Fraud investigation emails from Greater Anglia ("fishing" emails) -

[essexman1982]

Hello - I've seen a few posts about the following email from Greater Anglian that keeps popping up:

Re: Trainline Account
We have been investigating industry data and have been led to believe you are potentially not paying full
fares on Greater Anglia services. This activity has been highlighted as potentially fraudulent. We view this as a serious issue, and we have taken this step to contact you, with an outlook to resolve this
matter with you efficiently. We invite you to respond to this letter within 7 days by email to [email protected] quoting the reference number -

Anybody prepared to share how they have actually resolved these situations? eg waiting it out? agreed a payment? There seem to be lots of people getting them but few comments on how they've been resolved in the end.
Thanks

 

[tatitiliti]

Hello - I've seen a few posts about the following email from Greater Anglian that keeps popping up:

Re: Trainline Account
We have been investigating industry data and have been led to believe you are potentially not paying full
fares on Greater Anglia services. This activity has been highlighted as potentially fraudulent. We view this as a serious issue, and we have taken this step to contact you, with an outlook to resolve this
matter with you efficiently. We invite you to respond to this letter within 7 days by email to [email protected] quoting the reference number -

Anybody prepared to share how they have actually resolved these situations? eg waiting it out? agreed a payment? There seem to be lots of people getting them but few comments on how they've been resolved in the end.
Thanks

Unless you’ve been stopped in person and been reported for prosecution, do not reply to these emails or any follow-ups (whether you’re guilty or innocent). Say nothing. They are trying to get you to incriminate yourself and/or get money out of you for which they don’t currently have sufficient evidence that would hold up in court. Nothing good can come out of engaging with them for you, only for the TOC. I think this tends to be the consensus on this forum.

I can’t think of a single case where Greater Anglia has tried to recover money by civil means either. The best thing one can do is not use that or any other account on Trainline (which would be my advice anyway) to buy valid tickets in future.

 

[ikcdab]

Unless you’ve been stopped in person and been reported for prosecution, do not reply to these emails or any follow-ups (whether you’re guilty or innocent). Say nothing. They are trying to get you to incriminate yourself and/or get money out of you for which they don’t currently have sufficient evidence that would hold up in court. Nothing good can come out of engaging with them for you, only for the TOC. I think this tends to be the consensus on this forum.

I can’t think of a single case where Greater Anglia has tried to recover money by civil means either. The best thing one can do is not use that or any other account on Trainline (which would be my advice anyway) to buy valid tickets in future.

Slight typo there at the end. Don't use Trainline and always buy valid tickets in future.

 

[Hadders]

Hello - I've seen a few posts about the following email from Greater Anglian that keeps popping up:

Re: Trainline Account
We have been investigating industry data and have been led to believe you are potentially not paying full
fares on Greater Anglia services. This activity has been highlighted as potentially fraudulent. We view this as a serious issue, and we have taken this step to contact you, with an outlook to resolve this
matter with you efficiently. We invite you to respond to this letter within 7 days by email to [email protected] quoting the reference number -

Anybody prepared to share how they have actually resolved these situations? eg waiting it out? agreed a payment? There seem to be lots of people getting them but few comments on how they've been resolved in the end.
Thanks

Have you received one of these emails? If so if you gve us full details then we can assist.

We cannot really assist with a thread discussing a hypothetical situation.

 

[Jantra]

If you buy old fashioned paper tickets or promise to pay, and pay with cash, then you can safely ignore e-mails like this.
Reading through, so many of the Disputes and Prosecution threads, its their online purchasing data that incriminates people.
No wonder the TOC's are so keen from everyone to go paperless!

 

[Hadders]

If you buy old fashioned paper tickets or promise to pay, and pay with cash, then you can safely ignore e-mails like this.
Reading through, so many of the Disputes and Prosecution threads, its their online purchasing data that incriminates people.
No wonder the TOC's are so keen from everyone to go paperless!

This isn't quite correct. A paper ticket purchased online and collected from a ticket machine leaves a digital trail in a similar way.

Purchasing from a station ticket office or ticket machine with a payment card is also traceable.

