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Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

SCDR_WMR

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With the plan supposedly being thus:

Euston-Tring/MKC: 730
Euston-Brum: 350
Euston-Crewe: 730
Brum-Liv: 350/730 depending on who you ask

...by service groups I meant those - i.e. are you going to have a problem keeping 730s and 350s apart if there is interworking between unit diagrams of Euston-Brum and other services.
I would hope that the Brum-Euston remain as 350 for that reason. Allows unit swaps much better.

The Euston Crewe will not be a problem as that's worked by the 2 main depots for the 730/2 anyway.

The Liverpool service I have concerns with, though diagrams already can support only 730 at my depot, that won't be the case for Wolves/New St.
 
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778

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The 730/2s should have been a different class altogether instead of a sub class. There are too many differences between the 2 sub classes for them both to be 730s. The 730/2s should really be 731s.
 

SCDR_WMR

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The 730/2s should have been a different class altogether instead of a sub class. There are too many differences between the 2 sub classes for them both to be 730s. The 730/2s should really be 731s.
Absolutely. The only thing I can think of is that they ordered them fully expecting to be 2 separate franchises by the point of delivery so that there was WMT 730 and LNR 730. Obviously a lot has happened that they couldn't have foreseen since they took over
 

pokemonsuper9

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The 730/2s should have been a different class altogether instead of a sub class. There are too many differences between the 2 sub classes for them both to be 730s. The 730/2s should really be 731s.
But what's the point, the 730/0 and 730/2 are about as similar as 458/4 and 458/5

- Different max speed
- Different length
 

tfw756rider

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The 730/2s should have been a different class altogether instead of a sub class. There are too many differences between the 2 sub classes for them both to be 730s. The 730/2s should really be 731s.
Before you posted this, I was actually thinking this.
 

778

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Absolutely. The only thing I can think of is that they ordered them fully expecting to be 2 separate franchises by the point of delivery so that there was WMT 730 and LNR 730. Obviously a lot has happened that they couldn't have foreseen since they took over
Are the 730/0s and 730/2s the only 2 subclasses on the railway that cannot work in multiple?
 

RealTrains07

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Just catching up with this... 36 new trains seems quite a huge fleet expansion. Does this mean we can expect more services, or much longer trains, or are lots of the 350's going to simply stop being used? I see references to possibly extending London-Crewe to Manchester and Stafford-Crewe to Manchester Airport in the future, but that's only going to require a few extra units - nothing like the quantity entering service.
36 5 car 730s replace 36 4 car 350/2s and (yes although they have already been replaced technically) the remaining 319s and the diagrams they all used to operate (except the abbey line)

So it is an expansion in some ways but not in others.
 

Pumbaa

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When all the TCMS updates are done they will be able to work in multiple. Likely only required for ECS, as the way they’ll be captive on different routes means it’s unlikely it’d ever happen.

One big plus of doing it this way round is a 730 is a 730 - there is (now) a combined course that covers both variants, and once trained a Driver or Guard can pick up either variant at any time.
 

tfw756rider

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When all the TCMS updates are done they will be able to work in multiple. Likely only required for ECS, as the way they’ll be captive on different routes means it’s unlikely it’d ever happen.

One big plus of doing it this way round is a 730 is a 730 - there is (now) a combined course that covers both variants, and once trained a Driver or Guard can pick up either variant at any time.
I was wondering about that, so there is an advantage - thanks :)
 

AJDesiro

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36 5 car 730s replace 36 4 car 350/2s and (yes although they have already been replaced technically) the remaining 319s and the diagrams they all used to operate (except the abbey line)

So it is an expansion in some ways but not in others.
It’s 37 350/2s, but that’s me being pedantic. What helps is that when a 10 car replaces a 12 car, that’s essentially 3 units replaced by two which makes it a ludicrous capacity increase.
 

pokemonsuper9

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It’s 37 350/2s, but that’s me being pedantic. What helps is that when a 10 car replaces a 12 car, that’s essentially 3 units replaced by two which makes it a ludicrous capacity increase.
Well a capacity increase seems deserved, and they'll need more if they are to run to Manchester.

They aren't purely replacing /2s, since they're also allowing for the others to form more 12 carriage services.


If we consider a 730/2 to be worth 1.5 350s, then it's an increase of 54 for 37 350 equivalents.
 

RealTrains07

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Well a capacity increase seems deserved, and they'll need more if they are to run to Manchester.

They aren't purely replacing /2s, since they're also allowing for the others to form more 12 carriage services.


If we consider a 730/2 to be worth 1.5 350s, then it's an increase of 54 for 37 350 equivalents.
Plus not forgetting they do replace the 319s diagrams as well. Its not just 350/2s they takeover from
 

DBS92042

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Ah I had forgotten, if I remember correctly I think they had 12 319s, making it then for 49 350 equivalents, so an increase of 5 350 equivements.
I believe, when all were still in service, LNR had 15 319s (319005/012/013/214/215/216/217/218/219/220/429/433/441/457/460)
 

AJDesiro

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Well a capacity increase seems deserved, and they'll need more if they are to run to Manchester.

