Could efficiencies be made at Euston?

[MatthewHutton]

Moderator note: Split from

Crowd Management at Liverpool Lime Street after Parade

Hi everyone, Just wondering if anyone knows what’s happening at Liverpool Lime Street station this evening. There are thousands of people queueing outside in the rain, and no one is being allowed inside the station. It’s quite chaotic, especially following such a large public event that...

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This is perhaps the problem, Network Rail often show that the way they run their stations leaves a lot to be desired.

Issues at Euston are very well documented, and there’s been a few farces at King’s Cross over the years as well not least the day when the 700s had their meltdown. Indeed the situation at King’s Cross on that day had stark similarities with Lime Street - doors closed, station left to its own devices, seemingly zero attempt to actually deal with the situation, and trains leaving empty despite hundreds of people wanting to travel.

There is definitely an issue at Euston that some trains are timed to turn round in ~Tokyo timings for no apparent reason and others have an hour to turn around. More needs doing there IMO.

 

[The Planner]

There is definitely an issue at Euston that some trains are timed to turn round in ~Tokyo timings for no apparent reason and others have an hour to turn around. More needs doing there IMO.

Which ones are sitting there for an hour?

 

[MatthewHutton]

Which ones are sitting there for an hour?

08:18 from Wolverhampton on platform 5 which forms to 09:14 to Manchester for example.

08:12 from Manchester and 08:43 to Manchester on platform 16 is a heck of a lot tighter.

 

[The Planner]

08:18 from Wolverhampton on platform 5 which forms to 09:14 to Manchester for example.

08:12 from Manchester and 08:43 to Manchester on platform 16 is a heck of a lot tighter.

30 minutes is the standard for a Manchester terminator. Using this week as a guide is not a good idea due to the Trent Valley blockade, 1R07 you are quoting normally arrives at 0757 and is back out on a Manchester at 0823.

 

[MatthewHutton]

30 minutes is the standard for a Manchester terminator. Using this week as a guide is not a good idea due to the Trent Valley blockade, 1R07 you are quoting normally arrives at 0757 and is back out on a Manchester at 0823.

Ok on the 18th June the 07:57 doesn’t leave until 08:41 but the 08:07 on platform 2 leaves at 08:33 (which is genuinely very tight).

 

[The Planner]

Ok on the 18th June the 07:57 doesn’t leave until 08:41 but the 08:07 on platform 2 leaves at 08:33 (which is genuinely very tight).

20 minutes is the standard for a Wolves terminator. The rules are 20 minutes minimum turnaround for a West Mids train, 25 for a Manchester, Liverpool or Holyhead. 30 for a Scotland for a Scotland via West Mids and 35 for a Glasgow via the Trent Valley.

 

[MatthewHutton]

20 minutes is the standard for a Wolves terminator. The rules are 20 minutes minimum turnaround for a West Mids train, 25 for a Manchester, Liverpool or Holyhead. 30 for a Scotland for a Scotland via West Mids and 35 for a Glasgow via the Trent Valley.

Maybe those timings should be increased significantly? Because it’s an operator who is 15 minutes late regularly and you are doing near Tokyo turnarounds.

And you cannot even access the platform in the middle like Tokyo.

 

[The Planner]

Maybe those timings should be increased significantly? Because it’s an operator who is 15 minutes late regularly and you are doing near Tokyo turnarounds.

And you cannot even access the platform in the middle like Tokyo.

You would need more rolling stock and more platforms at Euston.

 

[MatthewHutton]

You would need more rolling stock and more platforms at Euston.

More rolling stock sure. More platforms is difficult to justify.

Current service is 8tph Avanti, 4tph Overground and 6tph London Northwestern and 2 tpd for the sleeper.

In terms of platforms 1-2 for overground, 4 for London northwestern, 8 for Avanti (which means you have an hour to turn around the Avanti services) and 2 for the sleeper would use the 16 platforms.

 

[The Planner]

More rolling stock sure. More platforms is difficult to justify.

Current service is 8tph Avanti, 4tph Overground and 6tph London Northwestern and 2 tpd for the sleeper.

In terms of platforms 2 for overground, 4 for London northwestern, 8 for Avanti (which means you have an hour to turn around the Avanti services) and 2 for the sleeper would use the 16 platforms.

Add on another 2 for Avanti (2 Birmingham, 1 Scotland via Birmingham, 1 Chester, 2 Liverpool, 3 Manchester, 1 Glasgow) and 5 tpd Lumo. It is 7 for LNWR (2 x Milton Keynes, 2 x Tring, 1 x Crewe, 2 x Birmingham). If you are increasing the platform occupancy for at least 12 of those trains, how are you fitting them all in? Bear in mind that you have platform reoccupation and the throat, even if Line X is a get out of jail free card for departing fast line trains, which there will be 14tph of when Lumo runs.

 

[MatthewHutton]

Add on another 2 for Avanti (2 Birmingham, 1 Scotland via Birmingham, 1 Chester, 2 Liverpool, 3 Manchester, 1 Glasgow) and 5 tpd Lumo. It is 7 for LNWR (2 x Milton Keynes, 2 x Tring, 1 x Crewe, 2 x Birmingham). If you are increasing the platform occupancy for at least 12 of those trains, how are you fitting them all in? Bear in mind that you have platform reoccupation and the throat, even if Line X is a get out of jail free card for departing fast line trains, which there will be 14tph of when Lumo runs.

Pleased Wikipedia is wrong! Still I do feel that probably 1 platform for overground and 4 for London North Western should be sufficient (2 for the 4 short trips and 2 for the 3 longer ones).

So that leaves 11 platforms for Avanti and the sleeper is a lot and even with 2 spare that gives you nearly an hour per platform.

 

[The Planner]

Pleased Wikipedia is wrong! Still I do feel that probably 1 platform for overground and 4 for London North Western should be sufficient (2 for the 4 short trips and 2 for the 3 longer ones).

So that leaves 11 platforms for Avanti and the sleeper is a lot and even with 2 spare that gives you nearly an hour per platform.

You are still assuming that you can make the throat work.