Promise to Pay is not relevent in Greater Anglia territory.

 

[AlterEgo]

This isn't quite correct. A paper ticket purchased online and collected from a ticket machine leaves a digital trail in a similar way.

Purchasing from a station ticket office or ticket machine with a payment card is also traceable.

Promise to Pay is not relevent in Greater Anglia territory.

Have we ever seen anyone traced by a TOC after buying tickets from a machine or ticket office? They’d need to get your details from the card company, who will not give another private company such information. I imagine they’d only respond to a police request. You’d have to be doing some big fraud for that to be a realistic possibility.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Slight typo there at the end. Don't use Trainline and always buy valid tickets in future.

Aside from paying unnecessary fees there is no issue with using Trainline provided one is not illegally obtaining discounts to which one is not entitled. If someone is doing that, they should stop doing that and switch retailers* - but the "stop doing that" bit is more important!

* Noting that Trainline provides several of the TOC sites.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==

Have we ever seen anyone traced by a TOC after buying tickets from a machine or ticket office? They’d need to get your details from the card company, who will not give another private company such information. I imagine they’d only respond to a police request. You’d have to be doing some big fraud for that to be a realistic possibility.

It's technically possible but I've never heard of it. If paying by cash it's infinitesimally unlikely - the Police have enough trouble tracing people in that situation who have been accused of something far more serious than fare dodging!

 

[Jantra]

Most of the other disputes seem to be where people have ticked a box to say they had a railcard or using an out of date railcard. Why on earth is this possible?
If I buy something online or say at Tesco's I can't just tick a box and get a discount I have to type in a code or have a card scanned.
It does seem a major flaw to me how railcards are implemented.
Sorry a bit off topic, I know.

 

[Titfield]

Most of the other disputes seem to be where people have ticked a box to say they had a railcard or using an out of date railcard. Why on earth is this possible?
If I buy something online or say at Tesco's I can't just tick a box and get a discount I have to type in a code or have a card scanned.
It does seem a major flaw to me how railcards are implemented.
Sorry a bit off topic, I know.

Because railcards as a product were "invented" in the pre-internet days which required their production when booking a ticket at a station or travel agency. Integrating them into the online booking system with validation has not been carried out.

 

[KirkstallOne]

Aside from paying unnecessary fees there is no issue with using Trainline provided one is not illegally obtaining discounts to which one is not entitled. If someone is doing that, they should stop doing that and switch retailers* - but the "stop doing that" bit is more important!

I would question this, seems to be many cases where an innocent mistake or oversight leads to being threatened by the train company over past journeys and asked for excessive settlements to avoid prosecution.

Difficult to guarantee you are not going to make a mistake.

 

[simonw]

Most of the other disputes seem to be where people have ticked a box to say they had a railcard or using an out of date railcard. Why on earth is this possible?
If I buy something online or say at Tesco's I can't just tick a box and get a discount I have to type in a code or have a card scanned.
It does seem a major flaw to me how railcards are implemented.
Sorry a bit off topic, I know.

Because you can buy a ticket and then buy a railcard that validates it at a latter date, but before travelling.

There would, I think, also be great resistance to people having to enter another code before buying a ticket just to prove they have a railcard.

 

[AlterEgo]

Because you can buy a ticket and then buy a railcard that validates it at a latter date, but before travelling.

There would, I think, also be great resistance to people having to enter another code before buying a ticket just to prove they have a railcard.

The answer is to just make that change anyway. So what? You're still getting a third off for the hassle of entering possible a 7 digit reference number (you don't need more than this), which most browsers will memorise for you.

What do you think the harm is in asking people to enter their railcard number? The defence of the current maximum jeopardy way of administering railcards ("you can save on one trip, no need to be a pro traveller, just buy one, oh and lol don't forget to renew it or carry it in 18 months else you do a crime and it'll cost you hundreds or thousands of pounds, whoops) is by far the worst opinion on the forum. It's so far divorced from normie opinion and really is the privilege of the power user; a proper rail enthusiast community would advocate for proper change here even if it meant a tiny tiny inconvenience to the power user.

