Trivia - Trains where you can/can't hold down button to open doors.

[pokemonsuper9]

I've put this as trivia because even though this can be useful, it saves a second or two at most.

"if you hold down the open button before and while the doors are released, they open as soon as released" thing from the Sprinters (and 800s) works on 197s (it doesn't - you just have to press the open button as soon as possible after the doors are released, like on 170s).

I've been doing this myself when I have a chance but I've not written down my results, so have forgotten most of them. I'm including any UK trains (past, present or future), trains currently in service (in that configuration) will be in bold, non-NR (e.g. London Underground, any trams) are allowed.
This is separated into 4 categories:

Spoiler: Definitions

This section contains definitions for the categories:

No interaction - Trains where all the doors will be opened without passenger interaction
This is further divided into 4 sub-categories
- No buttons - No passenger buttons at all, door control is entirely by staff.
- Unused buttons - Passenger buttons, but do not work, door control is entirely by staff.
- Buttons just for re-opening/early closing - Doors are all opened by staff, but may be closable or re-openable (e.g. if they close to keep air con in)
- Auto in some places - Either where some stations (E.g. Elizabeth Line underground) or where it is the driver's decision (e.g. Nottingham trams) if to have passengers use the buttons or not, if a train is in this category, it should also be in another category for how it works outside of auto mode.

Pre-arm - Tap or breifly hold the button at a time when the door is not unlocked and it will open when unlocked.

Hold button - Hold the open button down before/as it is unlocked and it will open immediately when unlocked.

Button after unlock - Does not fit into either of the above.

I'll add any contributions to the below sections:

Spoiler: No interaction

Spoiler: No buttons

Class 139 (single door on each side, opened/closed by guard)
314
507/508(/1).
LU 1959/1967/1972/1973/1995 (modified)/1996 (modified)/2009/A60/A62/C69 and C77 stock.
Glasgow Subway G2 and G3 stock.
Southend Pier Railway
Birmingham / Gatwick / Heathrow / Luton / Stansted airport shuttles

Spoiler: Unused buttons

LU 1938/1992/1995 (as built)/1996 (as built)/D78 stock
508(/2,/3) when used by Merseyrail

Spoiler: Buttons just for re-opening/early closing

LU S7/S8 - Unless passenger mode selected by driver
2024 Stock

Spoiler: Auto in some places

345 - Crossrail tunnels
700 - Thameslink core
Nottingham Trams - Driver's choice
West Midlands Urbos 3 - Driver's choice
Electrostar - 357 375 376 377 378 379 387 - Driver's choice (very rare)

Spoiler: Pre-arm

777 (as built)
555
Manchester Metrolink M5000
Blackpool Flexity 2
Newer West Midlands Urbos 3 - If opening all not chosen by driver

Spoiler: Hold button

Mark 4 coaches (Mk4)
Pacer - 142,
Sprinter - 150/153/155/156/158/159
165/166
Turbostar - 172/(2,3)
Desiro - 185/350/360/380/444/450
Voyager - 220/221/222
318/320
323
Coradia - 334, 458, 460
Electrostar - 377/(6,7), 379, 387
455
456
508(/2,/3)
AT300 - (Class 395/800/801/802/803/805/807/810)
All DLR trains.
Tyne and Wear Metrocar (599)
Nottingham Citadis Trams
Older West Midlands Urbos 3 - If opening all not chosen by driver

Spoiler: Button after unlock

Turbostar - 168, 170, 171, 172/(0,1)
Civity - 195, 196, 197, 331
301,
Aventra - 345 (outside tunnels)
Electrostar - 357, 375, 376, 377/(1,2,3,4,5), 378.
AT200 - 385
Desiro City - 700, 707, 717
Nottingham Incentro Trams

 

[DanNCL]

It may be worth splitting no interaction into three categories - one for stock without buttons at all, one for stock that has buttons which serve no purpose, and one for stock that has buttons that are be used either after the door has automatically closed (but is still released) or on certain parts of the network where the doors don’t automatically open.

No buttons:
Class 507/508.
LU 1938/1959/1967/1972/1973/1995 (modified)/1996 (modified)/2009/A60/A62/C69 and C77 stock.
Glasgow Subway G2 and G3 stock.

Unused buttons:
LU 1992/1995 (as built)/1996 (as built)/D78 stock

Automatic under some conditions:
Class 345 in Crossrail tunnels
Class 700 on Thameslink core
LU S7/S8 and 2024 Stock
This capability is also thought to exist on Class 555 but is unused.

Some others too:
Hold button:
Class 142, Class 599 Metrocar, Mark 4 coaches

 

[pokemonsuper9]

It may be worth splitting no interaction into three categories - one for stock without buttons at all, one for stock that has buttons which serve no purpose, and one for stock that has buttons that are be used either after the door has automatically closed (but is still released) or on certain parts of the network where the doors don’t automatically open.

