet) plod along the classic lines, serving most stops. And have no 1st class, seat reservations or catering either.

It's a very common commuter service model in the UK, where commuting longer distances is far more common than in other parts of Europe. That said, DB did have a category called "StadtExpress" back in the 90s which was similar albeit over a shorter distance - fast to the end station of the S-Bahn, all stations thereafter. I think these just run as RegionalExpress now.

 

[Snow1964]

While I agree that "full fat Intercity" branding wouldn't make sense, Waterloo-Weymouth is 142 miles

This is longer than some of the former InterCity routes

And they are typically 2hr 46min to 3 hour which is longer time than many inter city services eg Cardiff-London.

The Weymouth-Gloucester services (GWR not SWR) are over 3hr 15min, so duration isn't really a factor though.