 

[35B]

The answer is to just make that change anyway. So what? You're still getting a third off for the hassle of entering possible a 7 digit reference number (you don't need more than this), which most browsers will memorise for you.

What do you think the harm is in asking people to enter their railcard number? The defence of the current maximum jeopardy way of administering railcards ("you can save on one trip, no need to be a pro traveller, just buy one, oh and lol don't forget to renew it or carry it in 18 months else you do a crime and it'll cost you hundreds or thousands of pounds, whoops) is by far the worst opinion on the forum. It's so far divorced from normie opinion and really is the privilege of the power user; a proper rail enthusiast community would advocate for proper change here even if it meant a tiny tiny inconvenience to the power user.

You are being unfair. There are plenty of "normie" use cases where the ticket purchase and the railcard purchase may be detached from each other. The two obvious scenarios are for people purchasing tickets before a significant birthday where a railcard discount will become available, or prior to renewal of an existing railcard.

From personal experience, purchasing tickets on behalf of friends is also fraught with risks of confusion, with each additional variable increasing the degree of exposure if something goes wrong in the process.

The issue here is absolutely and solely the assumption of the railway companies that railcard holders will retain evidence so long after the event, and then weaponising that failure to do so against people. An important aspect of many of the cases here is that those seeking advice lack experience of bureaucratic norms, and have difficulty in focusing their responses to work within those norms.

 

[Jantra]

An important aspect of many of the cases here is that those seeking advice lack experience of bureaucratic norms, and have difficulty in focusing their responses to work within those norms.

Allowing young people to simply tick a box to get a third off, may also seem irresponsible.

 

[AlterEgo]

You are being unfair. There are plenty of "normie" use cases where the ticket purchase and the railcard purchase may be detached from each other. The two obvious scenarios are for people purchasing tickets before a significant birthday where a railcard discount will become available

So, in this case, we're talking about a small number of people - a tiny sliver of people, buying advances and not walk ups, aged between:

17 years and 9 months, and 18, and
25 years and 9 months, and 26, and
59 years and 9 months, and 60

Normies generally don't actually expect to be able to get discounts online having purchased some form of entitlement without verifying that. They expect websites/purchasing platforms to remember if they are entitled or not and for a customer focused business to prevent the maximum jeopardy event I've described.

We don't hear many people moaning that "urgh I'm coming to the END of my 26-30 validity, I have the railcard now, why can't I use the discount which I've paid for and travel a week after my 31st birthday?" - just reversing the issue you've mentioned. It's an invented barrier.

or prior to renewal of an existing railcard.

It's not rocket science to keep railcard numbers the same or overcome this issue.

From personal experience, purchasing tickets on behalf of friends is also fraught with risks of confusion, with each additional variable increasing the degree of exposure if something goes wrong in the process.

Much easier if everyone just Whatsapps you their railcard number so we don't get teenagers threatened with court. A bit less convenient, but it is exactly how many other discounts would work. Honestly this is one thing that needs so little thought, just do it and make the change.

The issue here is absolutely and solely the assumption of the railway companies that railcard holders will retain evidence so long after the event, and then weaponising that failure to do so against people.

TOCs don't assume this, they are in fact quite happy to find that people are panicked when they can't prove their railcard history, because they get to extract more money.

If railcards weren't papyrus technology invented in the 80s and they were a new idea, there is zero chance they would take the form they currently do.

 

[35B]

So, in this case, we're talking about a small number of people - a tiny sliver of people, buying advances and not walk ups, aged between:

17 years and 9 months, and 18, and
25 years and 9 months, and 26, and
59 years and 9 months, and 60

Normies generally don't actually expect to be able to get discounts online having purchased some form of entitlement without verifying that. They expect websites/purchasing platforms to remember if they are entitled or not and for a customer focused business to prevent the maximum jeopardy event I've described.

We don't hear many people moaning that "urgh I'm coming to the END of my 26-30 validity, I have the railcard now, why can't I use the discount which I've paid for and travel a week after my 31st birthday?" - just reversing the issue you've mentioned. It's an invented barrier.


It's not rocket science to keep railcard numbers the same or overcome this issue.