Good idea, I've split it out within the first Cateogory.

I've also made it so that trains in active service (non-heritage) are in bold.

 

[DanNCL]

Just to clarify for the S and 2024 stocks, the doors automatically open at every station but close after a certain amount of time (60 seconds?), the buttons are for passengers to re-open the doors after that time. It’s only really termini where the doors are released long enough for that to happen.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Just to clarify for the S and 2024 stocks, the doors automatically open at every station but close after a certain amount of time (60 seconds?), the buttons are for passengers to re-open the doors after that time. It’s only really termini where the doors are released long enough for that to happen.

I think I remember something about S8 doors not opening automatically in the very far away areas, I assumed that occurred for the S7 and 2024 based on your post, if that's not the case than "buttons just for re-opening/early closing" probably deserves its own sub-category.

 

[dodecahedron67]

185s will open on hold, which I imagine will mean so will 350/360/444/450s

 

[Dstock7080]

No buttons:
Class 507/508.
LU 1938/1959/1967/1972/1973/1995 (modified)/1996 (modified)/2009/A60/A62/C69 and C77 stock

1938 Stock had PDC buttons from new.

I think I remember something about S8 doors not opening automatically in the very far away areas, I assumed that occurred for the S7 and 2024 based on your post, if that's not the case than "buttons just for re-opening/early closing" probably deserves its own sub-category.

S Stock are able to be put into passenger only mode but it is discouraged.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

S Stock are able to be put into passenger only mode but it is discouraged.

If it's discouraged then I think I'll have it in the just for reopening/early closing section, with a note next to it.

185s will open on hold, which I imagine will mean so will 350/360/444/450s

I've added all of them, and also added family members where they'll be very similar types of train (so all Hitachi AT300s, Turbostars, and the regional Civities.

 

[Purple Train]

Class 165s (and presumably 166s) will open on hold. Class 345s will not, when not automatic, if you're allowed to put them into multiple categories.

 

[stadler]

This is the situation with Electrostar trains:

On these trains you can hold down the button before the driver releases the doors and the doors will open as soon as the driver presses the release button:

some subclasses of 377 (377/6 377/7), all 379, all 387.

On these trains you can only push the button after the driver releases the doors and if you hold it down before then it will not open and you have to lift your finger off and press it again to open:

some subclasses of 377 (377/1 377/2 377/3 377/4 377/5), all 301, all 357, all 375, all 376, all 378, all 379.

 

[tram21]

Hold button: NET Tram Citadis units. The other units, the Incentros, have a 'pad' to open the door which don't really work to hold them down. It'd in theory be possible.

At busy times the drivers generallt open all the doors anyway, but it depends on the driver!

Blackpool trams have pre-arm.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Class 455 you can hold down and the doors will open as soon as they are cut in - provided you are still holding the button down. They don't pre-arm or anything.

 

[Peter0124]

318/320/334/380 can all be held
385 on the other hand is an absolute pain to open/close

 

[AJDesiro]

The open buttons on the 323 can be held to open on release, and I can confirm the assumption that this occurs on the 350s above. I believe the 22x have it as well, however it’s been a while since I’ve tried so my memory may be deceiving me.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

if you're allowed to put them into multiple categories

Yes, for exactly that kind of situation putting them in multiple is fine.

some subclasses of 377 (377/1 377/2 377/3 377/4 377/5), all 301, all 357, all 375, all 376, all 378, all 379.

some subclasses of 377 (377/6 377/7), all 379, all 387.

It looks like 379 is in both categories there (I've left them out of either until someone can confirm)?

I believe the 22x have it as well, however it’s been a while since I’ve tried so my memory may be deceiving me.

As long as someone says it, I'm happy to add it and if it's wrong I'll correct it.

Thanks for the contributions so far everyone!
I've added family names in a few places.

 

[stadler]

Yes, for exactly that kind of situation putting them in multiple is fine.


It looks like 379 is in both categories there (I've left them out of either until someone can confirm)?

As long as someone says it, I'm happy to add it and if it's wrong I'll correct it.

Thanks for the contributions so far everyone!
I've added family names in a few places.

Sorry that is a typo. 379 should only be in the first list. 379 is the same as 377/6 and 377/7 and 387 and allows you to hold down the button.

 

[tfw756rider]

Great stuff @pokemonsuper9!

Just to be clear, does pre-arm mean you can press (not hold) the button before the doors are released, and then they open as soon as they're released?

Also, is the entire AT300 production from 395 all the way to 810 confirmed as being open on hold, or are there some assumptions in there?

 

[DanNCL]

Also, is the entire AT300 production from 395 all the way to 810 confirmed as being open on hold, or are there some assumptions in there?

800/801/802/803 definitely all are.

 

[800Travel]

800/801/802/803 definitely all are.

I've always found you have to press and keep holding all the way till the driver releases the doors, then they come open immediately, on 801s?

