I received a travel irregularity email from Ga and responded

[Jeff233]

I first received an email and responsed and after speaking to others I realised I shouldn’t so I panicked and didn’t answer the email and they sent me another email saying

Our system has highlighted multiple tickets between point A and point B Town either being purchased on board the trains or on arrival at destination. These tickets have been scanned on the barriers just after purchase in order to exit the station. These tickets are not valid. This was flagged as possible fraudulent travel.

Data suggests you may be travelling between point A and B therefore, we are led to believe that you may not be paying the fare for your full journeys on few occasions.

Could you explain your full journeys, please?

In addition, we have no record on our database of your 16-17 Saver and 16-25 Railcards. Could you provide evidence of your entitlement to cover the periods as per below:

• 16-17 Saver railcard: December 2022-September 2024
• 16-25 Railcard: September 2022-April 2025

This could either be an email confirmation or from your railcard account.
I am not sure how to respond without incriminating myself further I do have a 16-25 railway card but in the past I have purchased tickets using 16-17 for other people but I can see how it looks bad on my account and I’m really worried I don’t want this to escalate to a prosecution case any guidance would be highly appreciated

 

[ikcdab]

The general advice is to ignore these types of fishing emails.
Unless you are actually caught red-handed, they would find it very difficult to prove anything against you.
What did you say in your first response?

 

[Jeff233]

The general advice is to ignore these types of fishing emails.
Unless you are actually caught red-handed, they would find it very difficult to prove anything against you.
What did you say in your first response?

Hello,

I recently received an email stating that I have not been paying full fares on Greater Anglia services. I believe this may be a mistake, and I would appreciate some clarification on the matter.
Could you please provide more details about what I am being suspected of, so I can better understand the situation?
Kind regards,
But after I sent the mail is when I realised I shouldn’t not have said anything

 

[AlterEgo]

Stop responding. They’ll send more emails. Ignore all of them. And buy the proper fare.

 

[Jeff233]

Stop responding. They’ll send more emails. Ignore all of them. And buy the proper fare.

I ignored the first email and they sent me this
Good afternoon,

This email is to remind you that we are yet to receive a response from you to explain your journeys and providing the evidence requested of your 16-17 saver railcard and 16-25 railcard.

If no confirmation of a valid railcard can be produced, we would have to assume you did not hold a valid railcard at the time of purchase. This is an offence under section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

Please respond to this email within 5 days, otherwise we will be forced to pass this case to the Prosecution Department or the British Transport Police for further action to be taken.

 

[AlterEgo]

I ignored the first email and they sent me this
Good afternoon,

This email is to remind you that we are yet to receive a response from you to explain your journeys and providing the evidence requested of your 16-17 saver railcard and 16-25 railcard.

If no confirmation of a valid railcard can be produced, we would have to assume you did not hold a valid railcard at the time of purchase. This is an offence under section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

Please respond to this email within 5 days, otherwise we will be forced to pass this case to the Prosecution Department or the British Transport Police for further action to be taken.

Ignore it. Ignore all further emails.

 

[Jeff233]

Ignore it. Ignore all further emails.

Okay thank you

 

[3rd rail land]

It sounds like you have not done anything you shouldn't have but buying discounted tickets for other people can look suspicious. If you have been using invalid tickets you obviously should stop doing this immediately.

Also, stop buying tickets for other people. Why can't they buy their own tickets? If you are paying for them then give them the money to buy tickets themselves.

As others have said ignore all further correspondence. There is no benefit to yourself in responding. They would have to prove any wrongdoing and it will be tricky for them to do so, if indeed you have done anything wrong at all.

 

[saismee]

Have you actually responded (it's unclear in your post)? It's in your best interest to not respond to this email, especially if you're innocent.

Have you ever been stopped by any form of revenue protection at a station while travelling with an invalid ticket and had your details taken (even if unrelated)? If you haven't you can continue to ignore these emails. They'll continue to use more threatening wording but they don't actually have proof that you travelled on an invalid ticket, so they have no grounds to prosecute.

Read through some of the other posts about these fishing emails. They're mostly about WMT, but it applies here also.

Had this all written and then the thread disappeared. It doesn't look like you've self-incriminated so you should be fine to ignore future emails, but keep in mind that they will become more threatening over time in an attempt to get you to incriminate yourself. Even if they mention the police, prosecution, or jail time, it's all a bluff to get you to admit to something - ignore it.

Also, stop buying tickets for other people. Why can't they buy their own tickets? If you are paying for them then give them the money to buy tickets themselves.

There's nothing wrong with doing this. I disagree that OP should stop buying tickets for others and I'm sure that others would agree with me. Just don't travel with invalid tickets at any point and it won't come back up.

 

[Egg Centric]

And buy the proper fare.

This bit is exceptionally important now you're on their radar.

 

[furlong]

"These tickets are not valid" is highly misleading if not false - there might be some other problem such as buying the wrong ticket, but the two things they mention, namely buying on board or at your destination obviously cannot make a ticket invalid! As such, I'd suggest that no company should have written that - and certainly not in the course of a declared criminal investigation. They should be well aware that what they are doing here is wrong - and if it ever reached court the company's methodology - relying on apparent falsehoods to try to elicit information - ought to be challenged.

