Two-Together Railcard at TVMs

[saismee]

I was asked for help by two people attempting to apply a railcard to a Scheidt & Bachmann (S&B) Ticket Vending Machine (TVM). Common occurrence, you have to apply the railcard AFTER choosing the ticket type and seeing the fare, so people are always worried that they can't apply it. Turns out, they wanted to use their Two Together railcard for the tickets, but the TVM doesn't have this option (no matter the amount of tickets selected). With little-to-no training, I guided them to the ticket office to purchase their tickets as I wasn't sure if it was at all possible at a TVM.

I asked a colleague who explained that I could just select a 16-25 railcard as it gives the same discount and would work fine. Is this correct? I am not in the position anymore (it was a temp thing) but I didn't think that was a good idea as it could be leading two people directly to a penalty fare, especially if there are different terms between the two railcard types. I'd imagine most guards and train managers would be understanding, but I can't say for certain. Hopefully those two people got a nice split to save them a little more, as the ticket office people do that quite often.

 

[redreni]

No, it's not correct. And yes, it is the kind of advice that could land people in trouble. A couple who acted on that advice in relation to a regular journey and were then 'caught' doing this, could end up facing threats of prosecution and demands for a "settlement" reflecting the costs of the investigation together with (what would in this case be entirely imaginary) lost TOC revenue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, it's not correct. And yes, it is the kind of advice that could land people in trouble. A couple who acted on that advice in relation to a regular journey and were then 'caught' doing this, could end up facing threats of prosecution and demands for a "settlement" reflecting the costs of the investigation together with (what would in this case be entirely imaginary) lost TOC revenue.

This is slightly confused by the fact that the railway told new 26-30 Railcard holders to use the 16-25 button instead if a TVM didn't have a button for that. It was only in the early days though and I didn't hear the same of the Two Together.

 

[Hadders]

I asked a colleague who explained that I could just select a 16-25 railcard as it gives the same discount and would work fine. Is this correct? I am not in the position anymore (it was a temp thing) but I didn't think that was a good idea as it could be leading two people directly to a penalty fare, especially if there are different terms between the two railcard types. I'd imagine most guards and train managers would be understanding, but I can't say for certain. Hopefully those two people got a nice split to save them a little more, as the ticket office people do that quite often.

This is completely wrong from your colleague and it really needs to be corrected.

The Two Together and 16-25 Railcards have different terms and conditions. While the headline discount is the same:

• 16-25 Railcard discounted tickets can be used at any time (subject to a £12 minimum discounted fare before 10am on weekdays (except July/August)
• The Two Together Railcard discounted tickets can only be used after 09:30 on weekdays
• 16-25 discounted tickets can be used by one person travelling on their own
• Both people must travelling together when using a Two Together Railcard

As for the answer to the substantial question it would be good to know what time the people were trying to purchase the tickets. If it was close 09:30 then it might be that the TVM is set up not to offer 2TR discounted tickets for sale until after 09:30.

 

[norbitonflyer]

One irritation is that on many machines the ONLY railcard you can use if two of you are buying tickets in one transaction is the 2 together. With senior railcards (and presumably Forces, 18-25 etc) you have to buy your tickets in separate transactions. This is certainly the case on SWR and SER. I was pleasantly surprised to find that LNER is an exception. As for Northern, the ticket machine was out of order at Knaresborough (next to a sign warning of the dire consequences of not having a ticket - and the "Ticket Office" now sells coffee but not tickets) so i had to buy our tickets on the Internet and go back to our hotel to ask them to print them out for us - only one smartphone between us, and that had a dodgy battery.

 

[saismee]

One irritation is that on many machines the ONLY railcard you can use if two of you are buying tickets in one transaction is the 2 together. With senior railcards (and presumably Forces, 18-25 etc) you have to buy your tickets in separate transactions. This is certainly the case on SWR and SER. I was pleasantly surprised to find that LNER is an exception. As for Northern, the ticket machine was out of order at Knaresborough (next to a sign warning of the dire consequences of not having a ticket - and the "Ticket Office" now sells coffee but not tickets) so i had to buy our tickets on the Internet and go back to our hotel to ask them to print them out for us - only one smartphone between us, and that had a dodgy battery.