 

[DanNCL]

I've always found you have to press and keep holding all the way till the driver releases the doors, then they come open immediately, on 801s?

Yes that’s right.

 

[DJames]

If you're including trams, the newer CAF Urbos 3 trams on the West Midlands Metro allow you to pre-select a door, pushing the button causes the button to flash (and the Stopping sign to light up - which is never actually used as there's no request stops), and that door opens at the next stop. Often times it's not needed regardless, as you'll often see the driver open all the doors.

The original batch of Urbos 3s, with the green and pink interior, don't have this though, but as they're touch buttons, you can just hold it down and open the door straight away once released.

 

[Mat17]

What were 303/311 and 306/506 units?

 

[Skie]

The 777s don’t auto open anywhere. They were supposed to do it in the core Liverpool stations according to Merseytravel in their comms before the new trains were delivered, but in operation it doesn’t happen unfortunately.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Just to be clear, does pre-arm mean you can press (not hold) the button before the doors are released, and then they open as soon as they're released?

Pre-arm means you just need to tap (holding works) the button at some point between the stops and it'll open when unlocked.
I've added a definition section at the bottom.

Also, is the entire AT300 production from 395 all the way to 810 confirmed as being open on hold, or are there some assumptions in there?

Yes I assumed based on the 800 confirmation in the originally quoted message, but I can see 800-803 are now confirmed.

If you're including trams

I absolutely am, as well as any other rail but not National Rail endeavors that have powered doors (e.g. Southend Pier).


The idea I'm working on is that someone could open up all the tabs and then search (control+F on PC) for the train they're on (if they so wish).
It's a very minor inconvenience to have to hold your hand above the button rather than resting on it.

 

[Thames99]

On Metrolink trams you can press the button before reaching a stop. It then flashes and opens as soon as the driver releases the doors. This sounds the same as DJames mentioned for West Midlands trams in post 21.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

On Metrolink trams you can press the button before reaching a stop. It then flashes and opens as soon as the driver releases the doors. This sounds the same as DJames mentioned for West Midlands trams in post 21.

Yes, that's why they're together in pre-arm.

 

[stadler]

Another thing to point out is that all Electrostar trains (357 375 376 377 378 379 387) all have an automatic open feature too (just like the EL core 345 and TL core 700 trains). The button is next to the door release buttons on the drivers controls (there is a red button above that says open doors). It is rarely used but you do occasionally see it. The most common use is for when the driver reopens the doors for a late running passenger. Sometimes after dividing or attaching trains they will also use it. Another use sometimes is at originating stations if a lot of people are waiting on the platform for the train to be unlocked. It depends on the driver and it is certainly not common but i see the automatic open feature get used on Electrostar trains probably once every few months.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Another thing to point out is that all Electrostar trains (357 375 376 377 378 379 387) all have an automatic open feature too (just like the EL core 345 and TL core 700 trains). The button is next to the door release buttons on the drivers controls (there is a red button above that says open doors). It is rarely used but you do occasionally see it. The most common use is for when the driver reopens the doors for a late running passenger. Sometimes after dividing or attaching trains they will also use it. Another use sometimes is at originating stations if a lot of people are waiting on the platform for the train to be unlocked. It depends on the driver and it is certainly not common but i see the automatic open feature get used on Electrostar trains probably once every few months.

I think as long as it gets used at all it should go on the list, although I imagine a lot of units will then fit into the "rarely" category.

 

[MattSGB]

It's tragic that I know this, but the 172s operate differently dependent on the batch. The original WMT 172s with gangways (/2 and /3 - the ones identifiable by grey seat frames) are "hold to open". The Chiltern and the London Overground units without gangways (/0 and /1- blue or white seat frames) are "button after unlock". No idea why there would be a difference with the behaviour.

 

[tfw756rider]

Pre-arm means you just need to tap (holding works) the button at some point between the stops and it'll open when unlocked.
I've added a definition section at the bottom.

Yes I assumed based on the 800 confirmation in the originally quoted message, but I can see 800-803 are now confirmed.

Thanks for the replies and clarification

This is the situation with Electrostar trains:

On these trains you can hold down the button before the driver releases the doors and the doors will open as soon as the driver presses the release button:

some subclasses of 377 (377/6 377/7), all 379, all 387.

On these trains you can only push the button after the driver releases the doors and if you hold it down before then it will not open and you have to lift your finger off and press it again to open:

some subclasses of 377 (377/1 377/2 377/3 377/4 377/5), all 301, all 357, all 375, all 376, all 378.

It's tragic that I know this, but the 172s operate differently dependent on the batch. The original WMT 172s with gangways (/2 and /3 - the ones identifiable by grey seat frames) are "hold to open". The Chiltern and the London Overground units without gangways (/0 and /1- blue or white seat frames) are "button after unlock". No idea why there would be a difference with the behaviour.

Great consistency from Bombardier there Unless the different door behaviour could have actually been specified at ordering?