Increasingly sad state of London Underground trains - graffiti and disrepair

[yorksrob]

Who is selling this new ink ? Can the suppliers be made to stop selling it (or Bezos forced to stop importing it ?).

 

[mrmartin]

I wonder which lines will next receive the tagging treatment! Either the Northern or Piccadilly seem likely candidates. I always think that the Jubilee 1996TS fleet always seem very clean externally and internally. Seeing as the cleanliness of the 1995TS these days leaves a lot to be desired, I reckon they will be targeted next.

Northern is already getting hit hard.

 

[Ethano92]

Ok I think I know what is going on more now, reading some reddit comments.

Basically there is new graffiti 'ink' which is much more difficult to remove. Apparently only 2 people are responsible for nearly all of this initially on the interiors of trains (the redditor won't disclose who), but they've figured this out and it's much harder to clean off.

This has then caused loads of copycat incidents now and spiralled out of control.

Anyway TfL are going to have to do something. Because it's now spread to the northern line and I suspect every line will be done this summer and it is such a terribly obvious sign of decline for Starmer that I suspect serious resources will be put into tackling it.

When paying attention on the central lines, the trains have been hit pretty hard but it is indeed mostly the same few tags all over which would suggest it’s only a couple of groups responsible. In theory if that’s their new passion I can see how it would be pretty easy and quick to get through most of the fleet. With a pen you could run through a carriage in the space of only a stop or two, especially if the train is quiet.

 

[Meerkat]

When paying attention on the central lines, the trains have been hit pretty hard but it is indeed mostly the same few tags all over which would suggest it’s only a couple of groups responsible. In theory if that’s their new passion I can see how it would be pretty easy and quick to get through most of the fleet. With a pen you could run through a carriage in the space of only a stop or two, especially if the train is quiet.

And this is when you need to put up a reward to get a name and a face you can track…..
Not much point tagging stuff if no one knows it was you so some others must know who.

 

[73Stock]

The little metal number plates inside the Picc line carriages have started disappearing.

 

[Recessio]

The little metal number plates inside the Picc line carriages have started disappearing.

I remember seeing that happen in the last days of the 67 stock. So could be vandals, or could be overly enthusiastic enthusiasts... Either way it's still theft. (and also annoying as the carriage number is very useful to have if ever reporting a crime, such as reporting someone doing graffiti)

 

[bramling]

I remember seeing that happen in the last days of the 67 stock. So could be vandals, or could be overly enthusiastic enthusiasts... Either way it's still theft. (and also annoying as the carriage number is very useful to have if ever reporting a crime, such as reporting someone doing graffiti)

Enthusiastic enthusiasts is one thing, however I suspect the real reason is they get stolen, and then subsequently in the fullness of time appear on Ebay, where they can command reasonable sums of money. So in essence it’s something of a fraud, and really LU should monitor Ebay and get the police involved when these items do appear, as they no doubt will.

 

[Silent]

I notice the external graffiti seems to be getting cleaned off on the Bakerloo lines

 

[73Stock]

The exteriors of Bakerloo line appear to be getting ground down to bare metal.

 

[Silent]

The exteriors of Bakerloo line appear to be getting ground down to bare metal.

True I noticed the graffiti removed a few days on a train as the train looked scrubbed metal almost only to be graffitied again on the first carriage. Bakerloo line.

With the met lines around winter I noticed the paint job being yellowed and dirty that jubilee lines looked fresher in a way. Now though met line trains seem clean and white again though the logo and carriage numbers still looks faded.

 

[7522]

State of central line trains much much worse last week than when I was last in London in October. Loads of external graffiti, and every carriage with internal graffiti. Whole week was not on one carriage free of internal graffiti.

 

[sh24]

I've now seen a couple of less worse/deep cleaned Bakerloo trains. There is still scarring on the paintwork, and scratched glass, but many of the tags have been removed almost entirely. The 72 stock still look very tatty but not oppressive, at least.

 

[londontransit]

I notice the external graffiti seems to be getting cleaned off on the Bakerloo lines

Some carriages have been cleaned to such an extent that looks as if fresh paint has been applied. A special polish maybe?

 

[aron2smith]

Took the Central Line from Leytonstone to Loughton last week, graffiti all along the windows of the carriages, made me really angry seeing it like that and yet no else seemed bothered. I don't get it, the tube should be a wonder of the world and no one seems to care about the neglect no more, I don't get it!

 

[thomalex]

Took the Central Line from Leytonstone to Loughton last week, graffiti all along the windows of the carriages, made me really angry seeing it like that and yet no else seemed bothered. I don't get it, the tube should be a wonder of the world and no one seems to care about the neglect no more, I don't get it!

I think people are bothered but how exactly are you going to express that sat on the tube?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

You need to express your displeasure to the various levels of TfL , (of course they know about it) - not just "HQ" but surely there is some sort of General Manager for the line , knowledge of which used to made clear to customers.

As well as the other insterested parties such as London Travelwatch and can your MP be used to put even more pressure .........

 

[Recessio]

Took the Central Line from Leytonstone to Loughton last week, graffiti all along the windows of the carriages, made me really angry seeing it like that and yet no else seemed bothered. I don't get it, the tube should be a wonder of the world and no one seems to care about the neglect no more, I don't get it!

