Stansted Airport to London Terminals via Any Permitted Route: is it valid on the Victoria Line?

[ninhog]

I’m hoping someone can offer an insight into the issue I experience this evening.

I had to get from London Victoria to Stansted Airport last Thursday, with my return journey today.

I purchased a return train ticket from a ticket office (image of the return portion attached) which was valid from London terminals to Stansted Airport via any permitted route.

I checked what this meant before I travelled and according to the National Rail website, the following applies:

Permitted routes cover all reasonable routes available for making your journey, including direct services and suitable connecting services.

When you book your journey online, any ticket offered at that time in connection with the journey planner results will be accepted as a permitted route.

The journey planner on the National Rail website offered the journey of London Victoria to Tottenham Hale via the Victoria Line and then a Stansted Express service from there.

On my outbound trip, I found that I couldn’t scan my barcode at the entrance to the Victoria Line, but I showed it to a member of staff on the gateline who allowed me through. Likewise, upon arrival at Tottenham Hale, I showed my ticket to the gateline staff and was allowed through.

On my way back this evening, the member of staff on the gateline at Tottenham Hale (and subsequently his colleagues, who came to confirm what he was telling me) refused to allow me through the barriers as he insisted my ticket wasn’t valid on the underground.

He was adamant that Tottenham Hale was a “terminal station” and that my ticket was only valid as far as there or onwards to Liverpool Street station.

I argued with him that Tottenham Hale certainly wasn’t a terminal station, but he was absolutely adamant.

As per the National Rail website, Tottenham Hale isn’t a terminal station.

I ended up using my bank card to tap in and out of the underground with.

Was my ticket valid on the underground or not and if it was, where do I go to complain and attempt to be reimbursed for the journey I paid for using my debit card?

 

[Hadders]

In short, your ticket was not valid on the Underground. If you were sold this ticket for a journey from London Victoria to Stansted Airport by the ticket office at Victoria then you really should complain to the operator of the ticket office who is Govia Thameslink Railway. The ticket you needed was from London Underground and DLR Zones 1-3 to Stansted Airport.

Tickets to/from London Terminals are only valid from the appropriate London Terminal, and Victoria is not an appropriate terminal for Stansted Airport. The appropriate London Terminal for this journey is Liverpool Street.

 

[yorkie]

Whether Tottenham Hale is a member of London Terminals or not (it isn't) is immaterial.

The ticket you should have been sold is London Underground Zones 1-3 to Stansted Airport.

This is correctly sold on our ticketing site, however as you have a staff travel pass, you'll need to buy from a ticket office.

If you told the ticket office you were travelling from Victoria, they should have sold the correct ticket, and can submit a complaint if you were mislead by them. However, if instead you just asked for it explicitly without stating your journey, then you have no complaints.

The National Rail Enquiries website is of very poor quality; did it definitely offer to sell a ticket from London Terminals for this journey with the stated itinerary, or could you have misinterpreted the results?

I'm not sure if you can get a PRIV discount on a ticket from London Underground Zones 1-3; if not, then the solution would be to specify an origin of (say) Clapham Junction. There is very little difference in the price anyway (£11.15 vs £11.55)

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[ninhog]

In short, your ticket was not valid on the Underground. If you were sold this ticket for a journey from London Victoria to Stansted Airport by the ticket office at Victoria then you really should complain to the operator of the ticket office who is Govia Thameslink Railway. The ticket you needed was from London Underground and DLR Zones 1-3 to Stansted Airport.

Tickets to/from London Terminals are only valid from the appropriate London Terminal, and Victoria is not an appropriate terminal for Stansted Airport. The appropriate London Terminal for this journey is Liverpool Street.

Thanks for your quick reply.

I’d actually bought the ticket at Luton station and I specifically requested the return journey between London Victoria and Stansted Airport.

When making a complaint, should I request reimbursement of my underground fare (which technically was due to be paid) or a partial cost of the ticket which I purchased?

 

[Benjwri]

When making a complaint, should I request reimbursement of my underground fare (which technically was due to be paid) or a partial cost of the ticket which I purchased?

You actually benefited financially from this, as you were allowed to travel on the outbound. Even travelling peak you only paid £3.80, whereas you would have paid £6.70 more for an Underground Zonal ticket than your London Terminals ticket. (In fact even if you had tapped in both directions, if you travelled in the underground off peak it would’ve been cheaper to tap)

Given this I would say it probably isn’t wise to be asking for any reimbursement. Focus your complaint on the incorrect ticket.

 

[drueberflug]

When making a complaint, should I request reimbursement of my underground fare (which technically was due to be paid) or a partial cost of the ticket which I purchased?

You could try, but be aware that your saving with a through ticket would've only been minimal (disregarding that your ticket was further discounted by a Staff Travel Card), and it may not be worth demanding that back even if they were to only refund the difference.

 

[ninhog]

If you told the ticket office you were travelling from Victoria, they should have sold the correct ticket, and can submit a complaint if you were mislead by them.

Yes, I specifically requested the journey from London Victoria to Stansted Airport.

The National Rail Enquiries website is of very poor quality; did it definitely offer to sell a ticket from London Terminals for this journey with the stated itinerary, or could you have misinterpreted the results?

No; I checked the journey on the journey planner and it definitely showed the route via the Victoria Line.

I'm not sure if you can get a PRIV discount on a ticket from London Underground Zones 1-3; if not, then the solution would be to specify an origin of (say) Clapham Junction. There is very little difference in the price anyway.

Frustratingly, I have a PTAC but my wife doesn’t (she was travelling with me so we both had the same ticket), which is why I thought I could gain the PRIV discount for both of us by doing it this way.

 

[drueberflug]

Frustratingly, I have a PTAC but my wife doesn’t (she was travelling with me so we both had the same ticket), which is why I thought I could gain the PRIV discount for both of us by doing it this way.

A LU Zone 1-3 to Stansted Airport Anytime Return fare seems to exist, but then, BR Fares sometimes shows fares which are not valid at all (e.g. Gold Card discounts on LNER only fares):

RETURN FARES
ANYTIME R SOR​	Route .​	Validity Outward: FIVE DAYS Return: ONE MONTH​	Adult PRIV £11.15​	Child CHPRV £4.00​	◊​
​ ​ Valid for one return Underground/DLR journey in London Zones 1–3​ Fare Setter: GREATER ANGLIA​

 

[Watershed]

No; I checked the journey on the journey planner and it definitely showed the route via the Victoria Line.

National Rail Enquiries would indeed suggest a journey from Victoria to Stansted using the Underground to Tottenham Hale - but the accompanying fare would not be from London Terminal. It would be a ticket from London Underground Zones 1-3. Therefore, the NRE itinerary doesn't really help you here.

A LU Zone 1-3 to Stansted Airport Anytime Return fare seems to exist, but then, BR Fares sometimes shows fares which are not valid at all (e.g. Gold Card discounts on LNER only fares):

Again, BR Fares is purely showing you what is in the fares data. Some Priv holders (those with 'safeguarded' facilities, i.e. pre-1996) can get a discount on fares to/from Underground Zonal destinations and would therefore be eligible to buy a fare such as the one you cite. Most, including the OP's wife as I understand it, are not eligible for discounts on such fares and therefore would not be allowed to buy or use such a fare.