Planning permission for Tatton services has been given today, https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-m56-tatton-cheshire-ref-3345318-5-march-2025 has the details.
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Motorway services discussion
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I do like the growth of coffee shops on A roads - thanks Starbucks franchises but have to admit to missing Little Chefs from when they were in their prime. Nobody else gives me a lollipop for clearing my plate and endless coffee refills!
On the motorways I like the idea of having the coffee shop in the car park such as Costa at Wetherby or the Starbucks at the one on the M42 south of Birmingham where you can have a break but avoid the hassle of the main services where 3 coaches have arrived just before me!
For services I do like I have to say Gloucester M5, Killington Lake M6 and the unofficial services at Markham Vale M1. I find Trowell M1, Tamworth M42 and that one in the middle of the M62 ok.
Least favourite are Tibshelf M1 (scary access roads) Washington A1M south (horrible with even scarier access roads)
So glad I don't have to drive much
On the motorways I like the idea of having the coffee shop in the car park such as Costa at Wetherby or the Starbucks at the one on the M42 south of Birmingham where you can have a break but avoid the hassle of the main services where 3 coaches have arrived just before me!
For services I do like I have to say Gloucester M5, Killington Lake M6 and the unofficial services at Markham Vale M1. I find Trowell M1, Tamworth M42 and that one in the middle of the M62 ok.
Least favourite are Tibshelf M1 (scary access roads) Washington A1M south (horrible with even scarier access roads)
So glad I don't have to drive much
Vexed
Member
Yes those can be quite nice. As well as indoor seating they often had a drive though round the back of the building in my experience, such as Fleet on the M3.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
@Bletchleyite will be pleased, as I've just called at Gloucester Northbound (sitting in the car park as I type) and they've started stocking over-the-counter medicines in the main building!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Good stuff. It was a bizarre omission and not great when I had a splitting headache!
Euro Garages seem to have opened a load of mini services recently which are quite handy. One is at the end of the dual carriageway at Finmere. It's more like a giant petrol station than a full services, but it has toilets and a reasonably sized Co-op as well as a Subway and I think a Greggs (some are branded Asda, not sure why they use more than one brand). Prices aren't marked up like they normally are at services either, I bought a large bag of sweets and it was just over a quid rather than the usual motorway services three quid.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Asda is owned by the same brothers who own Euro Garages. Presumably they decide which brands to use where based on what else there is in the area. It would be a bit pointless using the Asda brand at a petrol station if there's an Asda superstore down the road that has a petrol forecourt.
Though that hasn't stopped them doing exactly that in Taunton. I used to work at that superstore, and remember being told they'd been refused permission for a forecourt due to the National Hydrographic Centre being nearby (though knowing exactly what the issue was, was above my pay grade and still is!). However when I passed there during my visit I noticed they now have a forecourt on site- though there's also an Asda branded petrol station a few hundred yards down the road (which was charging 5 pence more per litre of fuel).
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That one has a small area of seating for Subway but not a lot else.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
They're really just forecourts/convenience stores with some sort of coffee or fast food outlet tacked on. If any were directly on the motorway in place of a traditional MSA they'd get absolutely swamped.
I believe this is why the current regulations prevent these types of services being built at motorway junctions, as they would become MSAs by stealth.
This begs an interesting question: If the government had never been involved with planning and developing MSAs, how might private developers have approached early motorway services? Would Watford Gap have still been built in the same place for example?
Blindtraveler
Established Member
I think we'd probably have seen a much more commercially minded approach from a much earlier stage, the MSA of today is all about branded outlets charging even more money than their high Street siblings, 6 lb. Costa coffee at Wakefield Woolley edge the other week for example. And I suspect that had there not been the process that we've had that we'd have seen this a lot earlier and possibly at times of hardship and rationalisation a degree of cost cutting or other profiteering measures. For example, it is mandated that an MSA must have toilets that are free of charge to use and meet some kind of basic standard. Well, I'm never too sure about the standards being monitored and audited, but the fact that motorway service toilets remain free of charge is no doubt. Thanks to regulation or else I think we could quite easily have seen roadside shopping centres with chargeable everything being the default setting. As it is and this is potentially a topic for another thread but I think motorway service areas need taking back to basics and the cost of usage and availability of products need a serious re-examination. Half of the outlets present on service stations now I simply wouldn't use and if I did so it would be under duress, three 6 lb coffees at Wakefield cited again as per earlier in my post
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
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That's a right lot of coffee to swallow. Maybe half a gallon?!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The reason for the price elevation (which was the case when the cafe was The Granary, remember that?) is because it funds the facilities and 24 hour opening. Most people just use the toilet and don't buy anything, very different to non-motorway garages etc.
If you really don't want to pay the inflated prices just use your satnav to find somewhere just off the motorway, it's not too hard.
If you really don't want to pay the inflated prices just use your satnav to find somewhere just off the motorway, it's not too hard.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
I guess I should probably have clarified that I was also purchasing for the driver and the other passenger in the vehicle
Back I was happy to pay the prices as I felt you got better quality and value for your money. Now a lot of the outlets are ones that I wouldn't even use on the high Street and at a fairly major bang compared to the high Street. As a coach passenger, I'm a captive audience and whilst my scheduled coach journeys are a lot less these days, I do travel with others by car and coach and often it's the convenience. But when I consider a lot of the offerings as bad value for money in a town centre, then the inflated motorway price just sticks with me a bit
Back in the day The granary used to do an amazing proper cooked breakfast and a truly delicious curry, you can't get either of those at most services these days
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Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
@Blindtraveler uses speech-to-text software IIRC, I think they meant £6 (money) not six pounds (weight).