I think most people do care - passengers and staff. They're just also aware that TfL currently aren't being given the resources to deal with it. Managed Decline.

 

[Thirteen]

Perhaps customers should pay for it through increased fares?

 

[3rd rail land]

Perhaps customers should pay for it through increased fares?

Fares are already high. Graffiti used to be removed from trains when fares were lower. Its manged decline, its as simple as that and increasing fares won't see extra money poured into solving the issue on a more permanent basis.

 

[Mikey C]

Fares are already high. Graffiti used to be removed from trains when fares were lower. Its manged decline, its as simple as that and increasing fares won't see extra money poured into solving the issue on a more permanent basis.

Not when compared to 10 years ago in real terms though. Especially when compared to National Rail fares

 

[mrmartin]

Not when compared to 10 years ago in real terms though. Especially when compared to National Rail fares

Exactly. The mayor made the political decision to freeze fares and fund it through business rates instead. Fine; but then the pandemic hit and business rate takings nosedived.

This is a real problem with devolution imo. It gives the mayor all the happy headlines for a freeze in fares and then when it goes wrong (obviously he couldn't have predicted a pandemic, but it was a huge gamble anyway given the economic uncertainty around then with Brexit etc) everyone just blames central government. And of course central government go "that's the Mayors job".

At the end of the day any "managed decline" is a political decision from the Mayor when it comes down to it. He is not using all the revenue powers he has available to him, so imo if the network declines it's on him. Obviously central government play a (huge) part in this - but it feels very have your cake and eat it to blame central government while simultaneously not using the revenue raising powers to the fullest.

For example, he could very easily (legally, not politically) turn all of ULEZ into a congestion charging zone and raise many billions overnight for TfL if he wanted. Even a £250/year "season ticket" would bring in a huge amount of revenue. He has other powers that he doesn't use like workplace parking levy too.

 

[Recessio]

Exactly. The mayor made the political decision to freeze fares and fund it through business rates instead. Fine; but then the pandemic hit and business rate takings nosedived.

This is a real problem with devolution imo. It gives the mayor all the happy headlines for a freeze in fares and then when it goes wrong (obviously he couldn't have predicted a pandemic, but it was a huge gamble anyway given the economic uncertainty around then with Brexit etc) everyone just blames central government. And of course central government go "that's the Mayors job".

At the end of the day any "managed decline" is a political decision from the Mayor when it comes down to it. He is not using all the revenue powers he has available to him, so imo if the network declines it's on him. Obviously central government play a (huge) part in this - but it feels very have your cake and eat it to blame central government while simultaneously not using the revenue raising powers to the fullest.

For example, he could very easily (legally, not politically) turn all of ULEZ into a congestion charging zone and raise many billions overnight for TfL if he wanted. Even a £250/year "season ticket" would bring in a huge amount of revenue. He has other powers that he doesn't use like workplace parking levy too.

The cut in central government subsidy is multiple times greater than the money lost due to the fares freeze. London gets significantly less money from government (and has to raise more from fares) than most other comparable major cities. The fares freeze hasn't helped, but I can understand why it was done, especially bus fares which tend to be used by people withower incomes. Those cuts are why we have managed decline - it is politically extremely difficult, if not sometimes morally difficult, to keep raising fares which can act as a regressive tax, when central government has cut your funding compared to any other comparable city.

 

[JamesT]

The cut in central government subsidy is multiple times greater than the money lost due to the fares freeze. London gets significantly less money from government (and has to raise more from fares) than most other comparable major cities. The fares freeze hasn't helped, but I can understand why it was done, especially bus fares which tend to be used by people withower incomes. Those cuts are why we have managed decline - it is politically extremely difficult, if not sometimes morally difficult, to keep raising fares which can act as a regressive tax, when central government has cut your funding compared to any other comparable city.

The central government subsidy was replaced by business rates retention. TfL is getting over £2bn from that, which is more than the grant was.

 

[73Stock]

I took some photos of the Bakerloo interiors last week but I'm in two minds whether to post on Flickr, etc.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

Unless you heavily blur out the tagged parts, I wouldn't recommend it. It's free promotion for their acts of vandalism and might encourage more. But it's up to you of course.

 

[73Stock]

I won't bother.

 

[ScotGG]

TfL are in surplus this year and last so they have additional scope/funds for cleaning, which in the overall budget is hardly a great expense.

Anyway if TfL need money raise the free travel age past 60. That cohort are generally wealthier than the under 40s these days who pay sky high housing costs relative to average wages and student loan repayment while never benefitting from house price booms, access to social housing and free university tuition.

 

[mrmartin]

Yes agreed. I feel it's laughable that some are writing that train cleaning in the worlds 2nd biggest financial centre is unaffordable and impossible to resolve.

 

[Russel]

Anyway if TfL need money raise the free travel age past 60. That cohort are generally wealthier than the under 40s these days who pay sky high housing costs relative to average wages and student loan repayment while never benefitting from house price booms, access to social housing and free university tuition.

Totally agree, but I feel it would be politically toxic, we've seen the backlash to changes to the winter fuel allowance.

 

[MatthewHutton]

Totally agree, but I feel it would be politically toxic, we've seen the backlash to changes to the winter fuel allowance.

I think TfL raising the free travel age for pensioners to the pension age would be pretty easy to justify.