MML Electrification: is it going to be completed?

[londonmidland]

Moderator note: Split from

MML Electrification: progress updates

There's an article about NR's plans in Rail this week (#765 p54). It seems that work on site will start in April 2015, the contractor being Carillion Powerlines. They will be using road-rail vehicles for the work, not a high-output system. The 125mph design isn't explicitly named but seems...

www.railforums.co.uk

Hopefully the Spending Review on June the 11th will be good news for further electrification of the Midland Mainline.

 

[DDB]

In the press coverage of yesterday mayoral region transport funding announcement a journalist asked about national programs and got a reply along the lines of more to come next week.
This work finishing early gives the opportunity of spining it as "previous government cancelled it we will bring in electrification on time and budget" which would be stretching the truth but if it gets it ordered I won't care!
Now for the 810 introduction to get on with it.

 

[Trainman40083]

In the press coverage of yesterday mayoral region transport funding announcement a journalist asked about national programs and got a reply along the lines of more to come next week.
This work finishing early gives the opportunity of spining it as "previous government cancelled it we will bring in electrification on time and budget" which would be stretching the truth but if it gets it ordered I won't care!
Now for the 810 introduction to get on with it.

Residents near Chesterfield have had a letter, advising of OHLE preparation works about to start. I suspect that is spin for "we are going to cut loads of trees down there".

 

[QSK19]

In the press coverage of yesterday mayoral region transport funding announcement a journalist asked about national programs and got a reply along the lines of more to come next week.
This work finishing early gives the opportunity of spining it as "previous government cancelled it we will bring in electrification on time and budget" which would be stretching the truth but if it gets it ordered I won't care!
Now for the 810 introduction to get on with it.

To be honest, as I’ve said before, I won’t believe a word until spades are firmly in the ground. Governments of all colours you-know-what in the same pot and are not to be trusted. The current one didn’t win the election, the Conservatives lost it (ie the electorate wanted the Tories out, not Labour in). Anyway, that is digressing OT.

Let’s see what Wednesday brings, but prep work as far as Chesterfield brings a glimmer of hope that Wednesday will bring positive news.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

I won’t believe a word until spades are firmly in the ground.

As has been seen, it's not beyond them to cancel electrification already mid-way through construction

 

[QSK19]

As has been seen, it's not beyond them to cancel electrification already mid-way through construction

Yes good point. I suppose the actual tipping point is where they’re so far down the line (excuse the unintended pun) that cancelling contracts becomes more expensive than finishing the job.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes good point. I suppose the actual tipping point is where they’re so far down the line (excuse the unintended pun) that cancelling contracts becomes more expensive than finishing the job.

Hmm. I wonder about that. I present HS2 to the North West your honour.

 

[Aspen90]

As has been seen, it's not beyond them to cancel electrification already mid-way through construction

Exactly. Look at Wixams Station Bedford. All that work that’s been done and pylons going in then part way through they’ve been told to stop as it’s going to be 4 platform instead of 2 so having to start it all again! Such a waste of money.

Universal Bedford theme park could get trains from Europe - mayor

Tom Wootton hopes station improvements could enable Eurostar trains to be accommodated.

www.bbc.com

 

[Trainman40083]

Exactly. Look at Wixams Station Bedford. All that work that’s been done and pylons going in then part way through they’ve been told to stop as it’s going to be 4 platform instead of 2 so having to start it all again! Such a waste of money.

Universal Bedford theme park could get trains from Europe - mayor

Tom Wootton hopes station improvements could enable Eurostar trains to be accommodated.

www.bbc.com

Short termism . No-one seems to have a clear view of what the future looks like. I wonder if the theme park will also have implications for the East West line around there?

 

[swt_passenger]

Short termism . No-one seems to have a clear view of what the future looks like. I wonder if the theme park will also have implications for the East West line around there?

Yes it does, and I think it’s been thoroughly covered in the dedicated threads about Wixams and “Universal”.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

------ stretching the truth but if it gets it ordered I won't care!

Exactly my sentiments too!

Residents near Chesterfield have had a letter, advising of OHLE preparation works about to start. I suspect that is spin for "we are going to cut loads of trees down there".

I don't care - get her done!

 

[zwk500]

I don't care - get her done!

Getting it done as quickly as possible involves not needlessly winding the neighbours up.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Getting it done as quickly as possible involves not needlessly winding the neighbours up.

I understand.

 

[QSK19]

Getting it done as quickly as possible involves not needlessly winding the neighbours up.

The argument against any complaints could be an environmental one: do they prefer noisy, polluting diesels or quieter, clean electrics?

Acknowledged that there will be some disruption from works, but the long-term gains are worth it.

 

[zwk500]

The argument against any complaints could be an environmental one: do they prefer noisy, polluting diesels or quieter, clean electrics?

Acknowledged that there will be some disruption from works, but the long-term gains are worth it.

