Nothing. But they would save the cost of constantly repairing the 769s, not to mention the leasing cost. And now they are paying even more to hire extra units to cover the overhauls.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
- Thread starter northwichcat
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
The situation regarding the two additional 769s is bizarre. Last October, Porterbrook managers advised rail user group OPSTA in the presence of Northern managers that two units from those previously used by TfW would be receiving attention at Long Marston and Crewe IEMD. They would then be available for Northern to use from January at no charge, providing cover for the 8 sets already used by Northern when they were sent away one at a time to Brodies in Kilmarnock for C6 overhauls.
The Government tender document, issued 5 months after the sets were supposed to be in traffic, implies that these units will in fact incur leasing charges. This may be creative accounting for appearance sake with no funds actually changing hands but the appalling lack of urgency in progressing matters reflects very badly on those involved.
The Government tender document, issued 5 months after the sets were supposed to be in traffic, implies that these units will in fact incur leasing charges. This may be creative accounting for appearance sake with no funds actually changing hands but the appalling lack of urgency in progressing matters reflects very badly on those involved.
When it's happened in the past it's resulted in a 156 being split off an Oxford Rd - Liverpool LS or or a 150 coming off Springs Branch. If there's nothing else it's going to be a cancellation.
Everyone signs them for a start and powers that be at Northern are happy to keep the chaos that are 768s confined to their own small area!
317 forever
Established Member
I rode one (448) from Southport to Manchester Oxford Road yesterday.
I could tell that the change from diesel to electric happened at Bolton rather than Ince or Wigan Wallgate. I noticed the engine go off and the sound a bit different as we left Bolton.
I could tell that the change from diesel to electric happened at Bolton rather than Ince or Wigan Wallgate. I noticed the engine go off and the sound a bit different as we left Bolton.
5/6 diagrammed started in service today, all still running. Missing are 769431 (reliability since return from Brodies overhaul has been very low), 769434 (Brodies for a couple of months), 769450 (demic line Allerton for weeks). No sign of the cavalry 769421/52 from TfW, last heard of at Crewe S.Yd or Crewe IEMD. No sign as yet of any test train to bring the Wigan-Lostock Junction line into electric use (wires live since 1 Jan)
The only place power change over at Ince has been talked about is on here, there's nothing official been put out.
I've asked the question to folks that should (and would know) and they don't know anything so it seems it will remain at Bolton for the time being at least. Let's wait and see what the December timetable change brings with regards to 769s being put into North Western ex Staly etc.
I've asked the question to folks that should (and would know) and they don't know anything so it seems it will remain at Bolton for the time being at least. Let's wait and see what the December timetable change brings with regards to 769s being put into North Western ex Staly etc.
Have been advised that Northern 'expect' that the line will be authorised by summer and that changeovers thereafter will take place at Ince. Spoiler is that I wasn't advised which how long summer would last or whether it would be this summer..............
David that's a point, glacial would be an understatement but then that's the railway. I am sure Northern control are looking forward to the new regime if and when it happens!
EastMidlander
Member
There's a Class 323 test train running tonight. I saw it as I drove over the bridge by Westhoughton station around 30 minutes ago.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Looks like 3Z98 0118 Wigan North Western to Wigan North Western (323227 + 323224 ) went from Wigan to Bolton and back.
There was a 2nd lap booked in but it doesn't appear to have been used.
Also booked tomorrow same paths.
Meanwhile, 5 out of 6 769's started the day, but 769424 which went ECS 05.52 SP- Southport to form 2071 07.03 Southport-Man.Ox Rd failed at Southport, service cancelled and return 08.27 Man. Ox Rd-Southport cancelled as far as Wigan Wallgate where 150103/156416 replaced, having been sent ECS from Newton Heath.
Last edited:
ExRes
Established Member
RTT are currently showing schedules for 9th to 12th June
1912 5Q01 Leicester LIP to London Euston via Nuneaton and 2337 5Q02 return
1912 5Q01 Leicester LIP to London Euston via Nuneaton and 2337 5Q02 return
Nym
Established Member
769/5 finally being used in anger? Or just some form of press event?
ExRes
Established Member
As they are Class 5 I would guess it's probably just testing of some description with perhaps route learning thrown in?
Meanwhile in Northernland, 6 out of 6 diagrammed 769's have been active today. 769424 (AN) and 769434 (Brodies) are missing, but the lesser spotted 769450 (out of action for weeks/months) has today worked a 5Y73 Allerton-Wigan NW and return test train and seems to have made it through. In service, though 769456 appears to have suffered something and will pick up its diagram later- allegedly down to animals on the train but which hasn't affected anything else............meanwhile no sign as yet of the Welsh cavalry 769421/52 - understand that there 'may' be a shortage of pantographs..........from a Northern source.
Last edited:
amahy
Member
I did see a couple of ex-TfW 769s preparing to leave the storage sidings at Crewe behind an ROG 37 a couple of weeks ago, not sure whether these were the ones for Northern though.
Bertie the bus
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Aug 2014
- Messages
- 3,032
How many do they need? 749421 definitely had a pantograph when I saw it dragged from the Electric Depot to South Yard in March. I would have thought just the 1 per unit was ample.
2O79 SOP-MCO hit a couple of dogs on the line. The driver was quite shook up and managed to get the train to Wigan but didn't feel safe enough to carry on with the journey....
Ta, hope the driver is OK.
Currently down to 4 today, 5 started the day but 769448 has pulled up lame at Wigan Wallgate, 769450 back in passenger use for the first time in weeks/months, but 769424/34 as per yesterday not active, together with 769431 missing (again!!).
thealexweb
Member
- Joined
- 5 Jan 2014
- Messages
- 1,053
That’s sad.
Is the Southport facing bay big enough to keep a 769 out of the way till it’s next needed?
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
If you are refering to Platform 3, yes. I've even seen them leave in passenger service towards Southport.
The one and only bay at Oxford Road is Platform 5, normally used by Southport services and the hourly stopper to Liverpool Lime Street. If a 769 was stabled there those services would need to be replatformed.
Does anyone know why 769s are so unreliable. Never been on one myself but i remember the 319s on Thameslink were decent performers reliability wise.
What in the conversion process was changed to make the decently reliable 319s become very unreliable 769s ?
What in the conversion process was changed to make the decently reliable 319s become very unreliable 769s ?
brad465
Established Member
Probably converting an old train (by this point 30 years) to gain an additional mode of power it wasn't originally designed to have and by a process that at the time was in its infancy. This also added weight (both in diesel engines and fuel) it wasn't designed to perform with.
If the same process was done now to something relatively new, combined with the "trial run" with the 769s leading to lessons being learnt about the tech, it might work better.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
AIUI the control system for enabling the diesel engines is not like a "conventional" DMU. The train is still an EMU with 25kV AC as the primary means of power into the transformer, which is transformed into traction friendly power controlled by the chopper. The conversion involved bolting a 5ish tonne engine+altenator raft under each driving car, along with fuel and coolant tanks, exhausts etc. These diesel gensets then supply power down the bus cable to the Motor car traction system, effectively emulating the 750V input the car would receive from the 750V DC shoes.
Although we have seen DEMUs before, I think the 230s and 769s are the first EMU trains subsequently fitted with gensets, and perhaps not dwell too much on the success or otherwise of these. Having said that Canton depot seemed to get some reliabilty from the pantographless TfW 769s.
It was Wigan wallgate the comment was referring to
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
It does sound weird when they pulling away on diesel but with noises also of electric train
450 lasted a day, was due off Springs Branch earlier but is not playing ball this morning!