They aren't purely replacing /2s, since they're also allowing for the others to form more 12 carriage services.


If we consider a 730/2 to be worth 1.5 350s, then it's an increase of 54 for 37 350 equivalents.
A 350/1 has 230 seats, a 730/2 has 406 seats. My maths puts that at at a roughly 76% increase in seats. So effectively, capacity-wise, a 730/2 is the equivalent of 1.76 350/1s, which is staggering, so it's effectively 63 350s!
 

Kite159

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A 350/1 has 230 seats, a 730/2 has 406 seats. My maths puts that at at a roughly 76% increase in seats. So effectively, capacity-wise, a 730/2 is the equivalent of 1.76 350/1s, which is staggering, so it's effectively 63 350s!
Just a shame they have too many seats decreasing legroom (according to @Bletchleyite ).
 

Silverlinky

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I believe, when all were still in service, LNR had 15 319s (319005/012/013/214/215/216/217/218/219/220/429/433/441/457/460)
This allowed a refurbishment program to take place on the 350/1's and 350/3's so some of those were not operating when the 319's were around, and neither were the 350/4's which only came along from TPE in 2019 and 2020
 

AJDesiro

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Just a shame they have too many seats decreasing legroom (according to @Bletchleyite ).
Legroom is on a par with a 350/1 in all fairness, these have a similar setup where the middle section has less legroom (still a bit more than a 350/1, I'm 6' and it was fine) than the carriage end sections (on a par with the 350/1 end sections). I don't wish to speak for @Bletchleyite, but from what I've seen he dislikes these since the airline seats on the end sections with more legroom don't have a very good window view (there is a view, but there's a bit of bulkhead).
 

Silverlinky

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Should be every 2 weeks or so. So 23rd all being well
23rd indeed, 2x5 formation planned as follows:

5Y32 0517 Bletchley CS to MKC (ECS)
2Y32 0532 Milton Keynes to Northampton
1Y04 0625 Northampton to London Euston
2K09 0739 London Euston to Milton Keynes
2K10 0900 Milton Keynes to London Euston
2T27 1024 London Euston to Tring
2T28 1115 Tring to London Euston
2K27 1209 London Euston to Milton Keynes
2K28 1330 Milton Keynes to London Euston
2T45 1454 London Euston to Tring
2T46 1545 Tring to London Euston
2T55 1634 London Euston to Tring
3A71 1731 Tring to London Euston (ECS)
2B71 1806 London Euston to Bletchley
5B71 1918 Bletchley to Bletchley CS (ECS)
 

778

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23rd indeed, 2x5 formation planned as follows:

5Y32 0517 Bletchley CS to MKC (ECS)
2Y32 0532 Milton Keynes to Northampton
1Y04 0625 Northampton to London Euston
2K09 0739 London Euston to Milton Keynes
2K10 0900 Milton Keynes to London Euston
2T27 1024 London Euston to Tring
2T28 1115 Tring to London Euston
2K27 1209 London Euston to Milton Keynes
2K28 1330 Milton Keynes to London Euston
2T45 1454 London Euston to Tring
2T46 1545 Tring to London Euston
2T55 1634 London Euston to Tring
3A71 1731 Tring to London Euston (ECS)
2B71 1806 London Euston to Bletchley
5B71 1918 Bletchley to Bletchley CS (ECS)
Does T and K mean Tring and Milton Keynes?
 

pokemonsuper9

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About a minute into the video the engineering director says that they are aiming to get 32 or 33 out of the 36 units in service every day. Does that seem overly optimistic?
32 of 36 is 88.88%, I think most modern units haven't had that avaliability.

On Allerton's weekday diagrams:
Class 331/0 - 16 are out and 3 are on exam. - 84% - There's also a 20th "AN903" brake test run, I assume this must be from one of the exam diagrams since there's only 19 units
Class 331/1 - 10 are out and 2 are on exam - 83%
 

Route115?

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It should be possible. At one stage when I was at Chiltern the 165s were diagrammed for 91% peak availability and they were DMUs. Obviously achieving that if units are in service all day will be harder and major overhauls and shortages of spares can be an issue but hopefully that will not be the case for 730s. Mind you 165s are not "modern" stock.
 

daniel97

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Apologies if answered earlier in the thread but there's so many pages I can't find what I'm after and don't know how to search a thread! What happened to the 730/1s? I noticed they're either the 730/0s or the 730/2s. Curious to know more than anything but not important!
 

Peter Mugridge

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Apologies if answered earlier in the thread but there's so many pages I can't find what I'm after and don't know how to search a thread! What happened to the 730/1s? I noticed they're either the 730/0s or the 730/2s. Curious to know more than anything but not important!
The order was changed; the 730/1 have become 730/2s. The volume of units for both sub classes was amended slightly as well.
 

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