Yes, but if you can head off any complaints first by writing a polite letter it's worth taking the time to do it, if it then means your team can turn up, do the job, and then move on to the next thing quicker than if they just rocked up and had to stop and answer every concern and questions while they're doing it.

 

[baz962]

Exactly. Look at Wixams Station Bedford. All that work that’s been done and pylons going in then part way through they’ve been told to stop as it’s going to be 4 platform instead of 2 so having to start it all again! Such a waste of money.

Universal Bedford theme park could get trains from Europe - mayor

Tom Wootton hopes station improvements could enable Eurostar trains to be accommodated.

www.bbc.com

Have they stopped. I heard they had on here and I saw no one there for a while. But last week I saw people working there again.

 

[Bald Rick]

To be honest, as I’ve said before, I won’t believe a word until spades are firmly in the ground.

Spades are in the ground. But as we know, spades in the ground can just be for ground investigations as I beleive is the case here.

I won’t believe it is happening until it is announced by a cabinet minister, and a budget for implementstion confirmed by Treasury. Neither of which have happened.

 

[Trainman40083]

Spades are in the ground. But as we know, spades in the ground can just be for ground investigations as I beleive is the case here.

I won’t believe it is happening until it is announced by a cabinet minister, and a budget for implementstion confirmed by Treasury. Neither of which have happened.

The way it might be being done is through the existing budget, rather than as a specific project. Had it been the latter, .I think we would have seen more constant progress, rather than stop/start.

 

[Bald Rick]

The way it might be being done is through the existing budget, rather than as a specific project.

The ‘project’ in funding terms is MML Electrification. Treasury grants funding in stages. As of now, it is not funded to implementation. What is being seen on the ground is not implementation.

 

[Edvid]

Now that OLE125 is complete, one workstream it didn't include was installing mechanically independent registrations for crossovers. Which makes me wonder why it was deemed necessary for Mk3b OLE on the GWML...

Have they stopped. I heard they had on here and I saw no one there for a while. But last week I saw people working there again.

Yes, they've stopped. A recent asset inspection video by Robin Morel shows the wires reregistered to 7 portals without the up slow being realigned to accommodate new platforms.

Fresh Wixams station plans will be part of the Universal SDO* application due for submission in the next month.

* Special Development Order

 

[InTheEastMids]

I meant “spades in the ground” more in relation to if/when the electrification itself gets properly authorised as opposed to preliminary work.

But yes, I agree that we need to know something absolutely definitive before believing that it’s going ahead.

I agree, I am not saying it can't be cancelled, but if I was Rachel Reeves and was minded to cancel it, I would have (at minimum) be leaning on Network Rail to delay work orders and quietly bring things to a standstill. As it is, there is a lot increasingly public activity that's been highlighted here (especially things like site compounds and letters to residents)

Stopping now simply reinforces the narrative about how politicians mess up infrastructure. Secondly, Rachel has just awarded Notts/Derby £2Bn quid. It's going to look like at least some of that is being paid for by cancelling MMLE. "Giving with one hand and snatching it back with the other... Betrayal" - Could get very embarrassing.

My optimistic best guess is final investment approval for Wigston - Sheet Stores, plus a more general re-commitment to MMLE that means design/enabling works further north continue.

The absolute highest level of optimism I can summon up
- accelerates MMLE ahead of what most of us are expecting
- supports Leicester and Sheffield capacity schemes (Progress on Midlands Rail Hub may also be good for Leicester, noting that Leicester missed out on the Notts/Derby £2Bn)
- Aspiration that electrification will be extended e.g. Sheffield-Leeds (this returns a quick win for people like Tracy Brabin without yet committing to funding anything meaningful).

Pessimistic is - justifiably:
- stop everything
- Let batteries do the work, so we don't have to.
- Funding set aside for each platform on the MML for a Chris Grayling Memorial Bench (subject to business case)

 

[Trainman40083]

I agree, I am not saying it can't be cancelled, but if I was Rachel Reeves and was minded to cancel it, I would have (at minimum) be leaning on Network Rail to delay work orders and quietly bring things to a standstill. As it is, there is a lot increasingly public activity that's been highlighted here (especially things like site compounds and letters to residents)

Stopping now simply reinforces the narrative about how politicians mess up infrastructure. Secondly, Rachel has just awarded Notts/Derby £2Bn quid. It's going to look like at least some of that is being paid for by cancelling MMLE. "Giving with one hand and snatching it back with the other... Betrayal" - Could get very embarrassing.

My optimistic best guess is final investment approval for Wigston - Sheet Stores, plus a more general re-commitment to MMLE that means design/enabling works further north continue.

The absolute highest level of optimism I can summon up
- accelerates MMLE ahead of what most of us are expecting
- supports Leicester and Sheffield capacity schemes (Progress on Midlands Rail Hub may also be good for Leicester, noting that Leicester missed out on the Notts/Derby £2Bn)
- Aspiration that electrification will be extended e.g. Sheffield-Leeds (this returns a quick win for people like Tracy Brabin without yet committing to funding anything meaningful).