I hope so anyway, 6lb is almost three litres!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If it was £6 for a Costa that must be a pretty specced up one. I know stuff is overpriced, but a large white Americano from the Costa machine in WH Smugg's Reading Room isn't more than 4 quid, possibly a bit less.
BurtonM
Member
I'm really not a fan of EuroGarages. They're painfully expensive, even if they're nowhere near a motorway. Something of a last resort!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I was quite impressed that a large bag of sweets (forget what, might have been Allsorts) was only just over a quid, I was expecting three times that.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
Just a standard latte. To be honest, I was a bit gobsmacked I have to say
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Forton/Galgate near M6 junction 33 - certainly so!
Mcr Warrior
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Sixty years old now! BTW, is the iconic tower building still in use?
If the government had never been involved the MSAs would never have been built as we know them, and the demand would have been filled by a completely ad-hoc mix of garages, cafes, diners, and the like off the junctions. With a lot more wee and poo in hedges and behind walls.
Oh yes, if the restaurant in the tower were reinstated it would be a destination in itself I think.
We're very lucky they were. I doubt we'd have ended up with the well designed service hubs that we have otherwise.
TheTallOne
Member
No, closed in the 80s or 90s I think. Staff only now.
There's a few videos on YouTube if you do a search for it.
In terms of Euro garages, can only speak for Monmouth, but whenever I stop there I find that the seating area is a disgrace, lots of dirty tables with rubbish on them. And the toilets not much better either.
To hellp @Blindtraveler understand what is going here, every time they say pound, meaning currency, it comes out as the two-letter abbreviation for pound (weight), letter-l followed by letter-b.
styles
Member
I went to the OK Diner at the A55 (not strictly a motorway, but a 'special road' which has most of the rules of motorways) Northop Hall services recently and have to say, either my nostalgia is over-playing things, or it was a very poor replacement for a Little Chef.
There's something about Costa's coffee that I don't like, and I'm not really a coffee snob or anything. A lot of my trips are A74(M)/M6 so Tebay/Cairn Lodge are the services I aim for.
Since moving further north and having most of my travel off motorways in the Highlands, I've come to sort of loathe motorway journeys with the sort of soulless services England has to offer. I suppose the experience of driving the A9 is only partly offset by the family feel eateries though.
GW43125
Established Member
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Had a trip down to Cornwall last week, ended up in a fair few services, and either I was never picky when as a child we used to stop for breakfast at Podimore on the A303 or some service stations are absolute 'holes these days. It's hit and miss it seems with how some of the ex-little chefs are looked after. The starbucks at Weyhill (A303) is well enough looked after (though never seems to have any loo roll), but Podimore is a dump, and into Cornwall some of the overgrown petrol stations aren't much better. Carland Cross on the A30 was a bit of a dump, probably not helped by the loss in passing traffic since the dual carriageway opened.
Also what is it with building service stations such that you have to do a three-quarter turn on two roundabouts in a row to reach it (and the same in reverse), would be nice if there was a note on the signs to warn you. Then there's the desert on the M5 where you have what seems like a services every 10 minutes, then an awkward 29 mile gap whilst you negotiate Almondsbury, before the M4 once again throws you one every ten minutes, so by the time you've negotiated all the roundabouts, you could've nearly made the next one. Has there ever been anything set out for encouraging distances between service stations? You've got that on the M4 and M40 but then if I drive from Farnborough on the M3 to head up the M1, it's well over an hour until you reach the first one at Toddington.
Haven't quite got over the £8.50 for two slices of pizza and a bottle of coke at Exeter services though! I do find it's a bit small for the sheer number of cars/caravans that rock up on a changeover Saturday...
Also what is it with building service stations such that you have to do a three-quarter turn on two roundabouts in a row to reach it (and the same in reverse), would be nice if there was a note on the signs to warn you. Then there's the desert on the M5 where you have what seems like a services every 10 minutes, then an awkward 29 mile gap whilst you negotiate Almondsbury, before the M4 once again throws you one every ten minutes, so by the time you've negotiated all the roundabouts, you could've nearly made the next one. Has there ever been anything set out for encouraging distances between service stations? You've got that on the M4 and M40 but then if I drive from Farnborough on the M3 to head up the M1, it's well over an hour until you reach the first one at Toddington.
Haven't quite got over the £8.50 for two slices of pizza and a bottle of coke at Exeter services though! I do find it's a bit small for the sheer number of cars/caravans that rock up on a changeover Saturday...
Don’t know about rules about distances between service stations, but remember accompanying a school trip to France in the days when “M25” and “services” were strangers to each other. Return journey involved the southern half of the M25 at rush hour. Request for loo stop first made about the M23 junction and was appeased with “we’ll stop at next services”. That was Chievely - I have never seen anyone move so fast once the coach door was open!
Blindtraveler
Established Member
I think the popularity and sheer existence of the Tebay two locations plus Ken lodge and the other one from that group which is I think Gloucester proves that there's still a market for good quality on road facilities