 

[Jeff233]

i have been given fines in the past but i don’t know if that makes a difference and they have taken my details before
they also mentioned
Data suggests you may be travelling between Point A and London Liverpool Street; therefore, we are led to believe that you may not be paying the fare for your full journeys on few occasions.
So I’m not sure if this means I’ve been accused of something

 

[Egg Centric]

i have been given fines in the past but i don’t know if that makes a difference

Depends - are these all settled?

 

[Jeff233]

Depends - are these all settled?

Yes long time ago

 

[furlong]

If no confirmation of a valid railcard can be produced, we would have to assume you did not hold a valid railcard at the time of purchase. This is an offence under section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

This is also false: there is no explicit requirement to hold a valid railcard at the time of ticket purchase. They would certainly not "have to assume" what they say there.

The requirements occur when travelling (or attempting to travel).

At the time of purchase, the requirement is merely not to *intend* to travel without a valid ticket (including valid accompanying railcard) - and how in practice would you prove someone intended to travel without some additional evidence saying or indicating exactly that?

 

[Egg Centric]

Yes long time ago

In that case advice remains the same - but do bear in mind if you are caught doing something again then you can expect the book to be thrown at you, with payment for two investigations as well as all the fares involved to avoid a conviction.

In the meantime expect the emails to get increasingly aggressive as they get more desperate - then one day to suddenly stop.

 

[Jeff233]

Alright I will take in the advice and drop it thanks everyone

 

[furlong]

(The emails people are showing on threads such as this one are highly concerning and I think this whole approach would benefit from a proper legal review. The idea of making these sorts of enquiries is sound but the implementation appears quite flawed, which risks undermining the whole exercise. And once again my challenge would be to pick up and act on the anomalies in the data in real time - trying to prevent the crimes rather than merely detecting them months afterwards and relying on admissions! Why not flag up that a particular ticket purchase looks dodgy: "Are you really sure this is the ticket you need and it's not this other ticket?")

 

[Egg Centric]

Why not flag up that a particular ticket purchase looks dodgy: "Are you really sure this is the ticket you need and it's not this other ticket?"

As with many things, because of perverse individual and organisational incentives.

It'll be interesting to see where it goes with GBR. My guess would be a more punitive TfL style approach.

 

[Jeff233]

(The emails people are showing on threads such as this one are highly concerning and I think this whole approach would benefit from a proper legal review. The idea of making these sorts of enquiries is sound but the implementation appears quite flawed, which risks undermining the whole exercise. And once again my challenge would be to pick up and act on the anomalies in the data in real time - trying to prevent the crimes rather than merely detecting them months afterwards and relying on admissions! Why not flag up that a particular ticket purchase looks dodgy: "Are you really sure this is the ticket you need and it's not this other ticket?"

Your right

Have you actually responded (it's unclear in your post)? It's in your best interest to not respond to this email, especially if you're innocent.

Have you ever been stopped by any form of revenue protection at a station while travelling with an invalid ticket and had your details taken (even if unrelated)? If you haven't you can continue to ignore these emails. They'll continue to use more threatening wording but they don't actually have proof that you travelled on an invalid ticket, so they have no grounds to prosecute.

Read through some of the other posts about these fishing emails. They're mostly about WMT, but it applies here also.

Had this all written and then the thread disappeared. It doesn't look like you've self-incriminated so you should be fine to ignore future emails, but keep in mind that they will become more threatening over time in an attempt to get you to incriminate yourself. Even if they mention the police, prosecution, or jail time, it's all a bluff to get you to admit to something - ignore it.


There's nothing wrong with doing this. I disagree that OP should stop buying tickets for others and I'm sure that others would agree with me. Just don't travel with invalid tickets at any point and it won't come back up.

Yes I have (in regards to being stopped by a revenue protection team)

 

[saismee]

Yes I have (in regards to being stopped by a revenue protection team)

@AlterEgo will likely be able to give the best advice now. Were you ever issued a travel irregularity notice/report or interviewed under caution? Or were these just penalty fare noticed which were paid? This affect the outcome of ignoring the emails, so please give truthful information. You stated that you bought tickets for others, but also that you've been stopped before. To give the best advice, we need the full story which includes whether you have evaded your fare before.

 

[Jeff233]

@AlterEgo will likely be able to give the best advice now. Were you ever issued a travel irregularity notice/report or interviewed under caution? Or were these just penalty fare noticed which were paid? This affect the outcome of ignoring the emails, so please give truthful information. You stated that you bought tickets for others, but also that you've been stopped before. To give the best advice, we need the full story which includes whether you have evaded your fare before.

To be honest I don’t think so I know I have paid fines one was I did have a ticket but the revenue inspector claimed it was invalid cause that time i accidentally did use the wrong railcard but after that incident i have been very careful to not make that mistake again and it wasn’t with GA

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Just to clarify the position and your options. You basically have two choices:

1. Do nothing. Greater Anglia will continue to write to you threatening police involvement, prosecution for fraud etc. The important principle here is that purchasing tickets is not illegal but using tickets illegally is illegal. In order to successfully prosecute you Greater Anglia has to demonstrate to a court that you used the tickets and they are unlikely to be able to do this unless they caught you red handed. It's possible (but unlikley) that Greater Anglia does have evidence to link you to the use of the tickets such as CCTV.

2. Engage with Greater Anglia. They will offer you an out of court settlement costing if you pay them the fare for the journeys you've made using invalid tickets. They will charge you the full Anytime rate pus ad admin fee, typically £150. If you pay what they ask that will be the ed of the matter.

Only you can decide what to do. Essentially it comes down to your appetite for risk...