Much easier if everyone just Whatsapps you their railcard number so we don't get teenagers threatened with court. A bit less convenient, but it is exactly how many other discounts would work. Honestly this is one thing that needs so little thought, just do it and make the change.


TOCs don't assume this, they are in fact quite happy to find that people are panicked when they can't prove their railcard history, because they get to extract more money.

If railcards weren't papyrus technology invented in the 80s and they were a new idea, there is zero chance they would take the form they currently do.

They are papyrus technology, and were invented back in the day, so that needs to be the mode of analysis. They are also relatively unusual in being paid for discounts.

The edge cases are relevant and material, and the technocentric assumption that holders can WhatsApp is a prima facie case of disability discrimination - the OAP I book for (with assistance) cannot reliably send messages by phone, struggles with email, and has significant hearing loss. I rely on his confirmation that he has a railcard, but have never seen it and am not in a position to check with him.

These need dealing with properly, not just a further blame shift by the railway that results in people paying a premium. A customer oriented business would look to ensure that customers received the discounts that they are eligible for, not use a quirk of the systems to make people overpay.

 

[AlterEgo]

They are papyrus technology, and were invented back in the day, so that needs to be the mode of analysis. They are also relatively unusual in being paid for discounts.

The edge cases are relevant and material, and the technocentric assumption that holders can WhatsApp is a prima facie case of disability discrimination - the OAP I book for (with assistance) cannot reliably send messages by phone, struggles with email, and has significant hearing loss. I rely on his confirmation that he has a railcard, but have never seen it and am not in a position to check with him.

Sorry but that’s ridiculous; it isn’t discrimination to rely on proof of discount when buying something. That’s how nearly everything works. Railcards are very old fashioned as you admit and are the exception rather than the norm.

What next? Because I need my mum’s account number to pay her utility bills and it’s hard for her to give that information to me, account numbers are discrimination?

Remember when Chip and PIN was supposed to be age or disability discrimination because some people can’t remember a PIN?

 

[35B]

Sorry but that’s ridiculous; it isn’t discrimination to rely on proof of discount when buying something. That’s how nearly everything works. Railcards are very old fashioned as you admit and are the exception rather than the norm.

What next? Because I need my mum’s account number to pay her utility bills and it’s hard for her to give that information to me, account numbers are discrimination?

Remember when Chip and PIN was supposed to be age or disability discrimination because some people can’t remember a PIN?

I do. I also remember that banks had to provide a reasonable alternative, and I am aware that they still have difficulties applying that.

I come back to the point that you chose not to quote:

These need dealing with properly, not just a further blame shift by the railway that results in people paying a premium. A customer oriented business would look to ensure that customers received the discounts that they are eligible for, not use a quirk of the systems to make people overpay.

That is where the issue and the solutions should lie

 

[Trainbike46]

It's not unusual for someone to book a ticket in advance, and buy the relevant railcard at the booking office while collecting their ticket. As railcards mostly need renewing each year, this situation does happen fairly frequently.

When designing systems, edge cases need to be considered.

However, I would agree that including some way of validating railcard are held would be a good idea, whether that is with a code when buying tickets online, or by having to present it when collecting said ticket. What is important is that it is implemented in a way that is easy to use.

None of that justifies fishing expeditions. If there is something unusual in buying patterns, they should deploy some RPIs to catch the people doing that, not send emails that a receipient is best off ignoring.

 

[Hadders]

We'verecently had an extensive debate recently bout whether it should be a requirement to enter the railcard expiry date and/or railcard number when purchasing railcard discounted tickets so there is little point in repeating it again.

Why is it not a requirement to enter expiry date of railcard for ticket purchases?

When I use a credit or debit card online, I’ve always had to enter my expiry date of the card. Why is the same practice not used for people making ticket purchases using a railcard? This would help a lot of people making innocent mistakes in forgetting to renew their railcard and would be...

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@essexman1982 I'm going to lock this thread for now as it seems to relate to a hypothetical case. If you wish to update us wth details of your case then please report this thread using the 'Report' button in the bottom left of this post which will alert the moderating team to re-open the thread.