While that is the most hassle-free way to do it (no question about the validity of your travel), you could've taken a picture of the TVM and travelled, purchasing your tickets at the earliest possible point (likely the destination, or from a guard). In the event that you had been issued a penalty fare, you could appeal it with proof of the out of order ticket machine. Your solution is definitely preferable for easier travel though.

This is completely wrong from your colleague and it really needs to be corrected.

The Two Together and 16-25 Railcards have different terms and conditions. While the headline discount is the same:

• 16-25 Railcard discounted tickets can be used at any time (subject to a £12 minimum discounted fare before 10am on weekdays (except July/August)
• The Two Together Railcard discounted tickets can only be used after 09:30 on weekdays
• 16-25 discounted tickets can be used by one person travelling on their own
• Both people must travelling together when using a Two Together Railcard

As for the answer to the substantial question it would be good to know what time the people were trying to purchase the tickets. If it was close 09:30 then it might be that the TVM is set up not to offer 2TR discounted tickets for sale until after 09:30.

It was almost certainly after 10:00 but I can't remember who suggested it, so I can't bring it up. Those are a lot more differences than I was expecting, but realistically if they're travelling together, using a valid railcard, and have two 16-25 discounted tickets, I would hope that most guards would give them the benefit of the doubt. Not something I'd risk though, and not something I could comfortably suggest to a passenger while knowing the risk.

This is slightly confused by the fact that the railway told new 26-30 Railcard holders to use the 16-25 button instead if a TVM didn't have a button for that. It was only in the early days though and I didn't hear the same of the Two Together.

I don't think the railway shouldn't be rolling out new railcards without updating the machines first... or perhaps if the usage terms are identical between them, they could be consolidated into a "railcard type X" but then why not just issue 16-30??

 

[kkong]

The Two Together and 16-25 Railcards have different terms and conditions. While the headline discount is the same:

• 16-25 Railcard discounted tickets can be used at any time (subject to a £12 minimum discounted fare before 10am on weekdays (except July/August)
• The Two Together Railcard discounted tickets can only be used after 09:30 on weekdays
• 16-25 discounted tickets can be used by one person travelling on their own
• Both people must travelling together when using a Two Together Railcard

Also, the 16-25 Railcard isn't valid for First Class non-Advance tickets.

 

[htwestern]

Also, the 16-25 Railcard isn't valid for First Class non-Advance tickets.

They don’t want the oiks in the posh seats!

 

[Wallsendmag]

One irritation is that on many machines the ONLY railcard you can use if two of you are buying tickets in one transaction is the 2 together. With senior railcards (and presumably Forces, 18-25 etc) you have to buy your tickets in separate transactions. This is certainly the case on SWR and SER. I was pleasantly surprised to find that LNER is an exception. As for Northern, the ticket machine was out of order at Knaresborough (next to a sign warning of the dire consequences of not having a ticket - and the "Ticket Office" now sells coffee but not tickets) so i had to buy our tickets on the Internet and go back to our hotel to ask them to print them out for us - only one smartphone between us, and that had a dodgy battery.

Northern and LNER machines are effectively the same as for that matter are Chiltern's

 

[Bletchleyite]

One irritation is that on many machines the ONLY railcard you can use if two of you are buying tickets in one transaction is the 2 together. With senior railcards (and presumably Forces, 18-25 etc) you have to buy your tickets in separate transactions. This is certainly the case on SWR and SER. I was pleasantly surprised to find that LNER is an exception. As for Northern, the ticket machine was out of order at Knaresborough (next to a sign warning of the dire consequences of not having a ticket - and the "Ticket Office" now sells coffee but not tickets) so i had to buy our tickets on the Internet and go back to our hotel to ask them to print them out for us - only one smartphone between us, and that had a dodgy battery.

If the TVM is out of order and there is no booking office you can board the train and pay at the first opportunity.