Pessimistic is - justifiably:
- stop everything
- Let batteries do the work, so we don't have to.
- Funding set aside for each platform on the MML for a Chris Grayling Memorial Bench (subject to business case)

I am sure many might say £2bn for better public transport links between Derby and Nottingham was good use of money but what is wrong with them now? The Red Arrow is even getting new coaches this year. But I would think more people travel by train between Derby/Nottingham/Sheffield and Leicester.

 

[duffield]

I agree, I am not saying it can't be cancelled, but if I was Rachel Reeves and was minded to cancel it, I would have (at minimum) be leaning on Network Rail to delay work orders and quietly bring things to a standstill. As it is, there is a lot increasingly public activity that's been highlighted here (especially things like site compounds and letters to residents)

Stopping now simply reinforces the narrative about how politicians mess up infrastructure. Secondly, Rachel has just awarded Notts/Derby £2Bn quid. It's going to look like at least some of that is being paid for by cancelling MMLE. "Giving with one hand and snatching it back with the other... Betrayal" - Could get very embarrassing.

My optimistic best guess is final investment approval for Wigston - Sheet Stores, plus a more general re-commitment to MMLE that means design/enabling works further north continue.

The absolute highest level of optimism I can summon up
- accelerates MMLE ahead of what most of us are expecting
- supports Leicester and Sheffield capacity schemes (Progress on Midlands Rail Hub may also be good for Leicester, noting that Leicester missed out on the Notts/Derby £2Bn)
- Aspiration that electrification will be extended e.g. Sheffield-Leeds (this returns a quick win for people like Tracy Brabin without yet committing to funding anything meaningful).

Pessimistic is - justifiably:
- stop everything
- Let batteries do the work, so we don't have to.
- Funding set aside for each platform on the MML for a Chris Grayling Memorial Bench (subject to business case)

You can also add in the fact that setting up the new HQ for GBR in Derby while simultaneously cancelling electrification to and through Derby would turn the embarrassment factor up to maximum. That's real laughing stock territory.

 

[edwin_m]

I am sure many might say £2bn for better public transport links between Derby and Nottingham was good use of money but what is wrong with them now? The Red Arrow is even getting new coaches this year. But I would think more people travel by train between Derby/Nottingham/Sheffield and Leicester.

It's pretty vague but appears to involve extending the tram south westward to various places as far away as the airport, possibly with a spur up towards Derby. There's probably a thread about it somewhere else, and unless anyone is aware of any rail electrification being included then it's not relevant to this thread.

 

[tram21]

It's pretty vague but appears to involve extending the tram south westward to various places as far away as the airport, possibly with a spur up towards Derby. There's probably a thread about it somewhere else, and unless anyone is aware of any rail electrification being included then it's not relevant to this thread.

Could you link to that thread?

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Stopping now simply reinforces the narrative about how politicians mess up infrastructure. Secondly, Rachel has just awarded Notts/Derby £2Bn quid. It's going to look like at least some of that is being paid for by cancelling MMLE. "Giving with one hand and snatching it back with the other... Betrayal" - Could get very embarrassing.

You can also add in the fact that setting up the new HQ for GBR in Derby while simultaneously cancelling electrification to and through Derby would turn the embarrassment factor up to maximum. That's real laughing stock territory.

I do wonder if we are seriously over-estimating the political importance of MMLe to the mainstream here. How many actual 'normies' around the East Mids even know it's happening. They're all about to get new rolling stock on express services which will look good.

 

[Zomboid]

My prediction: Yes.

When? Don't know. With the 810s coming there's no immediate rush, but I think it'll happen eventually.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Friday at 22:06 ==

You can also add in the fact that setting up the new HQ for GBR in Derby while simultaneously cancelling electrification to and through Derby would turn the embarrassment factor up to maximum. That's real laughing stock territory.

It's not quite using a closed railway station in Manchester to announce the cancellation of the new railway to Manchester...

 

[Brubulus]

My prediction: Yes.

When? Don't know. With the 810s coming there's no immediate rush, but I think it'll happen eventually.

I'd also like to see Birmingham-Derby electrified for any future XC order alongside potentially enabling HS2 to Sheffield if a link is ever put in between HS2 and the XC route. HS2 services to Derby and Sheffield would be great and if this was done via a link to a refurbished South Staffordshire line, could be at a reasonable cost.

Though the best we can reasonably hope for in reality is for the line to be electrified to Sheffield, with a vague future ambition for further electrification.

 

[Zomboid]

Birmingham to Derby and Sheffield to Leeds are the kind of route which should be coming along in the medium term, to be ready for the replacement of the XC rolling stock. I won't be holding my breath for it though.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

If MML is wired it'll be the only stretch of 125mph railway without electrification left. I don't think any other country other than USA would have let that even be possible.